Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,923,669 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,317,426
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » 40 Man Raids "We Love 'Em"

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
56 posts found
  FARGIN_WAR

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/12
Posts: 169

2/17/13 12:41:37 PM#21
Well I can't say that 40 man raids will be a big incentive for me to play the game. But I'm glad to see a company willing to give those that enjoy them the ability to do so, instead of just gutting them from the game as a matter of convenience.

If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  Xarko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 390

2/17/13 12:47:08 PM#22
Originally posted by Insane666

being an old scholl mmo'er i was disgusted by what could pass for being a raid theese days,,, one team encounter? its a raid!! say the new school devs,,,

 

while 40 ppl raid is definately a step (back) in the right direction for mmo's i wont start gigglin like a japaneese schoolgirl until i see some 100-200 ppl raids we were used to back in the day,,, uninstanced ones,,,

The more players in raid the simplier are mechanics in boss fights. So ye.. 100-200 ppl raids are pure zergfests I personaly dont find  enjoyable. I cant say Im very excited too see a comback of 40man raids eighter. For the same reason.

  GoldenArrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1142

2/17/13 12:51:33 PM#23

The amount of people doesn't really matter. The quality of the raid encounters is far more important.

Well designed and executed 5-man content is better than poorly done 20-man content.

Usually when raid size increases the room for error increases as well.

That's why I like content for less players.

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1647

2/17/13 12:52:48 PM#24

I have never done a 40 man raid but I to this day raid 24 man content in EQ2.  Keeping 24 people playing consistent days and focused for 3 hours at a time is a pain in the ass, I can't imagine what 40 would be like unless there was tons of redundancy at that point and it really didn't matter to much who you included after a point.

Do you have to fill all of those 40 slots with a specific class/build like we often have to in EQ2 or are 20+ of those slots filler where you can shove any body that can manage autoattack and joust when the red text tells them to?

I personally prefer dynamic scalling of raids.  From group size all the way up to whatever maxium the devs feel works but I also know that creates tons of loot issues and human ego's get bruised all so easy at the idea of "giving" good loot to people who don't "deserve" it.

 

  zimboy69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/08
Posts: 368

2/17/13 1:12:16 PM#25

all i remember of raiding  is

 

1/ the 1-2 hours waiting for people to turn up

2/the 3-4 hours of doing the raids

3/ the wipes and  doing the whole thing again

4/ the one drop you need which will double your dps/healing and somone else rolls  on it because it will impove there dps by 0.01 dps

5/getting kicked from a raid group because your dps is too low(because of above)

6/belonging  to guilds who helped tanks and  healers get there starting equipment only for them  to leave for bigger guilds

oh how much i love  doing raids

  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2129

2/17/13 1:14:45 PM#26
The problem with 40 man raids was just managing to get 40 people on at the same time in a guild. Guilds are so diverse now, and there aren't as many people in a guild unless they invite everyone under the sun. I felt like I was in an awesome guild when there was 30 people online once. I feel like it would just be incredibly difficult to get everyone on at the same time, with nobody calling out because of some issue and then on top of that getting everyone to last the entire way through the raid which tends to be pretty long.
  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2129

2/17/13 1:15:45 PM#27
Originally posted by zimboy69

all i remember of raiding  is

 

1/ the 1-2 hours waiting for people to turn up

2/the 3-4 hours of doing the raids

3/ the wipes and  doing the whole thing again

4/ the one drop you need which will double your dps/healing and somone else rolls  on it because it will impove there dps by 0.01 dps

5/getting kicked from a raid group because your dps is too low(because of above)

6/belonging  to guilds who helped tanks and  healers get there starting equipment only for them  to leave for bigger guilds

oh how much i love  doing raids

Back in wow when there was 40 man raids, there really was no dps counter. It was just knowing the fights and being with a guild. I don't think there was pugs of 40 mans ever, it was always a guild thing.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2840

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/17/13 1:30:13 PM#28
Originally posted by Panther2103
The problem with 40 man raids was just managing to get 40 people on at the same time in a guild. Guilds are so diverse now, and there aren't as many people in a guild unless they invite everyone under the sun. I felt like I was in an awesome guild when there was 30 people online once. I feel like it would just be incredibly difficult to get everyone on at the same time, with nobody calling out because of some issue and then on top of that getting everyone to last the entire way through the raid which tends to be pretty long.

