Originally posted by Wicoa

The system is too open to abuse by the developer, infact the system changes by game.  At least with p2p all subscribers are equal and know thats all they ever need to pay.

F2P has open ended payment options and requires a few to subsidise the many.

I am happy F2P is now being snubbed by people like Mark Jacobs.

However F2P combined with a hybrid model can work.

Any system is open to abuse, what's there stopping a P2P dev from making P2W items? the fact you pay a monthly sub? really? People need to drop the shallow and one sided views already, F2P is the future because it is open, if you want a closed system where everything is controlled including how much time you're allowed to play (no more than what you paid for) then be my guest but I'd rather have the freedom of choice over the illusion of control.

Originally posted by 123443211234
Because f2p games tend to revolve around ways the devs can extract more money out of you rather than just focusing on creating a good game.

What if I told you focusing on creating a good game cost money?

Originally posted by Arclan

 

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Originally posted by KLECKO
F2p = hackers

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This. Plus nothing in life is free. Rather than charging a fair price, F2P games use deception and trickery to prod you to keep reaching for your wallet. All F2P games that I know of offer character advancement for a fee (xp potions). Meaning all F2P games are P2W. I will not ever download a F2P game.

 

Path of Exile is the only F2P game with an excellent cash shop.. No item boost, No exp Boost .. only cosmetics and extra slots for chars and items

I prefer to pay the same amount of money as any other player and get access to the same content, no more and no less.  So I prefer sub games.  

Or I would prefer them if devs would just allow solo players to be on an equal footing with groupers.  Since they never do I'm fine with free to play because I refuse to ever pay again to be a second class citizen.

But if a game ever does release that allows me to solo start to finish and at end game without punishing me through lack of access to gear for things like PvP and without forcing me to face premades I hope it is a sub game so that I don't have to worry about fighting against another player's fat wallet.

Free 2 Play blurs the distinction between achievers and purchasers.

I have a cool mount in Runes of Magic.

Did I do some long quest chain?  No.

Did my character slay some mega-boss?  No.

Did I grind reputation for hours? No.

How did I get it?  Credit card.

See the blur?  Am I an achiever for having my mount?

Originally posted by MightyChasm
Nothing per se.  Unfortunately you have to pick the good ones from a lot of very cheaply produced cash-grabs.  

 Something that can easily be applied to subscription based games as well BTW.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Free 2 Play blurs the distinction between achievers and purchasers.

 

I have a cool mount in Runes of Magic.

Did I do some long quest chain?  No.

Did my character slay some mega-boss?  No.

Did I grind reputation for hours? No.

 

How did I get it?  Credit card.

 

See the blur?  Am I an achiever for having my mount?

 

 Odd, and here I thought I saw a TON of people with those wonderful pay only mounts in WoW...same with those pets...and the pets from the Blizzcon...btw, those examples are not "achievers" those examples are epeeners who require being able to brag about an item instead of bragging about FUN PLAYING THE GAME!

Originally posted by XAPGames

Free 2 Play blurs the distinction between achievers and purchasers.

 

I have a cool mount in Runes of Magic.

Did I do some long quest chain?  No.

Did my character slay some mega-boss?  No.

Did I grind reputation for hours? No.

 

How did I get it?  Credit card.

 

See the blur?  Am I an achiever for having my mount?

 

World of Warcraft cash shop mounts. Are you an achiever for having a mount? Probably not, mounts are pretty common in any game with them and easy to get to boot.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Free 2 Play blurs the distinction between achievers and purchasers.

 

I have a cool mount in Runes of Magic.

Did I do some long quest chain?  No.

Did my character slay some mega-boss?  No.

Did I grind reputation for hours? No.

 

How did I get it?  Credit card.

 

See the blur?  Am I an achiever for having my mount?

 

Ehm sure but you can buy mounts in WoW too and Rift and most other p2p mmos have a cash shop these days and they sell you that on top of the sub, the boxes for the game and the xpacs.

I don't like being nickled and dimed in the games I play period. Specially when it comes to slowing my progression or halting it to entice me to buy things to keep everything at a normal pace.  I have yet to see a F2P title that truly only let me pay for the features I want.

For instance I could care less about raids so I feel it should be an optional payment option. I want F2P titles work the same way my TV Provider does. I can pick and choose between the programs I want and only pay for those period. Not having a multitude of channels part of a package I will never use.

I like PvP so that should be one of the features you could add as well. And avoid paying for if you have no interest.

These are just examples but I feel it should extend far beyond that instead of just adding roadblocks to a game to get you to buy things

Originally posted by XAPGames

Free 2 Play blurs the distinction between achievers and purchasers.

 

I have a cool mount in Runes of Magic.

Did I do some long quest chain?  No.

Did my character slay some mega-boss?  No.

Did I grind reputation for hours? No.

 

How did I get it?  Credit card.

 

See the blur?  Am I an achiever for having my mount?

 

Can you get that same mount from doing anything in game ? It's not really blurred if the only way to get it is from the cash shop or in game AH from someone selling it.

