In our exclusive video interview earlier today, Rob Lashley sat down with City-State Entertainment's Mark Jacobs to talk about Camelot Unchained, a newly announced game that's already generating a lot of excitement in the MMO space. Check it out on our Camelot Unchained video page.

As I'm listening to this I am loving everything I am hearing about it. A lot of people are going to hate it. Doesn't sound like it will please the entitlement "i want it now" generation of gamers. But for my old bastard ass I'll love it.

• Tiered Price structure sounds solid. Higher tiers possibly allowing more servers to play on, or spouse/kid account additions.
• No Pay to Win. Maybe cosmetic items for housing but seems reluctant to allow things in the game crafters can't make.
• Class structure, seems hardcoded style, not skill based, some freedom but didn't elaborate too much.
• Crafter centric sounds awesome.
• No Auction Houses...Rejoice!!!
• Housing, limited info but I like it. Can build in both safe zones and build in RVR zones with risks of it being burnt down, but advantages/benefit over safe zones.
• Will ask for 2 million with Kickstarter. If that goal is met, Mark&His other investor(s) will contribute another 3 million to get the total to 5 million.  Mark putting probably about $2 million into it himself.
• No player looting in RVR but reward upon kill but still to be determined.
• No run and gun style fighting. Example...stand still casting/arrow firing, no running around bunny hopping dropping nukes on people.
• Not in the plans for single character per server but is open to discussing with players. Not something he understand the need/desire for but willing to discuss.
• Same faction FFA style isn't in the initial plans. Wants to get 3 faction game right first and would rather focus on that. If there is demand later its possible.
• If KS hits goal, september 2015 would be goal for game.
• If KS hits goal KS backers to get into alpha/beta VERY early. Wants their opinions and feedback.
• Engine for the game to be determined.
• Possible chance of mounted combat but its a stretch goal, probably wouldn't be at launch.
• Armor dyes will be present.
• Realm progression will be present but won't be structured realm ranks like DAOC.

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

I don't know how I feel about this game yet.  It's already listed as a game, yet doesn't even have an engine.  Is the "lot of excitement in the MMO space" because MMORPG keeps posting articles about a game concept?

Just saying, I don't think I've seen so much coverage of a "concept" without anything existing before. Are more games going to start doing a full out blizt on a concept before they ever go to Kickstarter now?  Are we going to see massive hypes and reviews and interviews for games before they're even funded?

Sigh.

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

I don't know how I feel about this game yet.  It's already listed as a game, yet doesn't even have an engine.  Is the "lot of excitement in the MMO space" because MMORPG keeps posting articles about a game concept?

 

Just saying, I don't think I've seen so much coverage of a "concept" without anything existing before. Are more games going to start doing a full out blizt on a concept before they ever go to Kickstarter now?  Are we going to see massive hypes and reviews and interviews for games before they're even funded?

 

Sigh.

You realize you can't build something from nothing, right? Mark already stated he doesn't want to have the game be invested by large companies. he wants the mmorpg to remain independent. For that he needs crowd funding along with the use of his own personal funds. All of this right here is to build up hype for a kickstarter. It's much better to lead into a kickstarter with previous momentum than it is to first pitch your concept with a kickstarter. He's generating interest for his game. If there is no interest then he will not go through making it. I think the reasoning behind that is obvious.

Originally posted by Jefffey

You realize you can't build something from nothing, right? Mark already stated he doesn't want to have the game be invested by large companies. he wants the mmorpg to remain independent. For that he needs crowd funding along with the use of his own personal funds. All of this right here is to build up hype for a kickstarter. It's much better to lead into a kickstarter with previous momentum than it is to first pitch your concept with a kickstarter. He's generating interest for his game. If there is no interest then he will not go through making it. I think the reasoning behind that is obvious.

But why doesn't MMORPG do numerous articles and interviews with other games before they go to Kickstarter?

Are they going to be in the business of hyping games before they exist now?  The game didn't fit into their normal rules to list so they had to fit it into the caveat of "well we know him so.."

