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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » [Poll] Do you want a DAoC-inspired or a fast action combat system in CU?

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57 posts found
  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

2/12/13 7:28:56 PM#21

Cant say im really a fan of having to block or parry myself, all those things require a fast ping to the server to play at the top level, its not ideal for an MMO setting.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

2/12/13 8:21:36 PM#22
DAOC  combat, perhaps some WoW counter spell like mechanics, but for larger fights GW2 system is crap. WoW is really good in small scale a lot of interesting stuff can happen. But for large fights it is unusable. Also daoc had a huge varience in kill times. High RR caster on a fresh to RvR unbuffed target was abotu 2 sec kill time.. almost felt unfair: tab nuke nuke oh you are dead already(1 WoW GCD passed)?? tab one more GCD another dead or  berserker in vendo with Celerity going so much ouch
  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1133

2/12/13 8:26:32 PM#23
There's kind of a false premise involved in the poll. TTK in GW 2 is way higher than DAOC so DAOC combat is actually faster paced and more visceral. But anyway if forced to choose, I'll take the DAOC style system. The dumbed down combat system they came up with for GW 2 was not their best innovation.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7249

2/12/13 8:28:57 PM#24
Hard interupts and nasty CC.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

2/12/13 8:30:27 PM#25

GW2 combat might have been better if it wasn't so clunky, halt and standstill delay in my charge abilities as melee? GTFO.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Jostle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 63

2/12/13 9:07:01 PM#26
Originally posted by skyexile

Cant say im really a fan of having to block or parry myself, all those things require a fast ping to the server to play at the top level, its not ideal for an MMO setting.

I dunno, if you tweaked the timing it could work well. Just as using styles after you block/parry/dodge or your target blocked/parried/dodged worked. But I get what you're saying and I also enjoy my character being a badass because the way I built him. A middle ground would be nice.

  gregoryvg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 35

2/12/13 9:40:39 PM#27
Originally posted by Jostle
Originally posted by skyexile

Cant say im really a fan of having to block or parry myself, all those things require a fast ping to the server to play at the top level, its not ideal for an MMO setting.

I dunno, if you tweaked the timing it could work well. Just as using styles after you block/parry/dodge or your target blocked/parried/dodged worked. But I get what you're saying and I also enjoy my character being a badass because the way I built him. A middle ground would be nice.

Honestly, I doubt it could work well; and I don't want CU to be an experiment to find out.  To me, the actiony controls are just a gimmick, esp. in a MMO.  I voted for sticking with the tried and true, not saying there is not room for innovating/perfecting the control scheme.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

2/12/13 9:45:59 PM#28

yea i dont mind reactive abilities, im not totally familiar with daoc's combat, but i mean stuff like overpower and revenge from WoW. i guess pressing buttons to dodge and parry isnt so bad though alot of the time you can predict if stuff is coming in. it has seriously been ages since iv played a good MMO with traditional combat though, i could stomach it. I loved tank walls in WAR, pushing up the stairs with my healers aoe healing through walls, punting their tank walls around to break through then into the enemys wizards or breaking out onto the balcony. The epic holdouts above the lord rooms in dwarf keeps or in the oilrooms of the outer walls.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Shadanwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1872

2/12/13 10:43:09 PM#29

slow and tactical

you want twitch...go play Planetside 2

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

2/13/13 1:10:52 AM#30

As long as there is a real meaning for strategy, instead of just zerging around (GW2 I'm looking at you), I couldn't care less how the actual combat mechanics work.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1082

2/13/13 1:20:57 AM#31

I wish a game would copy asherons call as far as magic and missle weapons. you target a enemy but he could still dodge the incomeing war magic damage or arrows by moving out of the way.

  Jostle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 63

2/13/13 10:23:09 AM#32
Originally posted by gregoryvg
Originally posted by Jostle
Originally posted by skyexile

Cant say im really a fan of having to block or parry myself, all those things require a fast ping to the server to play at the top level, its not ideal for an MMO setting.

