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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: The Solo Game

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  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/12/13 5:00:28 PM#41
Originally posted by Distopia

By this logic a person could claim SWG wasn't open world... as well as TES titles.

 

 No, in SWG you could go from one end of the world to the other, no loading screens. it wasnt divided into 3 parts and you could only go into 1/3rd of them.

Nice try though seeing as how the argument for factioned worlds holds no ground...doesnt even apply to TES where you are free to enter the lands of all factions until you pick a side, a side YOU CAN CHOSE no matter the race and even after you have chosen, go right up and smack the other factions in their faces anywhere you choose.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14373

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/12/13 5:08:46 PM#42
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

By this logic a person could claim SWG wasn't open world... as well as TES titles.

 

 No, in SWG you could go from one end of the world to the other, no loading screens. it wasnt divided into 3 parts and you could only go into 1/3rd of them.

Nice try though seeing as how the argument for factioned worlds holds no ground...doesnt even apply to TES where you are free to enter the lands of all factions until you pick a side, a side YOU CAN CHOSE no matter the race and even after you have chosen, go right up and smack the other factions in their faces anywhere you choose.

There was a loading screen before entering any planet in SWG.

Anyway i explained more in an edit to my original post, not going to repeat it.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 659

Permafried

2/12/13 5:16:46 PM#43
Originally posted by rnkis
I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!

 

Everyone who enjoys soloing in a MMORPG are in that "class" for different reasons.  I guess, when I was playing in the late 90's and was self-employed, I would have thought the same as you.. ?  Not sure to be honest.  I do know that I grouped exclusively in my early years of online gaming.

For me, it was having kids that changed things.  All the sudden, I could play my game while the baby was sleeping but I had to be prepared to go afk or logout at a moment's notice.  Grouping was a chore and it wasn't fair to the others in the group.  I started doing a lot more soloing, as I still enjoyed playing MMOs.

The "forced" soloing, in addition to new habits and likes formed during that time, changed the way I enjoy MMORPGs.  I love to challenge myself, to see what I can accomplish by myself in these games.  I learned to love grinding out mobs solo for the sake of having fun and relaxing.

 

Like I said, it's different for everyone.  But there's my reason fwiw.

 
EDIT:  As to why I still enjoy MMORPGs instead of resigning myself to SP games, I enjoy being social either with my guild or in general chat.  I enjoy BSing with others while I'm playing.  It's really that simple.

Happily Playing: ESO
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  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 4725

2/12/13 5:31:24 PM#44
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

By this logic a person could claim SWG wasn't open world... as well as TES titles.

 

 No, in SWG you could go from one end of the world to the other, no loading screens. it wasnt divided into 3 parts and you could only go into 1/3rd of them.

Nice try though seeing as how the argument for factioned worlds holds no ground...doesnt even apply to TES where you are free to enter the lands of all factions until you pick a side, a side YOU CAN CHOSE no matter the race and even after you have chosen, go right up and smack the other factions in their faces anywhere you choose.

There was a loading screen before entering any planet in SWG.

Anyway i explained more in an edit to my original post, not going to repeat it.

the worlds in SWG were seperate, so in that sense there was 'zoning' in as much you had to either fly a starship between worlds or grab a shuttle ticket, it still however contradicts your statement, on each world in SWG, you could travel around each one without encountering a loading screen, when traversing tatooine for instance you could go in any direction you wanted, and these were large worlds. i don't know how long it would take to circle on on foot, but even in a vehicle it would have taken a significant amount of time, and no loading screens.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/12/13 5:31:27 PM#45
Originally posted by Distopia

There was a loading screen before entering any planet in SWG.

Anyway i explained more in an edit to my original post, not going to repeat it.

 

 Perhaps the word "world" is being lost.

It isnt open WORLD. Its open ZONED. OPEN WORLD IS OPEN WORLD. Open ZONED is just about every single MMO ever made...they are even calling INSTANCES, CAMPAIGNS, in order to push that label aside.

Once you toss out their attempts to chang meanings and remove their attempts to exchange one word for another, less damaging word you see what it is. instanced. they can call it cottoncandy in place of isntance if they want, its instanced. And no, even if the "campaigns" are persistant, being able to change from one to the other makes it more an instance, than open.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 202

2/12/13 9:20:59 PM#46

I still think, that having crafted gear in loot is a bad idea, that removes a lot of content/gameplay.