Most real achiements can't be paid for. In a well desinged game this isn't an issue. The problem of course that isn't just limited to f2p is...well desinged games are rare.

Originally posted by Starpower

I don't like being nickled and dimed in the games I play period. Specially when it comes to slowing my progression or halting it to entice me to buy things to keep everything at a normal pace.  I have yet to see a F2P title that truly only let me pay for the features I want.

 

For instance I could care less about raids so I feel it should be an optional payment option. I want F2P titles work the same way my TV Provider does. I can pick and choose between the programs I want and only pay for those period. Not having a multitude of channels part of a package I will never use.

Donno about modularity but you could try Neverwinter when it's out or one of the other Cryptic games as they allow you to earn microtransaction points via in-game currency transactions (dilithum to cryptic points in STO for example).

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Exactly ^^ bottom line is how much you pay on average on month, and if you can pay more to get in unfair advantage, or worse to avoid a disadvantage. I would suggest $60 a year over and above box prices seems like good value.

the first year of a sub game is $215

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Starpower

I don't like being nickled and dimed in the games I play period. Specially when it comes to slowing my progression or halting it to entice me to buy things to keep everything at a normal pace.  I have yet to see a F2P title that truly only let me pay for the features I want.

 

For instance I could care less about raids so I feel it should be an optional payment option. I want F2P titles work the same way my TV Provider does. I can pick and choose between the programs I want and only pay for those period. Not having a multitude of channels part of a package I will never use.

Donno about modularity but you could try Neverwinter when it's out or one of the other Cryptic games as they allow you to earn microtransaction points via in-game currency transactions (dilithum to cryptic points in STO for example).

Thanks for the offer but I highly doubt Cryptic will ever produce anything I will be even remotely interested in. Pick another developer for me. Preferably one with a better track record

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Yup and I think good value in this day and age is €60 over and above box. ( based on proof provided by Anet that you can produce an aaa mmorg on lower costs)

 Is it though?

No doubt it is good value to you as the consumer, thats not what I mean.

Would GW2 be able to offer that value if they didn't receive income from the CS?

developers are focusing on "how can we force inconvenience that can be circumvented by the cash shop" vs "how can we cause enjoyment for people who already pay and who we want to keep paying".

simple. there's no other reason they'd limit bag space for example.  ther's no technical limitation. They do it to inconvenience you on purpose.

I'm not going to pay someone who deicates his career to inconveniencing me.

There's only something wrong with the models listed below:

Freemium - a DLC system that so limits the play of the player that one could argue the player can't experience the full range of content that the game has to offer. Such systems restrict inventory, trait progression, virtual location, loot, character roles, mail, chat, sales in auctions all in the pursuit to prevent the player from experience any part of the game for free. These games are designed solely around greed and are never a good practice as it harms the playerbase and you tend to lose players this way not gain them. They are often built around the idea that you can force people to pay a monthly fee, which sets this model separate from what people normally call F2P.

F2P - is a system that allows players to enjoy a limited gameplay only in a minor way. There are methods in game in this model that allow for the player to collect in game via normal gameplay a convertable currency that can be used in their store. The only DLC that is required to play are expansions. This model has enhancements to gameplay much like the others but includes low level starter packs and starter gear. Only some games restrict character classes/roles most do not. No subscription exists for this type of monetization model.

B2P - is a system that allows the full range of the gameplay with almost no restriction. The only DLCs are 1 yr anniversary expansions. the only ui restrictions are bank/bag slots and character slots. Few enhancements are in the store, only for the purposes of improving the leveling process. Nothing gamechanging is in the store. This model includes the ability to purchase currency that can be converted into currency used in game directly from the developer. This is rarely abused by developers but sometimes becomes an issue when the developers limit in game currency gathering to almost nothing (GW2). There is no subscription for this type monetization model.

Subshop (trial) - is a system that allows the play of the game only through a subscription model but also has a shop where players can gain advantages from gear, mounts, and enhancements via a store. This game usually has a trial that allows the players to play the game only to a miniscule portion and stops it there. (WoW/Rift) This type of model is the least common as most games are now leaving the subscription model behind for the freemium model as very few games can keep this model going for very long unless there are unusual circumstances involved (WoW).

I personally like the F2P model. LOTRO had a sortof cross between F2P and Freemium for a while. It was the happiest I've been with a game for a while until STO's purchase by PW. PW really turned STO around and included a fantastic feature for currency that allows a player to purchase Zen (their currency) to be withdrawn from the game and stored on one's account. When you do this you can use that currency on any of their other game title's stores. It's a nice system. I think PW's F2P is the best system out there honestly.

I was a strong advocate for GW2 until Nov 15th when they decided it was more important to herd people to the gem store for gold then it was to fix their game. It was the biggest disappointment I've ever dealt with in the gaming world. People need to know that end game is where you'll have difficulties just getting enough gold to travel much less gearing your toon if you are a new player. They royally screwed the pooch on that one.