Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by supertouchme

Originally posted by Normandy7
Don't see how this is humanly possible. The game isn't very good in my opinion. Both auction houses ruined the entire Diablo experience.

it isn't very good. people always seem to underestimate the power of marketing and reputation. it sold precisely because it was made by blizzard and it was a sequel in a successful series.

 

D3 is an excellent ARPG. It could have been made by "Bill the ARPG Guy" instead of Blizzard and I still would have bought it.

This is how good D3 is. It sold 12 million copies due to the popularity of both Diablo 2 and WoW. 12 million!!!!

Now recently a new ARPG hit the market named Path of Exile. It reached 65k concurrent users this transulates to around 500k active accounts.

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

That means out of 12 million paying players only 500k+ are actualy active players now... 

I wouldnt call D3 a good game after seeing those numbers and Blizzard were certainly unhappy with the way Diablo 3 turned out... proven by Jay Wilsons exit from D3 development. 

Any argument you try to make crashes when you bring XFire users into the equation.

Originally posted by Z3R01

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

D3 is 10 month old. PoE is just released. If PoE has similar concurrent user as Diablo 3 in 10 month, then i will agree with you.

In fact, if you track Borderlands 2 ... when it first released in Sep 2012, it was higher than D3. Now it is #38, way below D3.

I think Blizz should be very happy.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by supertouchme

Originally posted by Normandy7
Don't see how this is humanly possible. The game isn't very good in my opinion. Both auction houses ruined the entire Diablo experience.

it isn't very good. people always seem to underestimate the power of marketing and reputation. it sold precisely because it was made by blizzard and it was a sequel in a successful series.

 

D3 is an excellent ARPG. It could have been made by "Bill the ARPG Guy" instead of Blizzard and I still would have bought it.

This is how good D3 is. It sold 12 million copies due to the popularity of both Diablo 2 and WoW. 12 million!!!!

Now recently a new ARPG hit the market named Path of Exile. It reached 65k concurrent users this transulates to around 500k active accounts.

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

That means out of 12 million paying players only 500k+ are actualy active players now... 

I wouldnt call D3 a good game after seeing those numbers and Blizzard were certainly unhappy with the way Diablo 3 turned out... proven by Jay Wilsons exit from D3 development. 

1. PoE is new. People are still "beating the game" for the first time. I wonder how many concurrent users where online when D3 launched.

2. PoE is free. That in itself opens the door for all the free-player users.

3. 500k is nowhere near 12Million...

D3 wasn't perfect. Neither is PoE. The difference is PoE doesn't have to deal with the over-user expectations that D3 had. If D3 was just a stand alone, non-diablo series ARPG, I highly doubt ANYONE but the most entitled of people would ever call it a bad game.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by supertouchme

Originally posted by Normandy7
Don't see how this is humanly possible. The game isn't very good in my opinion. Both auction houses ruined the entire Diablo experience.

it isn't very good. people always seem to underestimate the power of marketing and reputation. it sold precisely because it was made by blizzard and it was a sequel in a successful series.

 

D3 is an excellent ARPG. It could have been made by "Bill the ARPG Guy" instead of Blizzard and I still would have bought it.

This is how good D3 is. It sold 12 million copies due to the popularity of both Diablo 2 and WoW. 12 million!!!!

Now recently a new ARPG hit the market named Path of Exile. It reached 65k concurrent users this transulates to around 500k active accounts.

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

That means out of 12 million paying players only 500k+ are actualy active players now... 

I wouldnt call D3 a good game after seeing those numbers and Blizzard were certainly unhappy with the way Diablo 3 turned out... proven by Jay Wilsons exit from D3 development. 

 

1. PoE is new. People are still "beating the game" for the first time. I wonder how many concurrent users where online when D3 launched.

 

2. PoE is free. That in itself opens the door for all the free-player users.

 

3. 500k is nowhere near 12Million...

 

D3 wasn't perfect. Neither is PoE. The difference is PoE doesn't have to deal with the over-user expectations that D3 had. If D3 was just a stand alone, non-diablo series ARPG, I highly doubt ANYONE but the most entitled of people would ever call it a bad game.

Addition: Without the Diablo name D3 would be considered a terrible ARPG. it lacks the core features that made the ARPG genre what it is today. Name means nothing release a ARPG with a AH, garbage drops, no builds, no online competition (pve or pvp), no randomized content and you would be dead before you started. 

I was pointing out the massive 11.5 million active user drop off of D3... not poe doing well.

PoE is an indie game, its a hardcore niche product.

Its a fact that poE had that many concurrent users at that point so i was easy to gage how many active players were left in D3 since they were very close on the XFire rankings (10 and 11 last i checked)

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Most of them are blizzard fanbois in denial, they can't accept that blizzard could make a bad game so they are forcing themselves to like it.