I understand marketing, but other games like Origins of Malu didn't get this much exposure while they were ON Kickstarter, let alone before it.. and they had a game to show already.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Dakirn

Originally posted by Jefffey

You realize you can't build something from nothing, right? Mark already stated he doesn't want to have the game be invested by large companies. he wants the mmorpg to remain independent. For that he needs crowd funding along with the use of his own personal funds. All of this right here is to build up hype for a kickstarter. It's much better to lead into a kickstarter with previous momentum than it is to first pitch your concept with a kickstarter. He's generating interest for his game. If there is no interest then he will not go through making it. I think the reasoning behind that is obvious.

But why doesn't MMORPG do numerous articles and interviews with other games before they go to Kickstarter?

 

Are they going to be in the business of hyping games before they exist now?  The game didn't fit into their normal rules to list so they had to fit it into the caveat of "well we know him so.."

 

I understand marketing, but other games like Origins of Malu didn't get this much exposure while they were ON Kickstarter, let alone before it.. and they had a game to show already.

 

Just my opinion.

Whether you love it or hate it, life isn't fair and neither is the game industry. This game is getting the attention it is prior to Kickstarter because its being made by a known developer and is a pseudo sequel to one of the most beloved MMO's ever. Whether you like him or not, Mark Jacobs is a name in the industry so what he does will get coverage. Likewise If Mcquaid or Garriot started a kickstarter for anything you can be damn sure they would get a lot of coverage because of who they are. No one knows who the dev's of Malu are so, like it or not, they don't get the same coverage.

Originally posted by Raagnarz

Originally posted by Dakirn

Originally posted by Jefffey

You realize you can't build something from nothing, right? Mark already stated he doesn't want to have the game be invested by large companies. he wants the mmorpg to remain independent. For that he needs crowd funding along with the use of his own personal funds. All of this right here is to build up hype for a kickstarter. It's much better to lead into a kickstarter with previous momentum than it is to first pitch your concept with a kickstarter. He's generating interest for his game. If there is no interest then he will not go through making it. I think the reasoning behind that is obvious.

But why doesn't MMORPG do numerous articles and interviews with other games before they go to Kickstarter?

 

Are they going to be in the business of hyping games before they exist now?  The game didn't fit into their normal rules to list so they had to fit it into the caveat of "well we know him so.."

 

I understand marketing, but other games like Origins of Malu didn't get this much exposure while they were ON Kickstarter, let alone before it.. and they had a game to show already.

 

Just my opinion.

Whether you love it or hate it, life isn't fair and neither is the game industry. This game is getting the attention it is prior to Kickstarter because its being made by a known developer and is a pseudo sequel to one of the most beloved MMO's ever. Whether you like him or not, Mark Jacobs is a name in the industry so what he does will get coverage. Likewise If Mcquaid or Garriot started a kickstarter for anything you can be damn sure they would get a lot of coverage because of who they are. No one knows who the dev's of Malu are so, like it or not, they don't get the same coverage.

I for one am extremely glad they are covering it. I probably wouldn't have heard about it otherwise as I don't follow kickstarter at all, and couldn't be happier that this is going forward. I understand what you're saying about this site covering games that aren't even in production yet, but it's really not that unusual. Thinking back I can think of quite a few games that have been covered here from their inception, when nothing more than an idea and concept art.

That being said, and I never thought I'd say this, but I am probably going to contribute to this KS. What he is talking about is exactly what WAR should have been, DAoC redone from the ground up. Taking what DAoC has accomplished, and building off of it's concept using modern tech, and game design features all set in a new, but not alien, "universe". Not to get too off my train of thought here...I just have to throw in how disapointing WAR turned out to be, damn, I mean an updated DAoC set in the Warhammer universe. SIGH...anyway, it sounds to me like Mr.Jacobs has done what Brad McQuaid couldn't. He learned from ALL his experiences, not just the good. He has been through the ups and downs of this industry, he developed one of the most popular MMO's of it's day using modest resources; then they scored big obtaining the Warhammer license and things looked great; then the unthinkable, Mythic was bought by EA; WAR comes out and is ok, but not what people were hoping for; EA merged Mythic and Bioware and Mark bailed or was pushed. So, he has the experience and has seemingly learned from all of it, so I think if he can get off the ground, this could be something special.

