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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » For a series known for its amazing PvE - why so focused on PvP for ESO?

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157 posts found
  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1751

2/17/13 3:18:51 AM#81
Originally posted by Margulis
Because it isn't really an elder scrolls game.  It's DAoC 2 with the elder scrolls ip slapped on to increase sales

I have similar feelings, which is kinda sad. I don't play pvp (more precisely I like player vs. player in shooters, boardgames, etc., but the so-called pvp in an mmo is pointless :) at least for me) so it's a letdown to hear them talking this much about the rvr endgame. I get it, they loved DAoC, but if they miss it so much they should make a DAoC2 then, and not botching an another IP with it :)

Still, it doesn't change that I love TES, played every one of them since Arena and I definitely will play TESO as well. And of course I will try to love it. But I'm sure if the gameplay will be contaminated with pvp I'll need to leave. It'd be sad to see the IP wasted like this. Let's hope they change the focus...

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/17/13 5:00:00 AM#82
"Spiritual Sucessor to DAoC" is still a plausible-sounding marketing bullet point, despite past failures.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5749

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/17/13 5:25:47 AM#83
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

Personaly I feel it has to do with that they want to go beyond that what we already have played in their singleplayer games.

An MMO can never outdo how story works compared to singleplayer games, so they try to create this familair world but where you actively can become a part of it due to how they are trying to impliment the way PVP works.http://tesozone.com/alliance-war

Of course I am not sure how it works out eventually, but it has my interest even though I aint much of a PVP player in MMO's atleast not the last several years.

  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 511

2/17/13 9:12:18 AM#84

I'm in the camp that speculate they hired Firor and he decided to make a DAoC-RvR clone with the Elder Scrolls lore on top.

 

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

2/17/13 10:48:17 AM#85
Originally posted by azarhal

I'm in the camp that speculate they hired Firor and he decided to make a DAoC-RvR clone with the Elder Scrolls lore on top.

I know.  I don't understand WHY they would do that, TES had many elements that would translate to MMORPGs.

  Rukushin

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 42

2/17/13 11:04:55 AM#86
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by azarhal

I'm in the camp that speculate they hired Firor and he decided to make a DAoC-RvR clone with the Elder Scrolls lore on top.

I know.  I don't understand WHY they would do that, TES had many elements that would translate to MMORPGs.

Exactly I agree and its rediculous. Focus more on the PvE aspect.

  emota

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 315

2/17/13 11:16:38 AM#87
Cry me a river! More PvP the better!!!!!
  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1457

2/17/13 11:18:01 AM#88
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

I think in part it's this feeling that you can't have a high profile MMO these days without big PVP and in part that they are still working on systems rather than quests and zones so PVP is easier to talk about than PVE content.  I think we will hear a lot more about PVE as they finsih writting the quests and filling the zoes.

We will have to see how PVP vs PVE plays out in this game.  I am not opposed to a big open PVP zone or two and open world PVP servers are fine but it would be a huge disservice to the game and it's fan's if PVE isn't the bread and butter focus of the game given TES's history and lore.  I also think PVP players are much more fickle about a game and since they have no tie to the world at all will up and jump ship from one game to another at the first sign of dissapointment.  Make a game rich in lore with interesting quests that is always growing and PVE players will stick around for years (I.E. TES games).  Easier said than done I know but I can't help but wonder if it would have been easier to accomplish if they where not dedicating so many resources to trying to shovel PVP into this universe?

It would be like CCP announcing they where shifting most of their resources to making quest lines and group content in EVE rather than PVP.  They would be stupid to do so given their player base.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1106

2/17/13 11:26:21 AM#89
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by azarhal

I'm in the camp that speculate they hired Firor and he decided to make a DAoC-RvR clone with the Elder Scrolls lore on top.

I know.  I don't understand WHY they would do that, TES had many elements that would translate to MMORPGs.

