Originally posted by Gravarg
i'll take a P2P game over a F2P game.  In a P2P people are more obligated to play nice, while F2P games people don't really care, since it's not costing them anything yet.  There's alot less whining in P2P games, in F2P all you hear is people crying over little stuff all the time.

Riiiight and that explains the horrible community that's existed in WoW for years now don't it?

The idea behind why P2P games had a better community was based on the fact that you needed are CREDIT CARD to actually play them and adults where quite insecure about giving their CC to children before online payments became more popular.

Nowdays there are million ways to pay for P2P games (i.e game cards) that remove the need to actually have a CREDIT CARD or an access to it.

Personally I'd like to see something like they used to have in Korea which is social security identification. Basically you needed to input your personal information/identification to participate in online games and if you were banned you were gone for good and all of your actions could be traced back to you.

The prime problem with online communities is that you have zero responsibility of your actions and you are not punished for acting like a jackass while some games even push you to be selfish and ignorants by bad design.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

The idea behind why P2P games had a better community was based on the fact that you needed are CREDIT CARD to actually play them and adults where quite insecure about giving their CC to children before online payments became more popular.

Nowdays there are million ways to pay for P2P games (i.e game cards) that remove the need to actually have a CREDIT CARD or an access to it.

 

Personally I'd like to see something like they used to have in Korea which is social security identification. Basically you needed to input your personal information/identification to participate in online games and if you were banned you were gone for good and all of your actions could be traced back to you.

The prime problem with online communities is that you have zero responsibility of your actions and you are not punished for acting like a jackass while some games even push you to be selfish and ignorants by bad design.

 

What a load of BS. As if maturiy is something you can gaguge according to the age. UO and EQ back then had plenty of ass hats and jerks and they were all in there 20's and 30's.Nostalgia often fogs the truth.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

The idea behind why P2P games had a better community was based on the fact that you needed are CREDIT CARD to actually play them and adults where quite insecure about giving their CC to children before online payments became more popular.

Nowdays there are million ways to pay for P2P games (i.e game cards) that remove the need to actually have a CREDIT CARD or an access to it.

 

Both of my kids have paypal accounts, and they come with check cards. So no .. this is no reason not to give your kid a credit card.

I really think the OP is spot on with this.

People cheer and rally for a p2p games demise. Hoping..praying...that it goes free.  If it does the celebration usually is cut short when they realize that the still intend to get some form of payment, and some form of advantage is given to those who do pay.

Now with that said...the only game i can think of that went from p2p to legit f2p was Aion...the remainder have some form of free trial thats unrestricted *for the most part* with pay per content reserved for endgame...

Wait actually i stand corrected tera is a legit f2p game now.

Anyway.  You see this within games that are born f2p.  Always a segment of players, typically quite large ( i think the statistic was that 90% of f2p player pay nothing ever) who moan and whine about the cash shop..so much so that you would think that for a measly $15 per month they could get the whole game zero advantages for having more money to spend than you...and have nothing to worry about other than the game itself.

Ive played a lot of f2p...typically endgame requires much more spending than any p2p ive ever played...and the funny thing about it...those f2p game are there not because its the nice thing to do...but because they make MORE money.  They hit you hard in the wallet fairly fast.  Sometimes people end up paying $100 or so and then realize a week later the game sucks.  With a p2p at least your only out $15 or a $30-$40 box price with a free month, and thats usually if you choose to leave before endgame.

Its kind of funny but also kind of sad the rallying cheering and hoping for p2p games to fail so they go free...only to then complain about a cash shop.  Do these people have zero concept of the realities of the real world?  That no games are going to exist without people paying?  Its not easy to make a shitty game...insanely hard to make a good one....to expect the people who worked all those years not to be paid well for a good job...or even average job...its crazy.  Considering what a movie ticket goes for...or a weekend of rented movies...p2p mmorpgs are the cheapest form of entertainment around.

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

F2P models are nothing more than an extended trial. So ultimately if a player likes the game they will eventually end up being subscribers or spend similar or more amoutn iin cash shop. So yes in a way F2P players get what they deserve and rightly so. But then again without these F2P crowd your favorite MMO would crumble.

And there will always be people lined up looking for free handouts. Alot of the freeloading crowd will never pay for an account. I know 4 such people. They are also the people I know who don't stay with any MMO  for any period of time and usually complain when they leave them complaining and griping about the limitations they were given.

 

I never miss such people and companies guess also does not. Actually one of reason I (kind'a) hate f2p are they.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

The idea behind why P2P games had a better community was based on the fact that you needed are CREDIT CARD to actually play them and adults where quite insecure about giving their CC to children before online payments became more popular.

Nowdays there are million ways to pay for P2P games (i.e game cards) that remove the need to actually have a CREDIT CARD or an access to it.

 

Personally I'd like to see something like they used to have in Korea which is social security identification. Basically you needed to input your personal information/identification to participate in online games and if you were banned you were gone for good and all of your actions could be traced back to you.

The prime problem with online communities is that you have zero responsibility of your actions and you are not punished for acting like a jackass while some games even push you to be selfish and ignorants by bad design.