Players should only loot/find materials and let crafters do their job.

Also: smithing, leather, tailor, armor craft, weapon craft, enchanting, etc, etc... should each have it's own skill line, to invest in, wich will stretch gameplay.

 

  FallguyArmy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 80

2/12/13 9:50:39 PM#47
Originally posted by Rthuth434
i hope all the art in these articles isn't really from the game. somehow looks way worse than the art in even oblivion.

Sorry to break it to you man, but the screenshots you see are indeed directly from the game. (Pretty bad, huh?) Now to be fair, those are images from the game's alpha or even pre-alpha stage, so it's quite possible they've improved since then. At least I hope...

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1041

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

2/12/13 11:14:32 PM#48
Originally posted by Gel214th

Yes. None of this makes the game seem to be Solo Friendly in any way. At all.

 

"The best part of Skyrim for me is picking a direction and wandering down a path. It really opens up your gameplay experience. It makes you think, and you can enjoy the game on your own without following question marks and exclamation points. If you stumble into a quest, great, if not you kind of make your own up. I have enjoyed this type of gameplay in other games as well."

 

I don't play Skyrim like this, and I actually hate games that don't have clearly defined objectives and waypoints. I use the Journal in Skyrim and the Fast Travel system a lot. The quests I have gotten have all been either given directly according to a storyline, or were very close to the areas where I was doing a main quest anyway. Then there are the prompted quests where couriers or NPCs actually approach you and give you a quest. 

 

Players will simply create a Third Party website with a list of ALL the quests in a zone, and the locations of the NPCs. Therefore this will just force players to have a second window open and Alt Tab or print quest locations and information. Tedious and unnecessary. MMO development over the last 10 years has already idenfitied that the majority of players want easy and quick access to quests and objective information. Every MMO that has launched without this has retrofitted it after the fact (and a looking for group system). ESO could very well offer a "purist" option to turn everything off for those who don't want the icons and information that we're accustomed to. 

 

I would hate to have limited time and end up wandering the world for an hour without ever finding a quest of my level and just attacking random camps and groups. The idea of a progressing storyline that my character plays a part in is what I like about RPGs. Skyrim has this, and so do most MMORPGs. Guild Wars 2 has done a fantastic job of having a personalised story, as has SWTOR (probably the only thing they got really right in that MMO). 

 

The interface was also a failing in Skyrim (and Morrowind,and Fallout New Vegas in my view). It was fairly terrible from a usability perspective. SkyUI for Skyrim fixed this a bit, but it was still very clunky to use on the PC. I still wish for a standard MMO interface for Skyrim, with a hotbar, minimap and normal WASD + mouse controls with active combat and a proper third person view. I am hoping that ESO provides this :-)

 

"If you are playing solo though, this is a major part of the game. It is all about being self-sufficient. My main character in Skyrim has both 100 Blacksmithing and 100 Enchanting."

 

And now Crafting is supposed to be a draw for the Solo Player? I never craft in MMOs. I hate it. I prefer to buy what I want with Gold, buy and sell on the Auction House or get by in other ways. In Skyrim I do quests to get Daedric and other high level weapons and armor and build my weapon and armor skills to do more damage and get more protection. Crafting in an MMORPG involves grinding. It is one of the classic time and money sinks that designers build into Subscription based MMOs. Going out and searching for resource nodes, killing multiple enemies to collect materials and ingredients etc. Not my style of play, and I really don't see this as making a game geared for the Solo Player.

 

Sure, if you grind like hell you could maybe get the same gear as someone that groups up and runs a dungeon. But in my view grouping up and running the dungeon is more fun with way less time. So actually what you are saying here is that the Solo player will be at a distinct disadvantage. It will take them a lot more time to get similar gear, and most likely cost a lot more in materials as well.

 

Now if this article indicated that the dungeons and other content will scale to my Solo playstyle I would cheer and note one feature geared for the Solo player. It does not seem that this is the case with Elder Scrolls Online, though.

