Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Thane

as said before....

i don't see how you can think that 20% of the whole map would be a pvp focus.

 

maybe add some arguments to your theorie? WHY do you think this game would have a pvp focus?

80% of the map being pve is hardly a pvp focus. maybe you just dont like pvp? no idea

Faction locked races to enable the PvP design they want. Removes TES freedom of choice and PvE being available to all races in all locations.

Faction locked regions to re-inforce the PvP design they want. PvE exploration of the 'entire continent of Tamriel' imposible.

The central hub and 'end game' is PvP. If PvP wasn't their main focus then the central location of the map, and the fight for the crown, wouldn't be 'end game'. hell, you could have had the fight for the crown as a PvE event if you wanted. Literally speaking the game revolves around PvP.

Is that enough 'focus' for you?

I think that if they wanted to focus on pvp they would allow everybody access to all map with full pvp. What we have here is just them trying to cater to both sides of the comunity - pvers and pvpers. Offcourse pure pvpers and pure pvers can see it as focusing on the other side.

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Originally posted by superpata
I think knowing whether they force pvers/crafters to participate in pvp for that "endgame pve" type of content (whatever that might be), will say a lot about it.

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aww then may be it's not a game for me.

just BTW: if PvE is for girls, PvP must be for boys who can't find said girls.=XD joke to meditate.

Originally posted by cura

I think that if they wanted to focus on pvp they would allow everybody access to all map with full pvp. What we have here is just them trying to cater to both sides of the comunity - pvers and pvpers. Offcourse pure pvpers and pure pvers can see it as focusing on the other side.

PvP and RvR is slightly different.  They didn't add wPvP options (meaning you could choose to do it or not) because they wanted ALL PvP to be funneled into Cyrodiil via RvR.

It seems like they are making more of a niche game rather than something for everyone.

Originally posted by Incomparable

Originally posted by Vesavius

I am very much confused myself about this... TES has never never been about PvP. It's a strange route for them to take, and one which might look popular among the vocal PvP gobshites of the internet world but one that might actually split their wider core audience of the series.

 

I can only think it's because;

• They want to appeal to what they consider to be the populist market
• The devs are stuck in the lazy increasingly outdated mindset of MMO = PvP
• PvP is cheap filler content that keeps the monkeys happy flingling poo at each other

 

I'm not sure though. What I am sure of is that the focus on this playstyle, amongst other issues, has killed any inyterest I have in the title. 

Mmos are made for a group of different play styles. They can't please everyone and in trying to also make some thing others don't like.

If its an Mmo, it has to have pvp, or it might as well stick to its niche market.

Well, I am a strong advocate for niche design. I hate the 'all things to all men' design philosophy and think it has a lot to do with the less than stellar games we have been seeing.

The biggest mistake this game can make, IMO, is chasing what it sees as a broader MMO market and alienating a lot of it's core player base that don't enjoy PvP.

Look it doesn't seem like it's a PVP focus. It is. Someone pulling numbers out and saying 75% of the map is pve is someone who never played DAOC and got to emain and RVR.

The lore is being butchered and you do have that feeling that they are forcing DAOC RVR on it without making some serious considerations.

I mean just look at the trailers and the logo with the three heads in a circle. I'm sure if you made part of it orange, pink and green you could make the muppets with Kermit, Piggy and Beaker.

Originally posted by Zefire

You re out of your mind

The series are all about single player experience as bethesda has never released an mmo before.

Additionally pve is for girls

So much genius, in so little a sentence.

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We know so little of the game.  Only a couple of classes have been partially revealed.  Much of how the game will be balanced is still unknown.  How can you say they are focusing on PvP as the main selling point at this time?

If it is like any other MMO, this game will be 80% PvE content.

There are a ton of people in WoW that are PvP only, but Blizzard's focus is clearly on PvE.  So if there's a focus on PvP, then there can be tons of people in ESO that will PvE.

I personally don't really like PvP (I must be a girl lol), however, DAoC was the ONLY game that I ever PvP'd much in.  In WoW, I have a Druid, Warlock, Warrior, and Hunter that I've had since the first month it was released, and I think between them, I only have like 200 honorable kills lol

Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

Y'know what? I don't really care. I don't care about the PvE, the PvP or the .0025% of the world I can or cannot PvP on. I just really want to play the game. It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

Zenimax has to appeal to a very diverse crowd that has followed this brand, if not blindly, for years. So yeah, they have to appeal to the crafters, the min-max mages, the two-handed hack-it-all's-gonna-melt-your-face-with-my-axe and the duel-wielding-quest-grinding-flower-picking crowd that has sprung from every river run through Nirn. That is why PvP is going to be part of TESO, in my humble opinion.

What is the music of life?

Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

 

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

True, past performance is not indicative of future results. But there is $x.xx of dollars waiting on this game. They release I will invest into them and give it a go. It turns out to be another...what was it...tortanic? I lose a couple of bucks. 

I didn't lose a dollar on Star Wars, The Secret World and countless other over-hyped duds that have rolled down this mmorpg.com pipe. I am willing to put my rep behind TESO though.

What is the music of life?

PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

Originally posted by Eletheryl

You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

This is RvR, which is a subsection of PvP.  They don't have world PvP or PvP matches which would be a large chunk of that 'insanly huge" PvP population.

Originally posted by Karteli

PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

 

PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

 

PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

 

Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

 

My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

PvP doesnt discriminate... If you know the insides and out of the charater your playing an your foe just as equally, knowing the habits of foe and timing.. you can defeat your opponent.

However PvE, going against a controlled AI knowing the insides and outs of the Bosses abilities you can win BUT you still have to deal with the politics and rules set up by the guild that is running the raid... thus creating situations where one could win the roll for an item but still NOT gain said item.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Eletheryl

You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

This is RvR, which is a subsection of PvP.  They don't have world PvP or PvP matches which would be a large chunk of that 'insanly huge" PvP population.

Subsection? Are you crazy? First realms go to war, then you are sent to fight that war.

First RvR, then PvP. RvR = mass people vs mass people, then PvP - player vs player

Oh and those laughable "arena" matches you speak of... that shouldnt even take place, unless they make a Colosseum somewhere and it should not be "queued" you should shit down and await your turn. We actually used to do this in DAoC... and it was all player-organized and everybody respected it... members from all three realms would sit in a pre-determinded region in the frontiers and wait their turn while others were having their fight inside the "ring". Or you could just go there and watch... but that takes a bit more mature audience to pull this off, since, again, it was all player organized.

Anyway RvR is at the top of the "pvp hierarchy" because its not about you, but about your faction as a whole. Stop thinking about yourself or what you can get from it - think bigger...

“Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

 

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

 

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

Zenimax (Media) owns Bethesda, Arkane, Id and Zenimax Studios. The TES IP is all owned under one roof. So the powers that be at the top of Zenimax will probably not want their online version of the game released* without the same level of quality that the SP games were made.

Originally posted by Inktomi

Originally posted by Distopia

 

Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

Zenimax (Media) owns Bethesda, Arkane, Id and Zenimax Studios. The TES IP is all owned under one roof. So the powers that be at the top of Zenimax will probably not want their online version of the game released* without the same level of quality that the SP games were made.

I certainly would hope so, my point was about the lack of similarities between the TOR situation and this one. To be specific i do not think a failure here would come back to haunt the TES franchise as a whole, i think that's half the reason they've created a studio as they have, not to mention why Beth-soft themselves did not create an MMO.