This is one issue with large raids my other reason for not liking them is unbelievability.

 

What I mean by this is MMO gaming is an extension of my love of RPG table top Pen & Paper from the early 80's.  For over 30 years I have had this fascination with small group settings because of my love of D&D, at no point did I ever sit around the kitchen table with 39 of my closest friends raiding a dungeon for its vast treasures.  It was always less then 8 people that did this and to me it kept personal and intuitive. 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Nikopol

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

2/17/13 1:37:15 PM#29
Originally posted by Panther2103
Originally posted by zimboy69

all i remember of raiding  is

 

1/ the 1-2 hours waiting for people to turn up

2/the 3-4 hours of doing the raids

3/ the wipes and  doing the whole thing again

4/ the one drop you need which will double your dps/healing and somone else rolls  on it because it will impove there dps by 0.01 dps

5/getting kicked from a raid group because your dps is too low(because of above)

6/belonging  to guilds who helped tanks and  healers get there starting equipment only for them  to leave for bigger guilds

oh how much i love  doing raids

Back in wow when there was 40 man raids, there really was no dps counter. It was just knowing the fights and being with a guild. I don't think there was pugs of 40 mans ever, it was always a guild thing.

 

That would be nice, but WOW actually did have DPS counter add-ons quite early on in the raiding game, back in Molten Core. And if you were a DPS class, you did watch it closely. At least this was true for most raiding guilds I saw back then.

For what zimboy69 said, all of that did happen, but to me the fun parts far outweighed the annoying parts. Back in vanilla you had ZG which was 20-men, and even that felt too small-scale to me, though some encounters were arguably better.

What I'm thinking with WildStar is, as long as raiding is not "the" endgame, as long as there are other viable options with good fun and good rewards, great! Let's have big raids as well! But if raiding becomes the main form of endgame for all, that's going to turn off a lot of players as it did in vanilla WOW.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

2/17/13 1:39:31 PM#30
Originally posted by Roxtarr

I suppose with 17 ex-Blizzard employees on their team, it shouldn't be shocking that the game will have them.

In a recent interview with Curse, they asked Mike Donatelli (Wildstar Content Director) if they would include 40-man raids.  

His answer, "Love em or hate them ... we love them and YES we have every intention of putting them in our game".

Is the return of 40 man raids a good thing or not?  

I think, personally, that it helps guilds.  It seems as raids have gotten smaller and smaller, guild have had an increasingly difficut time sticking together.  I ran a 40 man guild and wouldn't mind seeing it comeback.

 

It depends on their definition of raiding. If you're talking about the 40 man cluster f*cks that I left behind in WoW then no. If you're talking about a raid of 40 split into squads of 10 storming like say a castle where the squads are tasked with bringing down their own mini boss in a wing of said castle to unlock a room for the final boss and then converging onto that final boss for the final showdown then that could be interesting. Especially if you make it dependent on how many players actually join the raid.

 

For instance 10 people enter the castle, then only the final boss and 1 mini boss generate. Twenty people enter, then the final boss and two mini bosses generate. The more people that enter the caslte then the more mini bosses that generate up to a max of four. And depending on the amount of players that actually finish the final battle it would move the raid to different loot tables.

 

Finish the final fight with 10-19  players in the raid and you get loot based off table D, finish with 20-29 move to table C, 30-39 table B and 40 table A. And like SWTOR everyone gets their own loot cache. Whether that's gear for their actual class, materials or tokens.