I'd accept it if it ever happens. Still waiting tho...

Every Blizzard game i've ever played, including The Lost Viking, has been excellent.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Most of them are blizzard fanbois in denial, they can't accept that blizzard could make a bad game so they are forcing themselves to like it.

Nah .. i think the haters are in denial. They dismiss that D3 sold 12M, and that it is still up there in xfire numbers after 10 month.

What is the excuse when the expansion sold millions? Oh, it is a bad expansion .. because "i said so"?

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by supertouchme

Originally posted by Normandy7
Don't see how this is humanly possible. The game isn't very good in my opinion. Both auction houses ruined the entire Diablo experience.

it isn't very good. people always seem to underestimate the power of marketing and reputation. it sold precisely because it was made by blizzard and it was a sequel in a successful series.

 

D3 is an excellent ARPG. It could have been made by "Bill the ARPG Guy" instead of Blizzard and I still would have bought it.

This is how good D3 is. It sold 12 million copies due to the popularity of both Diablo 2 and WoW. 12 million!!!!

Now recently a new ARPG hit the market named Path of Exile. It reached 65k concurrent users this transulates to around 500k active accounts.

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

That means out of 12 million paying players only 500k+ are actualy active players now... 

I wouldnt call D3 a good game after seeing those numbers and Blizzard were certainly unhappy with the way Diablo 3 turned out... proven by Jay Wilsons exit from D3 development. 

Any argument you try to make crashes when you bring XFire users into the equation.

My numbers are all facts from outside sources not within Xfire... all Xfire is used for is to see trends. Blizzard released the number of D3 sales itself, GGG released the number of concurrent users and active accounts itself. Using the Xfire to see these games are both trending pn par with each other you can see that diablo 3 has around a 90% active user decline...

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Z3R01

According to Xfire Diablo 3 and Path fo Exile have similar concurrent users online atm.

D3 is 10 month old. PoE is just released. If PoE has similar concurrent user as Diablo 3 in 10 month, then i will agree with you.

In fact, if you track Borderlands 2 ... when it first released in Sep 2012, it was higher than D3. Now it is #38, way below D3.

I think Blizz should be very happy.

As much as people would like to compare Borderlands 2 to a Diablo like game it in no way has the replay value of a game like D3, PoE or TL2... its a FPS you play a few times and uninstall... its like Darksiders 2. A game with decent replay value that shares similarities with diablo but its really only a action game made to be played a few times. So it makes no sense to compare them.

Keep in mind what i just posted shows a 90% drop off of Diablo 3 active players... If you think Blizzard is happy with that you are nuts... If they were happy with it Jay Wilsom would still be working on D3s expansion...

I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?

Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.

because people are completely responsible and informed prior to purchasing something from a company.....yeah

<---- was proud to be one of the 60% of gamers that left D3 post launch because of it's horrible design flaws. Won't be buying another blizz product ever again.

Originally posted by Psychow

I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?

 

Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.

Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.

Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%. 

That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed. 

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?

 

Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.

Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.

Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%. 

That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed. 

D2 did not have the on-line competition there is today. I'm not saying D2 wasn't awesome, I'm saying gamers have more choices now than they once did.

Also, the type of players that internet in almost every home has broght in is different then the old days. I can see people getting internet for the sole purpose of playing D2, where as today, playing games on-line is just another thing to do.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Psychow

I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?

 

Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.

Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.

Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%. 

That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed. 

 

D2 did not have the on-line competition there is today. I'm not saying D2 wasn't awesome, I'm saying gamers have more choices now than they once did.

 

Also, the type of players that internet in almost every home has broght in is different then the old days. I can see people getting internet for the sole purpose of playing D2, where as today, playing games on-line is just another thing to do.

Thats true but its still a large drop off. Diablo 3 should have been much better than what it was. It was still good but due to certain design decisions the games lifespan was cut short for quite a few people. 

Look at Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile. Those two games are nowhere as popular as Diablo but they both have mechanics that keep existing players playing. Be it randomized content, Maps, crafting and/or online competiton. 

Diablo 3 is seriously lacking in features. Look at gamespy.com and on the front page they compare all three games unique features. only features that make D3 unique are the AH and free respecs... thats terrible imo.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cod_Eye

And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again. 

 

Before ranting at me, I jest.

Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?

I am one of those millions.

One simply can't argue against quality games.

Sales do not necessarily mean quality.

McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.

Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk

Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.

Rowling sells more books than Goethe.

I guess you get the idea.

 

And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.

 

McDonalds may be a low cost leader

Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience

Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.

