Originally posted by cybertrucker

So as the title asks. We have seen a game launch now that tried to break the mold and offer us a game that didn't rely on the holy trinity. Some like it some don't.. So how does everyone here feel that has tried a non holy trinity game? Do yu think games are better  with the trinity or witha massive hybrid system like GW2 offered or something close to it..Vote and discuss below.

 

For me it all depends on the game. However; I also feel like we should have a choice and not just be subjected to one option. I like the hybrid some days and some days I want the trinity... That's just me though

I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.

I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.

Thank god it's gone.

The old trinity of tank, healer and dps is gone, it was boring and it's outdated.

There are still class roles however, both in MMORPGSs like GW2 and in MOBA: things like support, damage, CC, etc

These new roles show that gameplay has become more complex and more skill-based.

Let's face it, tank aggro mechanics, healing being just pressing frames and making the green bar go up, damage being just a matter of playing simon-says with a few buttons (or more usually a naga macro) - all this stuff is old, and it's crap gameplay.

Games like WoW are dinosaurs now, played by kids and the immature adults who can't move on.

The real games that gamers play are things like LoL, DOTA, GW2, etc - games that have done away with outdated RPG mechanics and are more skill-based, more flexible and ultimately much deeper. And without 36 hotkeys either.

Originally posted by EsLafiel

I like gw2 system, however for most it a zerg. Because 2 reasons,

 

First with their system it is possible to work together, hell you can do really awesome things if done right. With 2 Mesmers you can keep all buff perma up, if done right.  However, because their no YOU MUST DO THIS,,,, people get confuse and so it turn into a zerg. Since it take's a lot more communication to do team work in gw2. Which only people who have teamspeak and know each other well can do it right.

 

Second they made dgns and such way to freaking easy, and so it not needed and when something not needed people dont use it.  Dgn are to the point that a fullly dps team, with no support are tanking abilities can beat them.

Hell I can solo multy dgns and I know a dps warrior that can solo dgns.

So this is a major problems, now the higher lvl fract can make it where a team gotta use some teamwork to beat it. However, those are the only things.  This needs to be fix, make it where dgns are extrmely hard. At first people will cry and some will elave the game. However, team work among the players will start to apper.

i have to agree with this guy !

getting out of the gameplay the holy trinity its like moving the limits from the sky to the stars ..! just the trinity it was good back 10 years but now i cant accept a designer who sticks on that formula ...

about GW2 they have done nice work and i appreciate their expirement, of course it has its flaws and some dungeons are really scrapped but theior core mechanic its awesome, and here you just mentioned 2 mesmers cooperate, have you get an engineer who plays with bombs which heals ??? or i play in Aurora Glade, and sometimes i WvW with a guild called Furious cookies and we have gone many times 15-20 guys against double enemies ... and i am not any pro player

with the trinity system the whole game would be boring, i cant play games based on the trinity system and on the forced roles ..

Originally posted by Greyhooff

The real games that gamers play are things like LoL, DOTA, GW2, etc - games that have done away with outdated RPG mechanics and are more skill-based, more flexible and ultimately much deeper. And without 36 hotkeys either.

Don't forget D3. D3 has very much varying mechanics. Wizard that freeze-stun mobs. Witch doctors that summon zombie dogs and constantly blowing them up (no i am not kidding .. this is the zero dog build .. you just keep summoning and destorying them). Barb that wizz around in a whirlwind.

What I don't like about the trinity is that you get stuck in your role. The GW2 system seemed to try and free people from playing a certain part only, and that is something that seems to go against the collective MMORPG DNA these days.

I hate playing a one trick pony though, it makes the battles too predictable. The chaos of GW2 is certainly hard to get used to, but at least they tried something different.

Strickly talking aboue PvE, my problem with GW2 is it's not balance.

And since there is no "holy trinity" everyone should be the same efficient wise.  Everyclass should "be able" to tank the same, dps the same, defense the same, support the same.  Else there will always be class that are favored for certain dungeon.

I think everyone know by now, dps warrior is by far the best class to have in speed farm.  And guardian is by far the best class for harder dungeon because of their defensive ability.

Even though other class may potentially having high dps or very surival, they just don't have warrior's ability to buff their teamates, and guardians' ability to help their teamates defensively at the same time.

The trinity system is better than what GW2 has. Actually, having played MMORPG's since 2002, I have no idea why people call it the trinity system, since there's actually several roles. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Magic DPS, Buffer, Healer, Controller. Those roles were typically filled in every group in MMO's pre-WoW. When WoW came out, it combined many of those roles to narrow down the amount of people needed and for 1v1 balance sake.

That's my roundabout way of saying that GW2 didn't eliminate the need for the "trinity." The game still requires players to fill certain roles in each group. People act like what they're doing wasn't being done with the trinity. People are more self aware of controlling and supporting now, but you always had those jobs in other MMORPG's, it's just games like WoW made it pointless to try since you could just aoe dps everything down in mere seconds.

Originally posted by nate1980

The trinity system is better than what GW2 has. Actually, having played MMORPG's since 2002, I have no idea why people call it the trinity system, since there's actually several roles. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Magic DPS, Buffer, Healer, Controller. Those roles were typically filled in every group in MMO's pre-WoW. When WoW came out, it combined many of those roles to narrow down the amount of people needed and for 1v1 balance sake.

That's my roundabout way of saying that GW2 didn't eliminate the need for the "trinity." The game still requires players to fill certain roles in each group. People act like what they're doing wasn't being done with the trinity. People are more self aware of controlling and supporting now, but you always had those jobs in other MMORPG's, it's just games like WoW made it pointless to try since you could just aoe dps everything down in mere seconds.