 

This way big guilds could continue to do their thing but it also gives smaller guilds and soloers a chance to experience raids. You know, actually promote socializing rather than elitism. You could have two guilds with 20 players each. Or 30 guildmates + a small 10 man guild. And you would see people inviting players from their friend's list or recruits since the final boss fight's difficulty would be adjusted for 10 people anyway. Only the loot table changes with the amount of raiders involved, thus making every person equally vital.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/17/13 1:47:47 PM#31
Originally posted by Insane666

being an old scholl mmo'er i was disgusted by what could pass for being a raid theese days,,, one team encounter? its a raid!! say the new school devs,,,

Waggle that phat cane with some mad menace, yo.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
2/17/13 2:20:31 PM#32
I would not mind seeing 40 man or more size raiding back, so long as it is more like a pure end-game feature, such as that they are rare to be released, with alot of time actually needed to be spent in them to complete them (also meeaning that you have a much longer reset timer to make it much easier to complete it such as a one month reset). While using smaller scaled content as the primary play content that fills your time between resets of the content. Also though i prefer the idea of making play slower atleast in leveling, content compeletion, as the longer it takes for us as players to comeplete said content the longer the devs have for creasting, as well as fine tuning the newer content to come as well as deal with other issues. I honestly have always felt that the new pace that game s push out content, and how they seem to even make te content much easier, leads to this fact of content being chewed thru at a lightning pace, and so making the devs actually push out content that could have used more testing. Also the longer you have between content releases the more content can be made in ways too.
  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2445

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

2/17/13 2:47:34 PM#33

I hated 40 man raiding in WoW. It took forever to get everyone ready, to the dungeon, buffed up, directions told, then get moving for the few scraps of loot you'd get to try and roll on. Doing those raids over and over to get your full suits only to have them replaced soon after you finally got them all sucked.

I did raiding all throughout WoW, for me it was boring, and annoying. I'm glad they'll have them in WildStar for those that may want to do them, but more and more the game is looking like it's not the game for me to buy. Too bad, housing actually looked pretty neat.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Abdiell

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/08
Posts: 102

2/17/13 3:36:33 PM#34
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.

So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed?  Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.

It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.

That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.

 

Now that you say that, I think you are right. WoW wasn't popular at all in Vanilla. Hell, they were barely hanging on....

 

Dude, they had millions of subscribers when basically the ONLY thing to do endgame was raid or try for High Warlord. Both of those things were very time consuming.

 

I will be the first to admit that I was an "elitist prick," but hell if I didn't deserve to be. I played the game a lot, and I played it well. There was an art to being effective in a raid back then. It took 40 people working together flawlessly to kill C'thun, and the feeling of accomplishment at seeing him die is unmatched in gaming for me. I ran around in full T3, and was the only hunter on my server to do so. 

 

With that being said, I had no problem recruiting hunters who had skill and desire, but not gear. I would take them to Ony or something, and see if they were worth my time. Almos all officers/class leaders I spoke to in my guild and others felt the same way. That meant that anyone with a drive to raid, COULD.

 

There is this great illusion that only a select few could raid back then. I found that most people that didn't raid, chose not to. There were very few that applied to all raiding guilds and were consistantly denied. Those few were truly talentless, or complete asshats. In either case, why should a game shift so drastically to accomodate the unskilled masses? It is obvious; money.

 

They dumb down the raids, start handing out wellfare epics, remove the pvp grind and all of the sudden they get another couple million 12 year olds and soccer moms to start playing. Large scale raids work just fine if you are not tryinfg to be a wow killer. It will absoultely alienate a section of the population that wants everythng easy mode. They are the gamers that always say " I play games to have fun, not wipe for 4 hours." That is code for "I suck dunkey nuts, and I want to be carried to my epics."

 

Its simple. Make 40 man raids difficult and rewarding, and make 5-10 man dungeons simple and less rewarding. It makes sense that the more work you put in, the more rewards you get out.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

2/17/13 3:39:48 PM#35

Backlash incoming. Remember how they wanted to do anything but WoW? and before the inevitable "wow copied it from eq!", EQ didn't have 40/25/20/15/10 mans...it was open world and open structured.

 

just another example though. pick on whoever you want on this site, but big talk is almost always just that, and does not hold up for long.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/18/13 5:42:38 AM#36
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.

So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed?  Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.

It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.

That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.

Now that you say that, I think you are right. WoW wasn't popular at all in Vanilla. Hell, they were barely hanging on....


Dude, they had millions of subscribers when basically the ONLY thing to do endgame was raid or try for High Warlord. Both of those things were very time consuming.