I dunno, if you tweaked the timing it could work well. Just as using styles after you block/parry/dodge or your target blocked/parried/dodged worked. But I get what you're saying and I also enjoy my character being a badass because the way I built him. A middle ground would be nice.

Honestly, I doubt it could work well; and I don't want CU to be an experiment to find out.  To me, the actiony controls are just a gimmick, esp. in a MMO.  I voted for sticking with the tried and true, not saying there is not room for innovating/perfecting the control scheme.

It wouldn't be much of an experiment, really. What I'm suggesting isn't a precision twitch-based parrying and blocking. It's more like things in WAR like Hold the Line, Can't Hit Me!, and Wall of Darting Steel but with more variance. Your build and your skill should both be an aspect of how you do in combat.

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

2/13/13 5:46:23 PM#33
Originally posted by Jostle
Originally posted by gregoryvg
Originally posted by Jostle
Originally posted by skyexile

Cant say im really a fan of having to block or parry myself, all those things require a fast ping to the server to play at the top level, its not ideal for an MMO setting.

I dunno, if you tweaked the timing it could work well. Just as using styles after you block/parry/dodge or your target blocked/parried/dodged worked. But I get what you're saying and I also enjoy my character being a badass because the way I built him. A middle ground would be nice.

Honestly, I doubt it could work well; and I don't want CU to be an experiment to find out.  To me, the actiony controls are just a gimmick, esp. in a MMO.  I voted for sticking with the tried and true, not saying there is not room for innovating/perfecting the control scheme.

It wouldn't be much of an experiment, really. What I'm suggesting isn't a precision twitch-based parrying and blocking. It's more like things in WAR like Hold the Line, Can't Hit Me!, and Wall of Darting Steel but with more variance. Your build and your skill should both be an aspect of how you do in combat.

Actually WAR's example is exactly a proof of that active tanking may not be that good idea. Remember those stability and latency issues months after launch (like 12 months not 1-2)? Now imagine mechanics where keep defending is based heavily on body blocking of any kind (WAR). Then add to this some latency stuff going on (300 ms should already be clearly affecting results). Add to this active tanking which in fact also limits margin for error (unless assumption is that player should block like one hit per minute as cooldown would be something like that) and suddenly 300 ms constant latency becomes even bigger problem. For PvE game and small groups gameplay it's great thing. For combat that can potentially involve 100+ players at the same time in the same place it's a bit risky to introduce it.

Although reactive abilities (aka you hit me so I hurt you in return) would be good. Plus PvP tanking more less like it was in WAR (i.e. taunts on players, support to rest of the group, tank walls) and some real cooldowns (unlike in WAR) so you really need to think what to use next would be great.

  Yukmarc

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 92

2/13/13 5:54:52 PM#34
Originally posted by CluckingChicken
I want the combat to be fast and meaty, and GW2 does a good job of that. I don't want to be chipping down someones health for over a minute only to have a healer walk by and instantly heal him back to full. I had enough of that trying to hit 2200 in WoW arenas. Slower combat is a thing of the past. If I get hit with a gigantic axe, I expect it to hurt. Also I want healers to have to react fast enough to help people. They shouldn't be able to take a sip of their tea and a nibble of their biscuit between spells in the middle of a giant battle.

That's why you hit the healers with the 40 second shield bash first! Go Armsman!

A healer can't heal if his spells keep getting interrupted. That's the way it should be!

  time007

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 385

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

2/14/13 7:43:55 AM#35

Slow and tactical is best!!!!!

 

if you like anything else, well go back to your Duke Nukem and stay out of my roleplaying!  Get your FPS out of my RPG!

  time007

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 385

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

2/14/13 7:48:21 AM#36
Originally posted by CluckingChicken
I want the combat to be fast and meaty, and GW2 does a good job of that. I don't want to be chipping down someones health for over a minute only to have a healer walk by and instantly heal him back to full. I had enough of that trying to hit 2200 in WoW arenas. Slower combat is a thing of the past. If I get hit with a gigantic axe, I expect it to hurt. Also I want healers to have to react fast enough to help people. They shouldn't be able to take a sip of their tea and a nibble of their biscuit between spells in the middle of a giant battle.

