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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » F2P people get what they deserve

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93 posts found
  User Deleted
2/12/13 1:40:49 PM#61
Originally posted by jtcgs
keep saying whatever you need to in order to try to hide the fact that you are getting suckered out of money every month.

That was my thought exactly. Weird that people take pride in getting duped. How can there be any pride in people getting taken for their money it's like walking around strutting because you pay a power bill when there are perfectly viable home generators, or strutting because you pay a water bill when there are perfectly viable water reclamation/purification units.

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1076

2/12/13 1:50:03 PM#62

Seeing how easily companies do F2P conversion I have began to wonder if they could still provide different versions of the game. The balanced subscription based version and the P2W F2P version of the game.

There are many awesome F2P games that a ruined by the P2W cash shop and could easily function as a P2P game. (Looking at you Atlantica Online).

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2456

MMO gamer since 1997

2/12/13 2:19:05 PM#63

F2p works well in other gaming genres.

I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.

 

TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little. 

Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

2/12/13 2:23:25 PM#64
The 3rd best MMO I have ever played since 1999 is a FTP game. Of course that would be the only FTP game what could stand against AAA games.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19158

2/12/13 2:26:54 PM#65
Originally posted by Z3R01

F2p works well in other gaming genres.

I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.

 

TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little. 

Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.

That is not the model. You do NOT need a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the devs. The model is to have a few players play a lot (whales) instead of having a large chunk of the playerbase paying.

 

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2456

MMO gamer since 1997

2/12/13 2:49:07 PM#66
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Z3R01

F2p works well in other gaming genres.

I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.

 

TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little. 

Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.

That is not the model. You do NOT need a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the devs. The model is to have a few players play a lot (whales) instead of having a large chunk of the playerbase paying.

 

If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around. 

In other genres f2p games live off small micro payments from a very high % of players. Its not 5% of the community spending hundreds of dollars each a month. Its people buying starter packs, paying 5 dollars for XP boosts and maybe unlocking a gun. There are "whales" but those games dont overlly rely on them like MMOs do with the f2p model.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19158

2/12/13 2:54:10 PM#67
Originally posted by Z3R01
 

If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around. 

 

There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?

DDO is still running.

LOTRO is still running.

DCUO is still running.

the list goes on and on.

And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

2/12/13 2:56:54 PM#68
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.

So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.

I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19158

2/12/13 3:00:57 PM#69
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.

So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.

I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.

Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.

And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.

 

 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

2/12/13 3:14:06 PM#70
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.

So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.

I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.

Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.

And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.

I respect the way you play and pay, but I'm on the other side of the spectrum.  I'm definitely not a whale (at least compared to what I used to spend on sub-locked p2p games), but I'm the type that does spend money on my games.

@Ref - I don't stick to one game which is why I love sub-free games (both f2p and b2p - they're about the same to me), but I also spend money on the games I like and play a lot.  I don't see the free portion as a trial because my favorite games don't lock much, if any, content behind the paywall.  However, I do get account and character enhancements that provide what I consider a superior game play experience compared to not paying.

For example, I love rolling alts in most games so I tend to purchase extra character slots.  I buy inventory and bank slots.  I will occasionally buy a mount or some other item.  I tend to buy account unlocks where possible rather than character only items/unlocks because it adds value to the entire game for me.  I will also occasionally subscribe or buy a month or two of premium account status if that provides higher long term value to the account than purchasing unlocks in the store.

So far, my spending per game is about $100 per year or less which is less than what I had been spending on sub-locked games.  The games I'm playing now are Tera, GW2, STO, and TSW.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

2/12/13 3:15:54 PM#71
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.

So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.

I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.

Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.

And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.

I respect the way you play and pay, but I'm on the other side of the spectrum.  I'm definitely not a whale (at least compared to what I used to spend on sub-locked p2p games), but I'm the type that does spend money on my games.

@Ref - I don't stick to one game which is why I love sub-free games (both f2p and b2p - they're about the same to me), but I also spend money on the games I like and play a lot.  I don't see the free portion as a trial because my favorite games don't lock much, if any, content behind the paywall.  However, I do get account and character enhancements that provide what I consider a superior game play experience compared to not paying.

For example, I love rolling alts in most games so I tend to purchase extra character slots.  I buy inventory and bank slots.  I will occasionally buy a mount or some other item.  I tend to buy account unlocks where possible rather than character only items/unlocks because it adds value to the entire game for me.  I will also occasionally subscribe or buy a month or two of premium account status if that provides higher long term value to the account than purchasing unlocks in the store.

So far, my spending per game is about $100 per year or less which is less than what I had been spending on sub-locked games.  The games I'm playing now are Tera, GW2, STO, and TSW.

My comment was specific to Narius who has stated he will not pay a cent for his gaming.

  Ergload

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/12
Posts: 179

2/12/13 3:32:11 PM#72
I like the f2p model in Achaea and other MUDs. They are f2p, there's an in-game cash shop, and you can subscribe to an elite membership that gives you XP bonus and monthly tokens to spend at cash shop. If you want to play COMPLETELY f2p, you can grind to make gold to buy cash-shop tokens from other players. So if you dont mind grinding you can be pretty competitive vs people who spend $$$. It works for everyone imo.