I will be the first to admit that I was an "elitist prick," but hell if I didn't deserve to be. I played the game a lot, and I played it well. There was an art to being effective in a raid back then. It took 40 people working together flawlessly to kill C'thun, and the feeling of accomplishment at seeing him die is unmatched in gaming for me. I ran around in full T3, and was the only hunter on my server to do so. 

With that being said, I had no problem recruiting hunters who had skill and desire, but not gear. I would take them to Ony or something, and see if they were worth my time. Almos all officers/class leaders I spoke to in my guild and others felt the same way. That meant that anyone with a drive to raid, COULD.

There is this great illusion that only a select few could raid back then. I found that most people that didn't raid, chose not to. There were very few that applied to all raiding guilds and were consistantly denied. Those few were truly talentless, or complete asshats. In either case, why should a game shift so drastically to accomodate the unskilled masses? It is obvious; money.

They dumb down the raids, start handing out wellfare epics, remove the pvp grind and all of the sudden they get another couple million 12 year olds and soccer moms to start playing. Large scale raids work just fine if you are not tryinfg to be a wow killer. It will absoultely alienate a section of the population that wants everythng easy mode. They are the gamers that always say " I play games to have fun, not wipe for 4 hours." That is code for "I suck dunkey nuts, and I want to be carried to my epics."

Its simple. Make 40 man raids difficult and rewarding, and make 5-10 man dungeons simple and less rewarding. It makes sense that the more work you put in, the more rewards you get out.

You're seeing what you want to see and not reading what's there. Either that or I've slighted your beloved game/gameplay and you're too affected to discuss this rationally. Your unrelated rant about welfare epics and your claim that the low raid participation is 'an illusion' are testament to that.

Nowhere did I say WOW wasn't doing well or didn't do well. People simply weren't doing raids, though. Only a small percentage of the playerbase had even seen raid content, which is why in TBC they introduced 25 and 10-man raids. Even then, they saw much higher participation in 10-man than in 25-man, which is why they have been constantly adjusting requirments and rewards for both ever since.

40-man raids went away because people simply weren't doing them.

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
 
OP  2/18/13 6:49:29 AM#37
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.

So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed?  Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.

It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.

That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.

Now that you say that, I think you are right. WoW wasn't popular at all in Vanilla. Hell, they were barely hanging on....


Dude, they had millions of subscribers when basically the ONLY thing to do endgame was raid or try for High Warlord. Both of those things were very time consuming.

I will be the first to admit that I was an "elitist prick," but hell if I didn't deserve to be. I played the game a lot, and I played it well. There was an art to being effective in a raid back then. It took 40 people working together flawlessly to kill C'thun, and the feeling of accomplishment at seeing him die is unmatched in gaming for me. I ran around in full T3, and was the only hunter on my server to do so. 

With that being said, I had no problem recruiting hunters who had skill and desire, but not gear. I would take them to Ony or something, and see if they were worth my time. Almos all officers/class leaders I spoke to in my guild and others felt the same way. That meant that anyone with a drive to raid, COULD.

There is this great illusion that only a select few could raid back then. I found that most people that didn't raid, chose not to. There were very few that applied to all raiding guilds and were consistantly denied. Those few were truly talentless, or complete asshats. In either case, why should a game shift so drastically to accomodate the unskilled masses? It is obvious; money.

They dumb down the raids, start handing out wellfare epics, remove the pvp grind and all of the sudden they get another couple million 12 year olds and soccer moms to start playing. Large scale raids work just fine if you are not tryinfg to be a wow killer. It will absoultely alienate a section of the population that wants everythng easy mode. They are the gamers that always say " I play games to have fun, not wipe for 4 hours." That is code for "I suck dunkey nuts, and I want to be carried to my epics."

Its simple. Make 40 man raids difficult and rewarding, and make 5-10 man dungeons simple and less rewarding. It makes sense that the more work you put in, the more rewards you get out.

You're seeing what you want to see and not reading what's there. Either that or I've slighted your beloved game/gameplay and you're too affected to discuss this rationally. Your unrelated rant about welfare epics and your claim that the low raid participation is 'an illusion' are testament to that.

Nowhere did I say WOW wasn't doing well or didn't do well. People simply weren't doing raids, though. Only a small percentage of the playerbase had even seen raid content, which is why in TBC they introduced 25 and 10-man raids. Even then, they saw much higher participation in 10-man than in 25-man, which is why they have been constantly adjusting requirments and rewards for both ever since.

