Originally posted by dave6660

Has anyone ever heard the expression, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?  Or do parents even teach that anymore?

That is before the age of plentiful, and the most precious commodity is human attention span.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by dave6660

Has anyone ever heard the expression, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?  Or do parents even teach that anymore?

That is before the age of plentiful, and the most precious commodity is human attention span.

I'll take that as a "no".

Originally posted by dave6660

Has anyone ever heard the expression, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?  Or do parents even teach that anymore?

No, apparently parents now teach their kids the expression "when you are given a horse, complain that it's not fast enough and demand a free sports car".

I don't complain. If I don't like something, and it's important enough to discourage my game play...then I just stop playing.

It's the developer's game. It's their vision. They have the metrics to determine what they need to do or change. Why players think their little "ideas" are helpfull is a mystery to me. What qualifications to they have in game design?  Are they thinking about the game long-term or just because some Rogue killed them in PvP? And with hundreds of thousand of "ideas"...is it even realistic that a developer can really "listen" to the community?

Voted yes mostly because once the game decides to go FTP, it is welcoming all players.

Meaning now the game is FTP so every single player has a right to respond to the game they are playing. The only players don't dont deserve the right to complain are trial players, you are just testing the game so don't complain about it. While free players are commiting to the game.

Originally posted by ignore_me
Do F2P game makers want people to play?

No they want them to pay  so anything that makes a person who is playing entirely free complain is a great thing, provided said complaint goes away if the complainer coughs up some dough.

Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR

Originally posted by ignore_me
Do F2P game makers want people to play?

No they want them to pay  so anything that makes a person who is playing entirely free complain is a great thing, provided said complaint goes away if the complainer coughs up some dough.

I see what youre saying Moronie, but I just think that you make the first move when you put something out there. To expect no input after that seems a bit ridiculous. Especially if it's a business.

So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.

If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.

And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player.  Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.

Originally posted by bcbully

Simple question inspired by the "Free players get what they deserve" thread.

 

I'll weigh in on this one. No they do not. 

 

 

 

My question is:

are f2p players those without subs and not paying a dime?

or f2p players who spend some money in the cash shop but not as much as a sub?

or f2p players that spend as much in cash shop as subs?

how about f2p players that spend more money in the cash shop than a sub player?

So, before I can answer the question, which of the f2p players are you referring to?

Even not knowing that information, I can say, if I were a developer, I would take f2p criticism seriously, because I am trying to entice them to spend some money; the more enjoyable my game is to that player, i.e. the less complaints they have, the more money they may be willing to spend in the cash shop.

I can also say, if I were a developer, I would be most interested in minimizing the number of people who aren't spending money, by creating a game that makes people feel good about purchasing items in the cash shop.

I'll turn the question around on you:

does a f2p player who spends more in the cash shop than you do on your sub have more rights to complain than you?

Originally posted by ignore_me
Do F2P game makers want people to play?

They obvious don't want everyone to pay. Otherwise, there will be no F2P games.

What they want is more total profits. Who and how many are paying is not that relevant.

Originally posted by jedensuscg

So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.

If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.

And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player.  Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.

Let me see if I understand this...

People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".

People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.

Originally posted by Superman0X

In Asia upwards of 10% may pay for a game. In the western markets, it is more like 5%. F2P developers/publisers realize that the vast majority of players are NEVER going to pay anything for the game. Because they except that, they cater to the 5-10% that are going to pay, and provide them with the goods and services that will cover the cost of the game.

 

Feedback from free players is just general feedback on the game. It has merit, but may not have relevance. Feedback from the paying players has relevance, as they are the lifeblood of the game. Free players are needed to provide the MMO atmosphere and content that draws the paying players. The more active and engaged free players you have, the more likely you are to draw in those paying players.

 

Life is never going to be fair for the free players. The paying players will always have it better (that is what they are paying for). Complaints about this imbalance may be valid, but they are not really relavant. They only become relevant when the imbalance becomes too large and it causes a decrease in the free players (which will eventually cause a decrease in the paying players).

 

A good F2P game keeps the game imbalanced just enough to justify the money that the paying players are spending, but not enough to drive away the free players.

What kind of F2P games are you talking about ? I think that the amount of free to paying customers varies a lot from game to game but also what model is on offer. I have played two hybrid models extensively and to me it seemed that as a rough estimate the majority of players do not pay anything (60%-70% in ToR let's say), but they also do not get above a certain level.

At higher levels, I have had a hard time finding totally free players in ToR, in fact I can't recall seeing any so far beyond level 40. The amount of players seems to go down a lot when I compare Hoth (Imp side) to Korriban. By Hoth, almost everyone has paid something because they have legacy and other titles in their name. In contrast, most players have no titles on Korriban. I would guess that one in five players there have paid something just as a ballpark figure. Most players are low level as in under level 25. I noticed that totally free players virtually disappear by the time one gets to Tatooine.

In EQ2, it is harder to tell. I guess I could do a study to find out over the course of several months who is paying a sub, who has paid à la carte, and who is completely free, but that is a lot of work. All I can say is that from my experience, most totally free players do not get beyond mid-game before they either stop or pay something, even if it is for a Silver membership. I am guessing it is not too dissimilar from ToR.

Those are the only two hybrid games I have played. However, in GW2, which is B2P, if we take people who have paid nothing more than box price, I think the numbers would shoot way up to around your figure for Western players. I don't know of many people who have paid extra money on GW2.

It would be interesting to get better figures across many games to get a better idea of this.

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by jedensuscg

So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.

If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.

And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player.  Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.

Let me see if I understand this...

People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".

People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.

Emphasis on the highlight LOL!

But the F2P scheme relies on the few paying customers forking alot of money out to carry the whole game.  Paying customers carry the entire playerbase.  That is undeniable.

Who's word is more important?  The guy that pays you money?  Or the guy that doesn't?  I dunno...

I am quite happy they come on here and complain, I do not think they should complain on official forums, but does not bother me really. Only when they complain ingame in chat, that is taking the piss a bit.

No real reasoning behind this, the farce of someone who is paying nothing and complaining just seems more immediate when you are online I guess. :)