 

Secondly, the game needs a robust auction house and trading post for players to sell their items. Not a real world style market with "storefronts" that you need to wander through to find something. Reality check, in 2012 people use the virtual and quick online markets known as Amazon, Craigslist and Ebay to find what they want. The new ways are more efficient. There are several MMOs that have integrated auction house and trading systems. Copy one of them. 

 

Thus far I think Guild Wars 2 has the best trading post and delivery system I've seen in any MMORPG. It's the most efficient and flexible of them all out the box. Each player setting up a little store building that players must wander around clicking to see what is for sale is ridiculous, in my view. If that is what ESO is proposing then it's definitely not a buy for me. 

 

"Random Loot"

 

Really? This article goes way off course with this point. Since when is Random Loot aimed at the Solo Player? It isn't. It is part of the normal loot system of the game and is not in anyway something included in MMOs to benefit the single player. Loot SCALING is something different, and that too is expected. Also Random Loot without the aforementioned auction and trading post system will result in third party auction sites (that will provide the services that an in -game trading systme should) or indecipherable Trading Channel chat spam.  

 

From the article I have gathered that as far as the author knows, ESO contains no specific features and mechanics for the Solo player and is a Group based MMO focusing on Open World exploration. i.e. not my style of play, which tends more toward the Guild Wars 2, Rift, Neverwinter Online (from what I have seen in preview videos) playstyle. In those games I can play Solo, Duo or in a larger group and have a fantastic experience. From this article it seems that as a Solo Player I'm pretty much screwed in ESO, things will be a lot harder for me, and I'm not a masochist ;-) 

 

Hoping that I am wrong about that! 

 
 

Funny. I wholeheartedly disagree with everything  you said.  No one says you have to USE a website.  Gamers like you take all the challenge out of a game.  Hopefully TESO will be a game you hate so I can enjoy it.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2398

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/12/13 11:20:22 PM#49
Originally posted by FallguyArmy
Originally posted by Rthuth434
i hope all the art in these articles isn't really from the game. somehow looks way worse than the art in even oblivion.

Sorry to break it to you man, but the screenshots you see are indeed directly from the game. (Pretty bad, huh?) Now to be fair, those are images from the game's alpha or even pre-alpha stage, so it's quite possible they've improved since then. At least I hope...

25k6geg.jpg

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3449

2/12/13 11:34:27 PM#50
Well, the writer is not an ESO developer, so is this just what the writer wishes for ESO as player? It would be nice if ESO would actually offer Skyrim/Morrowind kind of exploring. Especially if you can stumble upon quest objects like in Skyrim.
  rnkis

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/04
Posts: 4

2/13/13 12:39:15 AM#51

There are points made in each "why I want solo play" explanation I see that I completely understand. I even feel the same way about many of those points.

Yes, there are times I just want to explore or meander about and not have to worry about being on someone else's schedule. Absolutely I agree you should be able to do so - to an extent. Sure, you should be able to wander - solo -  into a forest you haven't explored yet to hunt for wolf skins to either sell or use yourself, happen across a bandit camp, systematically do away with the occupants and make off with their booty. However** - I think it should be a challenge to do so, not jump in, hit 3 buttons and completely destroy the target in less than 30 seconds.

The thing I have a problem understanding is when players want to have to rely ZERO percent on other players - on other people inside this world full of other people.

This extreme of "I should be able to do every single thing that can be done completely by myself (with the exception of "raids" "because that would just be silly...")" that players have adopted is just freakin ridiculous.

You enjoy crafting? Great! The world needs master crafters. But no I don't think you should be able to craft or gather every single component you would need to create exceptional goods on your own. You should need to trade with other professions for bits and pieces that you yourself would not have the expertise to create. A tailor wants to make a bag that's both stunningly fashionable and exceptionally functional - however his talent lies in tailoring, not in the metalworking required to make the perfect fasteners.

Yes, you should be able to travel solo - with the added danger of being alone in a very dangerous world that traveling with companions would lessen. I think I described my thoughts on that above.

Someone else in this thread said exactly what's happening to MMORPGs. People don't want an MMO anymore. They want a single player game with a live chat room. It's just friggin silly.