Dude, bro, dont mention a WoW arena when your choice is basically daoc style vs. the new kid on the block fad combat system.  You'r seriously lumping in the WoW arena and combat system with the Daoc system?  Go back and review what you just wrote.  They have very little in common. 

 

This post isnt about chipping someones health or about the speed at which it goes down, directly.

 

Can you re-edit your post actually?  I'm not saying you can't mention Wow on this thread or you will get flamed, but you will get flamed if you lump that Wow crap in with Daoc's style of combat.  Wow helped bring about the FPS combat systems we have now, with the jumping spinning b.s. crap we have now in mmo's.

  Jostle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 63

2/14/13 10:56:10 AM#37
Originally posted by alterfenix

Actually WAR's example is exactly a proof of that active tanking may not be that good idea. Remember those stability and latency issues months after launch (like 12 months not 1-2)? Now imagine mechanics where keep defending is based heavily on body blocking of any kind (WAR). Then add to this some latency stuff going on (300 ms should already be clearly affecting results). Add to this active tanking which in fact also limits margin for error (unless assumption is that player should block like one hit per minute as cooldown would be something like that) and suddenly 300 ms constant latency becomes even bigger problem. For PvE game and small groups gameplay it's great thing. For combat that can potentially involve 100+ players at the same time in the same place it's a bit risky to introduce it.

Although reactive abilities (aka you hit me so I hurt you in return) would be good. Plus PvP tanking more less like it was in WAR (i.e. taunts on players, support to rest of the group, tank walls) and some real cooldowns (unlike in WAR) so you really need to think what to use next would be great.

Are you talking about collision detection? That's not what I'm talking about at all. Yes, collision detection made the game very laggy. Yes, it was cool in a novel sort of way in choke areas like keeps and certain battlefield objectives. Out in the open I found it made very little difference. I wasn't really the biggest proponent or opponent of CD. But again, totally not what I'm getting at at all.

So let me ask. What is it you mean by "active tanking?" Do you mean physically blocking people? Do you mean the ability guard? Or the abilities I cited above like Hold the Line? Because I really don't see how those abilities would cause more lag than any other ability that effected other players. I do agree the game could have done with some longer cooldowns on big abilities.

While we're on the topic of WAR's combat, I'd like to go on record saying that I love the morale system, and if it were tweaked and balanced, I think that sort of system would work well almost universally in fantasy mmo real-time combat. Wow, I had to add a lot more qualifiers there than I meant to. It would probably have been better to just delete "universally."

  Heartspark

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/14/13 11:40:59 AM#38
Originally posted by meddyck
There's kind of a false premise involved in the poll. TTK in GW 2 is way higher than DAOC so DAOC combat is actually faster paced and more visceral. But anyway if forced to choose, I'll take the DAOC style system. The dumbed down combat system they came up with for GW 2 was not their best innovation.

 

Hello Meddyck!  I remember you in game with bot :D  You played on Bors right?  I played on Kay and Bors quite a lot as Dranzerk (zerker) and Heartspark (rr12 animist).

 

DAOC style all the way.

Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired

Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

2/14/13 8:00:58 PM#39
Tactical.  If I want action, I'll play an FPS.  I like my RPGs to allow for a more strategic approach.
  erkzul

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/13
Posts: 16

2/24/13 10:33:34 AM#40

I agree with most people on this thread, tactical DAoC style combat is the way to go.

I really like the word I've heard being thrown around to describe this game: 'old school' MMO.

 

Also this is a bit off topic, but please use DAoC style spell/particle effects.

I want to see whats happening in combat, not stare at a storm of fire, lightning and ice explosions, not being able to see whats happening in combat.. *cough GW2 cough*

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