Currently playing: Achaea

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

2/12/13 3:36:50 PM#73

complain about f2p, hmm, sounds strange..

from here:
are good and bad games:
- good games have subs and/or buy to play, item shop payments (WoW has all said), all works good, they have money, few people suggest something etc.
- bad game also can have sub, but it fail; buy to play, but people complain about; item shop, but nobody use it. Worst cases however.

usually games are somehow medium quality and some people want them to get better, so devs or listen and win customers; or block every post and loose deal.

I think are no best payment model, but good game with good income and large population (even if whole auditory wants just to buy might) or failing subs and no income.

from here to pay 200$ for develop game quality of which is unknown, I would tell: no thanks as I'll never buy an empty game box, for example, or sub before game release.

so to me it's not a payment model but game QUALITY is primordial.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

2/12/13 4:32:11 PM#74
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.

So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.

I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.

Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.

And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.

I respect the way you play and pay, but I'm on the other side of the spectrum.  I'm definitely not a whale (at least compared to what I used to spend on sub-locked p2p games), but I'm the type that does spend money on my games.

@Ref - I don't stick to one game which is why I love sub-free games (both f2p and b2p - they're about the same to me), but I also spend money on the games I like and play a lot.  I don't see the free portion as a trial because my favorite games don't lock much, if any, content behind the paywall.  However, I do get account and character enhancements that provide what I consider a superior game play experience compared to not paying.

For example, I love rolling alts in most games so I tend to purchase extra character slots.  I buy inventory and bank slots.  I will occasionally buy a mount or some other item.  I tend to buy account unlocks where possible rather than character only items/unlocks because it adds value to the entire game for me.  I will also occasionally subscribe or buy a month or two of premium account status if that provides higher long term value to the account than purchasing unlocks in the store.

So far, my spending per game is about $100 per year or less which is less than what I had been spending on sub-locked games.  The games I'm playing now are Tera, GW2, STO, and TSW.

My comment was specific to Narius who has stated he will not pay a cent for his gaming.

I understand that and was merely contrasting that by showing there are different sorts of people who play sub-free games.  Since it was a public post I felt mostly free to comment with the knowledge that I might be subject to clownfaced retribution.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

2/12/13 4:35:56 PM#75
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Z3R01

If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around. 

There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?

DDO is still running.

LOTRO is still running.

DCUO is still running.

the list goes on and on.

And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.

I'm not entirely convinced that whales are the majority subsidizers anymore, at least in most western based games.  In my sub-free games with cash shops you can only spend so much before there isn't much to spend on.  It's not like spending $100+ a month gets you anywhere faster or gives you a better experience than $10 - $30 per month.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2799

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

2/12/13 4:39:02 PM#76

My problem is a lot of F2P models are cash grabs, a LOT more then the P2P model. In a f2p model unfortunately it often can rake in MORE cash from loyal players to the game as they try to milk you in a lot more ways.

 

The thing is as well, a lot of Eastern games have actually really amazing F2P models that are very open, very little of the cash shop goods even being 'needed' in order to fully experience the game. Its very possible to have a good F2P model without major advantages or raking in a lot more cash from players who would of paid monthly, but the problem is to many games make profits far above gameplay and in this area, I feel they suffer down the road more then they realize. 

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

2/12/13 4:42:08 PM#77

as a f2p player in aoc I spent at launch about 200 dollars, Im glad I can play now for free cause not once did I feel O got my money's worth.

 

As a free player, I slaughtered 2 people my level with my hox ,. they where both 4 levels higher them...

 

I really think Blizzard should close the doors and leave the mmo industry, cause this is the 3rd type assualt on a model excepted by all mmo companies BUT blizzard.

 

It is so transparent who is making these posts,,,as there new title is about tolaunch with over 100+million invested....

 

 

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7120

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

2/12/13 4:44:51 PM#78
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Z3R01

If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around. 

There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?

DDO is still running.

LOTRO is still running.

DCUO is still running.

the list goes on and on.

And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.

I'm not entirely convinced that whales are the majority subsidizers anymore, at least in most western based games.  In my sub-free games with cash shops you can only spend so much before there isn't much to spend on.  It's not like spending $100+ a month gets you anywhere faster or gives you a better experience than $10 - $30 per month.

 

Are there many cash shop games that don't offer instance reset scrolls, or xp buff pots, or drop multipliers, or whatever else then?

I am sure there is a huge invisible market market in all types of consumables to the player that feels driven to be competitive.... Especially when the XP or drop rate or whatever is unspokenly lowered after conversion to manipulate the player into spending.  

Consumables are where the money is made really, you probably just don't see them being consumed.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

2/12/13 4:45:46 PM#79
Ive actually spent more onm f2p games then a subscription as well.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1990

2/12/13 4:56:21 PM#80

When I play for free I feel no sense of entitlement except of course that I'm entitled to move on when the game isn't fun anymore.  It's when I spend a little money and the game gets radically changed to add grind that can be shortened through the cash shop that I get pissed off.  

 

But I don't have to worry about that anymore.  I refuse to spend any more money on this gaming genre, so I'm set.  You cash shoppers can pay my way and I'll play whatever whenever.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

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