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4546

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/13/13 3:40:14 AM#52
i dont want single player in my mmo. The way GW2 did the personal story its acceptable (it could have been better too) because its not required to experience the lore of the game. If TESO has a strong focus on solo play instead of grouping just because its a TES game.... hey, after 250 hours in skyrim i havent beat it.... and also got Morrowind and Oblivion, i dont need a solo game with subscription (pretty sure theyll pick that model)

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  odiasuda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 45

2/13/13 5:21:00 AM#53
Originally posted by rojo6934
i dont want single player in my mmo. The way GW2 did the personal story its acceptable (it could have been better too) because its not required to experience the lore of the game. If TESO has a strong focus on solo play instead of grouping just because its a TES game.... hey, after 250 hours in skyrim i havent beat it.... and also got Morrowind and Oblivion, i dont need a solo game with subscription (pretty sure theyll pick that model)

Don't play then.  There are plenty of other games with forced grouping for you to choose from.

  Zefire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 688

2/13/13 5:52:47 AM#54

Randddom items should have been in all mmos.

Imagine diablo item style in a mmo.It would be simply amazing

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 949

2/13/13 5:57:24 AM#55

Open world....with 3 locked explorable area's....

I don't think it means what you think it means!

  julienkage

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 13

2/13/13 7:40:36 AM#56
The all gear is equal here wont last at all guys. The WoW nerds will invade or someone will cry and they will cave and people will want end game gear to be better, ect. I've seen this before.
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

2/13/13 7:43:00 AM#57
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wait crafted gear is equal? That can't be right, we have "facts" from several "mmo experts" on these very forums that this is a wow style raid gear beats all game ;)

Wish there was a +1 button on this site...

I've always liked the thought that a themepark MMO should do away with bonus rewards for quests.

No chunk of XP, no sword of +1 troll smiting.

Leave all the reward for DOING the task - the XP and treasures you get while exploring and fighting etc. to complete the quests objectives.

You know, like how Skyrim does quests for the most part.

That way, questing becomes a guide and/or a possible path, not the only viable way to play the game.

Questing and quest givers become sign posts - directing you towards (hopefully) fun content.

Rather than loot dispensers handing out arbitrary tasks.

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2191

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

2/13/13 9:09:13 AM#58
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wait crafted gear is equal? That can't be right, we have "facts" from several "mmo experts" on these very forums that this is a wow style raid gear beats all game ;)

Wish there was a +1 button on this site...

I've always liked the thought that a themepark MMO should do away with bonus rewards for quests.

No chunk of XP, no sword of +1 troll smiting.

Leave all the reward for DOING the task - the XP and treasures you get while exploring and fighting etc. to complete the quests objectives.

You know, like how Skyrim does quests for the most part.

That way, questing becomes a guide and/or a possible path, not the only viable way to play the game.

Questing and quest givers become sign posts - directing you towards (hopefully) fun content.

Rather than loot dispensers handing out arbitrary tasks.

I agree XP rewards should be done away with. But I fully understand why they do it. Its purpose serves as easy timed controlled leveling. Which MMO's have become easy mode. If you were to bump the xp gained from killing mobs you would have people grinding to cap in a few days, instead of the already super easy leveling process of a couple weeks. You cut the xp from mobs all the sudden everyone complaining about to big of a grind. I do not mind getting a physical reward like gold or an item for completing a task.

As for raid gear and crafted gear, an MMO needs gear that is hard to obtain period. Otherwise everyone gets it and becomes bored with the game and moves on. For the majority this has been proven over and over. Where as if there is a goal that people strive to reach, then more people will stay longer.  If raid gear is not better, there is no point to have raids. Thus finishing off the last shred of multiplayer in this sad state genre we have now, It really would be signle player online rpg. Then you are left with a glorified LoL or DOTA type mmo. There is a market for both of these these type of games, but dammit there is also a market for real old school type MMORPG's. 

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3541

2/13/13 9:10:55 AM#59
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
After playing ES games for so many years it would be odd to not have heavy focus on solo gameplay in TESO. I want to play TESO like i play Skyrim...just me and my sword against the world ;)
 

 Actually I don't want to play that way.....I'd jsut as soon play Skyrim or Morrowind if that is what they are going to do......This needs to be players working together in Elder Scrolls environment.....Just making another single player game with other people around is worthless.

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 660

2/13/13 10:22:27 AM#60
exploration ,open world,freedom ...are  reasson why most players love TES games ,seems ESO ll be everithing but not  it

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

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