 

What a load of BS. As if maturiy is something you can gaguge according to the age. UO and EQ back then had plenty of ass hats and jerks and they were all in there 20's and 30's.Nostalgia often fogs the truth.

Maturity is a major factor when we are talking about kids who are less than 16 year-olds. Of course there are "asshats" 40+ but most of the _children_ playing MMOs are really terrible because they can't control their emotions and their social skills are not developed. If you play LoL for example you can easily spot that most of the whining/trolling/flaming players are kids.

If there actually was a 18+ rated MMORPG that required an unbreakable verification system for age the community would be a lot better _in a sense_ than any of the existing ones.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I really think the OP is spot on with this.

 

People cheer and rally for a p2p games demise. Hoping..praying...that it goes free.  If it does the celebration usually is cut short when they realize that the still intend to get some form of payment, and some form of advantage is given to those who do pay.

Now with that said...the only game i can think of that went from p2p to legit f2p was Aion...the remainder have some form of free trial thats unrestricted *for the most part* with pay per content reserved for endgame...

Wait actually i stand corrected tera is a legit f2p game now.

 

Anyway.  You see this within games that are born f2p.  Always a segment of players, typically quite large ( i think the statistic was that 90% of f2p player pay nothing ever) who moan and whine about the cash shop..so much so that you would think that for a measly $15 per month they could get the whole game zero advantages for having more money to spend than you...and have nothing to worry about other than the game itself.

Ive played a lot of f2p...typically endgame requires much more spending than any p2p ive ever played...and the funny thing about it...those f2p game are there not because its the nice thing to do...but because they make MORE money.  They hit you hard in the wallet fairly fast.  Sometimes people end up paying $100 or so and then realize a week later the game sucks.  With a p2p at least your only out $15 or a $30-$40 box price with a free month, and thats usually if you choose to leave before endgame.

 

Its kind of funny but also kind of sad the rallying cheering and hoping for p2p games to fail so they go free...only to then complain about a cash shop.  Do these people have zero concept of the realities of the real world?  That no games are going to exist without people paying?  Its not easy to make a shitty game...insanely hard to make a good one....to expect the people who worked all those years not to be paid well for a good job...or even average job...its crazy.  Considering what a movie ticket goes for...or a weekend of rented movies...p2p mmorpgs are the cheapest form of entertainment around.

I wish there was a like button. 

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

The idea behind why P2P games had a better community was based on the fact that you needed are CREDIT CARD to actually play them and adults where quite insecure about giving their CC to children before online payments became more popular.

Nowdays there are million ways to pay for P2P games (i.e game cards) that remove the need to actually have a CREDIT CARD or an access to it.

 

Personally I'd like to see something like they used to have in Korea which is social security identification. Basically you needed to input your personal information/identification to participate in online games and if you were banned you were gone for good and all of your actions could be traced back to you.

The prime problem with online communities is that you have zero responsibility of your actions and you are not punished for acting like a jackass while some games even push you to be selfish and ignorants by bad design.

 

What a load of BS. As if maturiy is something you can gaguge according to the age. UO and EQ back then had plenty of ass hats and jerks and they were all in there 20's and 30's.Nostalgia often fogs the truth.

Maturity is a major factor when we are talking about kids who are less than 16 year-olds. Of course there are "asshats" 40+ but most of the _children_ playing MMOs are really terrible because they can't control their emotions and their social skills are not developed. If you play LoL for example you can easily spot that most of the whining/trolling/flaming players are kids.

If there actually was a 18+ rated MMORPG that required an unbreakable verification system for age the community would be a lot better _in a sense_ than any of the existing ones.

Unproven assumptions and opinions. The crew I grew up with were playing between 13-15, and we were guilded with adults. Our goal was to not draw attention to ourselves and give out the fact that we were our age, because it wasn't even important. Played in a guild across 3 games for 4-5 years before anyone knew. During that time, though, we met an unforseen ammount of guildees who seemed completely void of any type of maturity, and they weren't young adults either.

To assume that all kids act out due to immaturity is ludicrous, and to make the statement that even the majority of them do is purely opinionated, because you don't know that. Yeah, you spotted one, or two, or even 10 that act out. I'm willing to bet it's not more than the amount of adults who act the same way.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

People cheer and rally for a p2p games demise. Hoping..praying...that it goes free.  If it does the celebration usually is cut short when they realize that the still intend to get some form of payment, and some form of advantage is given to those who do pay.

 

Where do you get that?

Celebration never ends .. there are so many F2P games. If you hit a limitation and don't like it, go to the next one. And isn't it fair that those who subsidize your gaming has some advantages?

And why would it even matter in a PvE game? Shouldn't i want people i PUG with to be geared?

Originally posted by Sijjistoryus

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well if you don't like Their business model dont support it. As for other freeloaders complaining about whatever gripe they have. Pay first then complain.  If developers give all the freeloaders everything  they clamor for. What's the point in charging for anything.

People will use the weak argument that they have to be able to  see the game to decide if they want to pay for it. Well if your playing the trial version because that's what most of these F2P and there are things you see you want or feel that the paying Crowd gets to many advantages. Then don't complain. Buck up and  pull out your wallets instead of throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old.

lol. The only person here that is throwing any tantrum is you.

I dont think you know this word "tantrum"