In a new column debuting today at MMORPG.com, Adam Tingle takes on some of the genre's most over-discussed or completely avoided topics and dissects them in front of a live audience. See what he's got to say in his inaugural column and then head to the comments to continue the discussion.

So why are we here? Well, in lieu of starting this piece by urinating on a World of Warcraft Battle Chest, this is a place where I will air my online gripes, groans, and grumbles; it is a veritable soapbox where I, King of the Snark, will say and do the bad thing: if said bad thing is about level caps, PvP, and swords of +112 strength.

What I'm saying is: I'm the making the words that really count.

Read more of Adam Tingle's Tingle's Touchy Subjects: MMORPGs.

Very true. Ultima Online was awsome, and the mechanics are things which even today the big MMO companies haven't copied. True freedom, painful death (yes these days everyone is a pansy in this reguard unless you look at Eve who's possibly the closest but that's a pretty old MMO itself now), and the freedom for the player to shape the world to them. Anarchy Online was a close attempt but without the complexities of UO. But since then the MMO landscape has been sadly bland.

Can still remember my first guild leader in UO stealing my boat which I was living off since at the time couldn't afford a house and had saved up for ages for...but in those days, the world was cruel, no care bear nature. It was shaped by the people around you.

Ok, while I agree with the general sentiment; I have to say we REALLY need to stop with the rose-colored remembrances of some of the old games.

Ultima Online was fantastic.  I really liked many things about it.  The reason I quit playing was:

• Blue healers
• Gameplay-killing interface problems (e.g. two guys attack your friend and spam a wall of text while doing so - you can't target your friend through the text)
• Play-crushing lag around houses, which were everywhere
• Stupid bugs (e.g. enter another player's house as ghost, get friend or wandering healer to rez you through wall, open door from inside house, steal everything from house)
• Macroing
• Entirely hackable client-server communications

Originally posted by BitterClinger

Ok, while I agree with the general sentiment; I have to say we REALLY need to stop with the rose-colored remembrances of some of the old games.

Ultima Online was fantastic.  I really liked many things about it.  The reason I quit playing was:

• Blue healers
• Gameplay-killing interface problems (e.g. two guys attack your friend and spam a wall of text while doing so - you can't target your friend through the text)
• Play-crushing lag around houses, which were everywhere
• Stupid bugs (e.g. enter another player's house as ghost, get friend or wandering healer to rez you through wall, open door from inside house, steal everything from house)
• Macroing
• Entirely hackable client-server communications

So, no.  I don't want to return to those days.

I don't think people are calling for old bugs to be re-introduced just some of the old concepts.

I agree with the article.  I hate grinding quests.  I hate grinding mobs.  Those tasks are invariably boring as hell.  I could care less what kind of reward I get it will only make me angry when i realize that I have been tricked into doing all this boring gameplay in order to get some virtual advancement.  Then I will quit.  If people like these type of games then I guess good for them.  I won't be playing themepark games ever again.

There are titles that do not follow the quest grinder/dungeon raider/gear treadmill design, though they don't seem to be as popular as the AAA Pavlovian nightmares.  I'd suggest that those dissatisfied with the genre expand their horizons and check out some of the titles out there that are doing something different.

EVE

Age of Wushu

Wizardry Online

Salem

Wurm

Minecraft

Day Z

and more...

The market is WAY over saturated.

Seriously. No new MMOs should come out for at least 5 years. Attention span has decreased to an absolute minimum.

The MMO hopping needs to stop.

Yes the good old days of everquest, and eq2 are gone.  Most of the games we get now days are wow with a different candy wrapper on.  A lot of games tote inovation, while it is the same old thing with just a tad bit diferent ui and or tree alignment chart for specials. 

I not seen anything thats has inovation, not even swtor was inovative.  

I don't know how we are goign to get devs to get out of the rut, they are still copy/paste games from 5 years ago and give it to us again.

I enjoyed this article.  It was well-written, held my attention, and caused numerous smirks.

[mod edit]

I sort of agree.

It was the "genitals" remark that got me thinking "do any adults write mmo articles?" I would love mmorpg.com to have more serious and insightful articles. I don't mind if they are opinion pieces but I would really love to read something that didn't include remarks that feel like they came from "kids" all "tee-heeing" in the corner.

sorry Adam, I really don't mean to insult you but it just seems so crass. You have a soapbox where you can really shine. Urinating and genitals jokes seem like they come from kids instead of a burgeoning game journalist.

*APPLAUDS*

i agree completly

we didnt lose the trust of the developers, most developers today came in listening to one big ego (Raph Koster) tell them players dont know what they want and that Developers are supposed to tell them.

You cant lose something you never had and the only way players can get that trust is to STOP BUYING AND PAYING for thier games. Consumers drive the market, stop consuming and force a change...it can be done, its been done in the past, just look at EQ2. Koster got fired and was replaced and the company pushed out two quick expansions to give the players what they were demanding and it saved the game.

Tingle here.

I thought those remarks were funny. : [ Message received, less of the toilet humour. 

I agree that most mmorpgs seem to have lost that immersive feeling, that thing that kept many of us playing and paying monthly subs for our first games(virtual homes) for upwards of ten years or longer. 

I personally blame the cash stores for much of that(it's very hard to get attached to something you don't have to work for) and in the few games left that still haven't resorted to those, the need to satisfy the never ending greediness of shareholders by releasing beta products and catering to only endgame players, thus driving away any new blood as well as the subscribers that are willing to pay for years for the journey instead of rushing to endgame in a few weeks/months and then crying boredom before quitting and moving their sub to a new game.

What I have recently done to combat that sense of loss is return to my first virtual home as a newbie, no gold, no friends, a clean slate.  It's been a real breath of fresh air and although the mechanics of the ui is quite challenging(i need to relearn how to do macros so i can use my wasd keys instead of just my mouse) I have been enjoying it so much that I have resubbed.  Who says you can't go home!? :)