Firor has wanted to remake DAOC "his way" ever since he left Mythic, but couldnt because 1. Its IP is owned EA/Mythic (and I think Mark Jacobs still has some control), 2. He probably had a 5+ year No Compete clause, and 3. Its TOO HARD to write your own Original IP

Enter The Elder Scrolls whos IP is 1. Popular, 2. Medieval Fantasy, and 3. if twisted, smashed and hacked could be made to resemble a DAOC game style

What I dont really understand is why Bethesda/Howard would let Firor do it.

My guess is that Howard is treating TESO as a "spin-off" (ie- Redguard and Battlespire) of the Elder Scrolls Series and doesnt care much either way.

If TESO succeeds great, more publicity for him and ES.

If it fails, oh well. He still owns the IP and the ability to create real ES games.

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/17/13 11:28:40 AM#90
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Mardukk

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there

 And the people in charge of this game did it OFTEN in DaoC, so much so that my guild and I walked away from the game...that was almost 400 people that got so sick of them dropping massive nerf hammers, many of them wasnt even on our realm, but we walked when the Hibernia protests started taking place...and we were in Midgard...it was a case of enough is enough...and that there was better PvP in other games anyway.

lol... oh the op realm. What... you quit when they stopped groups of 1 skald and 7 warlocks from insta dumping 3 bubbles each killing ANYTHING on their path?

Please cry me a river about nerf hammers on midgard... seriously.

Stop making bad publicity when you were obviously a bad player - and by your other posts, any daoc player can tell you didnt play enough.

 Highlighted for everyones pleasure.

When you learn how to read and comprehend...post again...but I do thank you for proving you are yet another in a long line of carebears that thought DaoC PvP was great because it made you look as if you could do it with its awesome /follow, CCs and zergs which took the skill out of it.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 661

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

2/17/13 12:07:06 PM#91
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Inktomi
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

 

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

True, past performance is not indicative of future results. But there is $x.xx of dollars waiting on this game. They release I will invest into them and give it a go. It turns out to be another...what was it...tortanic? I lose a couple of bucks. 

I didn't lose a dollar on Star Wars, The Secret World and countless other over-hyped duds that have rolled down this mmorpg.com pipe. I am willing to put my rep behind TESO though.

 

Well, glad you are Ink.

The point I was making though was simply a trusted dev, lots of money, and a much loved brand do not always add up to a good game, so citing them at this point as a reason why it's gonna be great is a bit premature.

The chances are TESO will be a solid offering and appeal to a decent amount of people, though sadly I won't be one of them for different reasons. I actually hope it won't be another SWTOR tbh... this industry needs more succes and diversity all round.

 

(Tips hat) Thank you, kind Sir. Sadly, you will not be joining us. While no game is ever perfect, especially at launch, I will be hanging in there with the rest of the crowd on release day. For whatever reasons you cannot play TESO, wishing you the best of luck in all of your gaming endevours.

~Ink

  Crazyhorsek

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 215

2/17/13 12:36:13 PM#92
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Mardukk

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there

 And the people in charge of this game did it OFTEN in DaoC, so much so that my guild and I walked away from the game...that was almost 400 people that got so sick of them dropping massive nerf hammers, many of them wasnt even on our realm, but we walked when the Hibernia protests started taking place...and we were in Midgard...it was a case of enough is enough...and that there was better PvP in other games anyway.

lol... oh the op realm. What... you quit when they stopped groups of 1 skald and 7 warlocks from insta dumping 3 bubbles each killing ANYTHING on their path?

Please cry me a river about nerf hammers on midgard... seriously.

Stop making bad publicity when you were obviously a bad player - and by your other posts, any daoc player can tell you didnt play enough.

 Highlighted for everyones pleasure.

When you learn how to read and comprehend...post again...but I do thank you for proving you are yet another in a long line of carebears that thought DaoC PvP was great because it made you look as if you could do it with its awesome /follow, CCs and zergs which took the skill out of it.