40-man raids went away because people simply weren't doing them.

 

 

I agree that at the time that a very small percentage were doing raids (well, finishing them.)I'm not sure that dumbing them down was he answer.  Players consume content much faster now and it's much easier to communicate strategies these days.  Instead of making the challenge easier, I'm wondering if we all just needed to get better.  I was so new back then.  I, personally, am a much beter player now.  Maybe it's time to give it another shot.  

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/18/13 7:14:11 AM#38
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Abdiell
Originally posted by Loktofeit
It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.

So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed?  Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.

It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.

That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.

Now that you say that, I think you are right. WoW wasn't popular at all in Vanilla. Hell, they were barely hanging on....


Dude, they had millions of subscribers when basically the ONLY thing to do endgame was raid or try for High Warlord. Both of those things were very time consuming.

I will be the first to admit that I was an "elitist prick," but hell if I didn't deserve to be. I played the game a lot, and I played it well. There was an art to being effective in a raid back then. It took 40 people working together flawlessly to kill C'thun, and the feeling of accomplishment at seeing him die is unmatched in gaming for me. I ran around in full T3, and was the only hunter on my server to do so. 

With that being said, I had no problem recruiting hunters who had skill and desire, but not gear. I would take them to Ony or something, and see if they were worth my time. Almos all officers/class leaders I spoke to in my guild and others felt the same way. That meant that anyone with a drive to raid, COULD.

There is this great illusion that only a select few could raid back then. I found that most people that didn't raid, chose not to. There were very few that applied to all raiding guilds and were consistantly denied. Those few were truly talentless, or complete asshats. In either case, why should a game shift so drastically to accomodate the unskilled masses? It is obvious; money.

They dumb down the raids, start handing out wellfare epics, remove the pvp grind and all of the sudden they get another couple million 12 year olds and soccer moms to start playing. Large scale raids work just fine if you are not tryinfg to be a wow killer. It will absoultely alienate a section of the population that wants everythng easy mode. They are the gamers that always say " I play games to have fun, not wipe for 4 hours." That is code for "I suck dunkey nuts, and I want to be carried to my epics."

Its simple. Make 40 man raids difficult and rewarding, and make 5-10 man dungeons simple and less rewarding. It makes sense that the more work you put in, the more rewards you get out.

You're seeing what you want to see and not reading what's there. Either that or I've slighted your beloved game/gameplay and you're too affected to discuss this rationally. Your unrelated rant about welfare epics and your claim that the low raid participation is 'an illusion' are testament to that.

Nowhere did I say WOW wasn't doing well or didn't do well. People simply weren't doing raids, though. Only a small percentage of the playerbase had even seen raid content, which is why in TBC they introduced 25 and 10-man raids. Even then, they saw much higher participation in 10-man than in 25-man, which is why they have been constantly adjusting requirments and rewards for both ever since.

40-man raids went away because people simply weren't doing them.

I agree that at the time that a very small percentage were doing raids (well, finishing them.)I'm not sure that dumbing them down was he answer.  Players consume content much faster now and it's much easier to communicate strategies these days.  Instead of making the challenge easier, I'm wondering if we all just needed to get better.  I was so new back then.  I, personally, am a much beter player now.  Maybe it's time to give it another shot.  

We're talking about the size not ease of content. 'Dumbing down' a raid is actually immaterial, though, as that is the inevitable path of all raid content if by nothing else other than the gear-based progression pushed forward through raiding itself.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  QSatu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1768

2/18/13 3:12:48 PM#39
Sadly if the game is going to be raid or die then I probably won't even download it.
  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11795

2/18/13 3:27:03 PM#40
Originally posted by Rthuth434

Backlash incoming. Remember how they wanted to do anything but WoW? and before the inevitable "wow copied it from eq!", EQ didn't have 40/25/20/15/10 mans...it was open world and open structured.

prior to WOW,

EQ did limit their raids to max size of 72 with planes of power (2002)

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/07/23/everquest-slashing-raid-size-in-new-expansion/

 

will post more in a new topic

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search