 

With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.

 

And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.

 

I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.

 

If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.

Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.

I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.

And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.

Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

---

Originally posted by dimnikar
Hilarous how people start with conspiracy theories about fake numbers with the sub definition disclaimer right there in the first post.

 

 

I am simply FORCED to conclude the vast majority of you here are incapable of comprehending text.

 

It's not even legalese, for Pete's sake.

---

Oh, most people dont think Blizzard is lying they just think that Asian subscribers shouldnt count because "Asian" automatically means Chinese and Chinese players pay "pennies on the hour".

 

They then have a "well thought out and researched" reason as to why Chinese subscribers comprise "80% to 90%" of total WoW subscribers.

And if you point out something like "wait, then how can WoW make $1 billion a year in revenue if 90% of the player base subscribes for pennies?" well theres a perfectly "logical" answer for that too. Its because Blizzard "steals" from its players by charging for services like server transfers and race changes or selling mounts.

Because as we all know selling mounts or pets once a year that generates a couple million in cash adds up to a billion every year.

For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cod_Eye

And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again. 

 

Before ranting at me, I jest.

Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?

I am one of those millions.

One simply can't argue against quality games.

Sales do not necessarily mean quality.

McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.

Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk

Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.

Rowling sells more books than Goethe.

I guess you get the idea.

 

And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.

 

McDonalds may be a low cost leader

Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience

Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.

 

With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.

 

And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.

 

I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.

 

If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.

Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.

I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.

And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.

Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.

The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?

Originally posted by Z3R01

Look at Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile. Those two games are nowhere as popular as Diablo but they both have mechanics that keep existing players playing. Be it randomized content, Maps, crafting and/or online competiton. 

Diablo 3 is seriously lacking in features. Look at gamespy.com and on the front page they compare all three games unique features. only features that make D3 unique are the AH and free respecs... thats terrible imo.

And yet where is TL2? #141 on xfire. If you look at the graph, the decline is much steeper than D3. In fact, TL2 is LOWER in rank than D2.

So much about keeping existing players. D3 is doing much better than TL2.

Now as for PoE, we shall see in 10 months.

Originally posted by Z3R01

 

As much as people would like to compare Borderlands 2 to a Diablo like game it in no way has the replay value of a game like D3, PoE or TL2... its a FPS you play a few times and uninstall... its like Darksiders 2. A game with decent replay value that shares similarities with diablo but its really only a action game made to be played a few times. So it makes no sense to compare them.

And yet Borderland 2 is much higher on the xfire chart than TL2. If you look at the graph, it also retains players BETTER than Tl2.

So i would say you are wrong. It has better replay value than TL2, just not as much as D3.

Originally posted by fivoroth

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

---

Originally posted by dimnikar
Hilarous how people start with conspiracy theories about fake numbers with the sub definition disclaimer right there in the first post.

 

 

I am simply FORCED to conclude the vast majority of you here are incapable of comprehending text.

 

It's not even legalese, for Pete's sake.

---

Oh, most people dont think Blizzard is lying they just think that Asian subscribers shouldnt count because "Asian" automatically means Chinese and Chinese players pay "pennies on the hour".

 

They then have a "well thought out and researched" reason as to why Chinese subscribers comprise "80% to 90%" of total WoW subscribers.

And if you point out something like "wait, then how can WoW make $1 billion a year in revenue if 90% of the player base subscribes for pennies?" well theres a perfectly "logical" answer for that too. Its because Blizzard "steals" from its players by charging for services like server transfers and race changes or selling mounts.

Because as we all know selling mounts or pets once a year that generates a couple million in cash adds up to a billion every year.

For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.

 

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cod_Eye

And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again. 

 

Before ranting at me, I jest.

Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?

I am one of those millions.

One simply can't argue against quality games.

Sales do not necessarily mean quality.

McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.

Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk

Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.

Rowling sells more books than Goethe.

I guess you get the idea.

 

And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.

 

McDonalds may be a low cost leader

Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience

Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.

 

With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.

 

And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.

 

I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.

 

If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.

Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.

I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.

And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.

Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.

The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?

I did say I am aware it's just a matter of taste, didn't I. And I never said that my opinion is more valid that anybody else's. It's just that that sales are not a valid argument when discussing quality. Simple as. WoW players are always using sales as an argument to support their opinion about their game beeing good. Well, sorry but I won't consider that a valid argument. Or, as we say in my country, "millions of flies can't be wrong: eat shit and fly".

---

Originally posted by fivoroth

For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.

---

However, Taiwan has a monthly subscription, around $10 a month. The Taiwan version also doesnt have the crazy restrictions set by the Chinese government so any Chinese players serious about the game plays the Taiwanese version.