Unfortunately WoW killed any CC need during WotLK and shortly before. Buffs became standard and most classes had similar buffs for support, so it pretty much became a trinity.

I never had any issues with the trinity.  I don't know why it was ever under siege.  It still allowed for 'in between'  classes for those who didn't want to be one of the three.  GW2 seems to work fine without it, but it makes for melee battles that don't have much strategy as far as I'm concerned.  It's just a zerg IMO.  The trinity allowed groups to play together as a team, and provided a bit more strategy as far as I'm concerned, since you had to keep people alive, or keep away the monsters from the squishies.

To each his own, but my vote goes to the trinity.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Originally posted by Osias000

I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.

I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.

You should realize that without trinity your role in combat can be much greater than just healing. In gw2 you can finish the boss without help if you play perfect. I did so myself and was quite proud of saving the party from a wipe. In a healer/tank setup you are powerless if your companion dies to his mistake.

Originally posted by Aison2

Originally posted by Osias000

I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.

I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.

You should realize that without trinity your role in combat can be much greater than just healing. In gw2 you can finish the boss without help if you play perfect. I did so myself and was quite proud of saving the party from a wipe. In a healer/tank setup you are powerless if your companion dies to his mistake.

 

this is one thing i really enjoy about gw2 system.. when i played my healer in Rift if I get hosed the group was toast.. but like you said in GW2 any good player can make a rally and bring the team back.. makes combat much more exciting to me and way less predicatable.

hmm how to put it, while i dont hate on people who want to not have the holy trinity i prefer it.

why for me is simple i like to know what role im to fullfill, in real life its the same way i like a class to be able to fullfill multiple roles but i like everyone to know what their job is withen the group. this makes play easyier and more fluid, where everyone being able to do everything make it more chotic.

also it give people more reason to group, where as the ability to do everything incorages people to solo. i understand the concept of i wanna group because i want to not because i have to, but in reality this dousnt work in MMOs because we would never meet new people and make new friends if we didnt have a reason to group togther with people we dont aleady know

this is a bit of a ramble and in the end the holy trinity will always be liked or disliked as a matter of opion but this is mine, and i wont fault others for theirs.

Personally didn't enjoy the healing in GW2, mainly in PvP. Though it was nice for solo PvE.

1v1 PvP was like a 2 round boxing match, often seeing who would hit their heal first.

I think the personal heals/escapes for every class also ruined some aspects of RvR base strategy.  Was much harder for defenders to kill someone on the ground since even an alpha-strike could be quickly countered by a self-heal and roll away (much faster than a healer could have targeted and healed that player imo.) Likewise, defenders could be pretty idiotic and if they got into trouble just heal and roll away. I spent most of my time just pulling guys off walls. Just my view of it, I've played healers in WoW, Rift, so I enjoy it, but I wouldnt' be opposed to a new system if it was done right.

Another reason i didn't enjoy the GW2 system completely was that I thought it softened specialization a bit. Even a glass cannon thief/Hardcore DPS had a heal. Made them more of a bronze cannon.

Originally posted by Dzone
I prefer the trinity system, i personally wanna just focas on one role. Everyone being able to do everything is way to much. Should be magic casters in the back line, while melee fighters up front next to the mob. Didn't like playing a guardian in GW2, couldn't tank and all the healing spells was just shot out in front of my guy in a strait line, only healing who was directly in front of me. Hated that. Really need to beable to target allies to heal or AE heals. Plus with no hate system battles just turn into a mess, no orgenization at all. In GW2 only time we ever planed ahead of time was certain parts of a dungeon. PVE was nothing but a zerg fest, sadly. Even with the dragons.... no stratagy their.

i will agree dragons need a bit more variety to them but let me ask.. what modern themepark MMO requires any sort of strategy or coordination outside raiding? I did every dungeon in Rift in all difficulties aside from the Raids up till the expansion and not a single one required any strategy all we had to do is do each of our roles well and we got through it.. as long as you knew the boss mechanics you did what you needed to do and that was that.

Originally posted by remyburke
This is where GW2 falls flat on its face. Their system promotes everyone playing alone...together. Dungeons are a complete mess. I've said it before: there's a reason the trinity has been in RPGs since the 1970's. It works.

 Dungeons are only a mess for people who never understood the combat system. Thankfully you can't res zerg anymore in dungeons, so people have to actually think about what they are doing wrong.

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by remyburke
This is where GW2 falls flat on its face. Their system promotes everyone playing alone...together. Dungeons are a complete mess. I've said it before: there's a reason the trinity has been in RPGs since the 1970's. It works.

 Dungeons are only a mess for people who never understood the combat system. Thankfully you can't res zerg anymore in dungeons, so people have to actually think about what they are doing wrong.

I have done dungeons with PUGs of people who had no clue and with guildmates who do dungeon runs all the time.. it really is night and day.. in other MMOs i could get a PUG and finish most any regular dungeon no problem as long as people knew there roles. In gw2 its a bit differn't because you really need to know the combat system and know how to fill multiple roles on the fly. Saying that you can get through many of the dungeons even now just running around not really knowing what you are doing but it will be time consuming and frustrating. Pick any dungeon in the game and go on youtube and watch the speed runs some guys upload and see how a coordinated team can just destroy dungeons in this game. If combat was nothing more than a jumbled mess this would not be possible. it just has a much higher learning curve than the average MMO when it comes to the basic dungeons.