I think you mean /stick, not /follow - every game has /follow.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/17/13 1:32:50 PM#93
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Mardukk

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there

 And the people in charge of this game did it OFTEN in DaoC, so much so that my guild and I walked away from the game...that was almost 400 people that got so sick of them dropping massive nerf hammers, many of them wasnt even on our realm, but we walked when the Hibernia protests started taking place...and we were in Midgard...it was a case of enough is enough...and that there was better PvP in other games anyway.

lol... oh the op realm. What... you quit when they stopped groups of 1 skald and 7 warlocks from insta dumping 3 bubbles each killing ANYTHING on their path?

Please cry me a river about nerf hammers on midgard... seriously.

Stop making bad publicity when you were obviously a bad player - and by your other posts, any daoc player can tell you didnt play enough.

 Highlighted for everyones pleasure.

When you learn how to read and comprehend...post again...but I do thank you for proving you are yet another in a long line of carebears that thought DaoC PvP was great because it made you look as if you could do it with its awesome /follow, CCs and zergs which took the skill out of it.

I think you mean /stick, not /follow - every game has /follow.

 indeed...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  zethcarn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 1555

2/17/13 3:55:52 PM#94
I believe the trailer created all this hype about PvP.  I believe there will be way more PvE content than you anticipate.
  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

2/17/13 5:23:33 PM#95
Explain why they should even bother making a solely PvE focused MMO when their single player games already meet that demand perfectly?
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/17/13 5:29:15 PM#96
Originally posted by redcapp
Explain why they should even bother making a solely PvE focused MMO when their single player games already meet that demand perfectly?

 Explain why they should take an IP that is already a RPG and make it into an MMO that is absolutely nothing like the RPG outside of the look and names of places when MMOs exist that are far closer to what the IP is?!?

It would be like taking Half Life, ,make an online game and calling it Half Life but making it a melee combat sidescroller.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

2/17/13 5:51:26 PM#97

To state the obvious, the Elder Scrolls series was PVE only because it was a single player game... Hard to do PVP by yourself 

Of course it is known for good PVE--that's the only type of gameplay it had.

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/17/13 6:24:23 PM#98
Originally posted by Iselin

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 There seems to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum kissing developers bottoms no matter the design for one reason, IMHO, boils down to being massive DaoC fans that knows the game sucked so much it will never be made and so they dont care how they get something like, they will take it, even going so far as to say that anyone against the game must BLAH BLAH BLAH HURKA DURR DERP DURP...

which is why even when people point out how MMOs have been made more like TES, they even say things like quoted above, gotta protect that outdated craptastic DaoC style gameplay!

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

2/17/13 6:33:01 PM#99
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Iselin

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 There seems to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum kissing developers bottoms no matter the design for one reason, IMHO, boils down to being massive DaoC fans that knows the game sucked so much it will never be made and so they dont care how they get something like, they will take it, even going so far as to say that anyone against the game must BLAH BLAH BLAH HURKA DURR DERP DURP...

which is why even when people point out how MMOs have been made more like TES, they even say things like quoted above, gotta protect that outdated craptastic DaoC style gameplay!

Another example of IP zealotry at work... Maybe you'll save TES from itself if you rage hard and often enough, you think?

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/17/13 8:14:37 PM#100
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Iselin

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 There seems to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum kissing developers bottoms no matter the design for one reason, IMHO, boils down to being massive DaoC fans that knows the game sucked so much it will never be made and so they dont care how they get something like, they will take it, even going so far as to say that anyone against the game must BLAH BLAH BLAH HURKA DURR DERP DURP...

which is why even when people point out how MMOs have been made more like TES, they even say things like quoted above, gotta protect that outdated craptastic DaoC style gameplay!

Another example of IP zealotry at work... Maybe you'll save TES from itself if you rage hard and often enough, you think?

 Another example of fanboy zealoty at work...Maybe you'll save TESO from itself if you blindly defend hard and often enough, you think?

amidoinitrite?

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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