I plan on contributing, and really hope this makes it off the ground and becomes what we all hope it can be. 'Fingers crossed'

What I am seeing here is a concept.

It's a good concept - but it's not unique - a lot of other devs have had similar ideas.

The issue (and problem) is in the application.

Looking at the interview I can see a few issues straight up - "going to find the guy that makes the best swords" and having to "barter face to face" sounds fantastic but what about when that guy isn't online?  So you have to have some kind of persistant presence.  This is do-able but there are games already on the market that can show some of the problems associated with these ideas.

Having resources ("mats") in zones with PvP is another great idea - with many problems.  The solution to some of the problems associated with that is to have those same resources in safe zones... so why would anyone go to the PvP zone again?  Not to mention that the end result is often a realm / clan / guild / faction with a strangle hold on all the important resources to the point where others simply stop playing.

Not saying that any or all of these problems cannot be solved - but the thing with MMOs is that one change in one area can lead to changes in player behaviour that flow on to other areas - perhaps creating more problems?

The issue I have with Mark Jacobs is that he is a 'concept guy' - in much the same way that Karl Marx was a concept guy.

People like the ideas behind Camelot Unchained because many of us have wanted a game like this for years - and so have many Devs - the issue is making it work.  Particularly when you factor in that some gamers will go out of their way just to ruin it for others.  It makes it hard to build utopia.

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

 

and all for 5 million dollars.

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

 

and all for 5 million dollars.

Only a problem if you expect the game to have AAA production values on top of the promised features...

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

 

and all for 5 million dollars.

Only a problem if you expect the game to have AAA production values on top of the promised features...

well there is no pve, so they save alot of time and money from that

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

 

and all for 5 million dollars.

All feasable. For Dark Age of Camelot (His biggest MMO Success) only cost 2.5million in development and 18months with a Tiny team (a Dozen Developers) and at its time everyone would say it would fail at the time (Which he stated on the offical site of Camelots Unchained). This way he will have way more freedom in creating the game and with more money will be a better RvR version of DAoC.

Originally posted by Deerhuntah60

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Dakirn

So they're going to figure out the engine and make the game and release it in 2 years? Isn't that cutting it kind of close for what they're trying to do?

 

 

and all for 5 million dollars.

All feasable. For Dark Age of Camelot (His biggest MMO Success) only cost 2.5million in development and 18months with a Tiny team (a Dozen Developers) and at its time everyone would say it would fail at the time (Which he stated on the offical site of Camelots Unchained). This way he will have way more freedom in creating the game and with more money will be a better RvR version of DAoC.

 

 

Um... no.

For 'freedom' you need time... and you have to buy 'time' with money.

Unless you have people prepared to work for free.

Buying (or licensing) an engine costs money too.

Look at the Double Fine Adventure to see what $3,000,000 buys.

Even with a great team and tools at your disposal you simply cannot afford to sit around.

$5,000,000 / 2 years = $2,500,000 per year.

A GOOGLE gets me this http://gamasutra.com/view/news/167355/Game_Developer_reveals_2011_Game_Industry_Salary_Survey_results.php#.UR5JTWfW5Ls

So, $2,500,000 / $81,000 gives me 30 employees max BUT that is without overheads or assets like for example;

An office

or Computers.

and in reality what you normally do is multiply the salary by a factor of 2 to 2.5 to account for overheads meaning that $2.5 million yearly only gets you 10-15 people.

If you look at City State Entertainment you see a team of 14 http://citystateentertainment.com/the-team-2/

so then you have to figure out what 14 people can actually achieve in +/- 700 days.  Taking into account ideas that don't work or that don't work as expected or simply fail and have to be done over.