Originally posted by jayfeeler69
We have to remember anything craptic touches is well crap. They ruined Star Trek remember? Placing D & D on an mmo and having it be nothing like D & D is a disgrace. It will be f2p quicker than CO and STO. Of course Bill Murphy will say its great, he has to until it releases so he can get ad revenues. Its why no one takes MMORPG.COMs previews seriously. Remember when they told us TSW and FFXIV were great?

Um...it IS free to play...and have you played TSW? TSW is great...just different.

Good post.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]

However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.

For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.

Ye when i saw the 5 classes and the free aim combat i was totaly dissapointed.

The point is that if they want to release a successful dnd game they should have all the classes from the beggining plus some prestige classes and of course multiclassing available and all of that on a seamless world without instances and shit.

On the free aim matter i was never been a fan of this.Ddo was enough to make me regret playing that kind of combat.

Another big let down is the few skills available in combat.If i want to play a game with 6 skills on my character i would rather play a moba style game.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by MadDemon64

Originally posted by jayfeeler69

Originally posted by Mondo80

How many classes do you need?  STO has 3, oh wait you guys hate that game and by proxy this one because Cryptic also made it.  EVE has one class that can do anything and probably less content than STO. 

 

If it's because it's free to play with an OPTIONAL cash shop that will most likely have a way to earn Zen in game, ...

It has not release yet.  Prejudging at this point is just stupid.

Name one good craptic game

Lets see now, there is Champions Online, Star Trek Online, City of Heroes/Villains (when it was still open).

That's all I can name, but coincidentally, those are all the games that Cryptic released.  Of course, if you don't like it, that's your opinion, but your opinion regarding whether or not it is the kind of game you want to play does not affect the quality of the game.  Please do not confuse these two in the future.

Most people would probably debate you on the merits of those mentioned games.

Well you can debate me on the quality of STO all day long, PW saved that game and unfortunately, the producers often have their hands in the design of the game title but in this case it was very fortunate. I thought before PW took over that I had wasted money on STO now I'm enjoying it immensely because of the balance.

I really think the savior of this game will be the foundry system, at least i hope it is.

From what ive seen view youtube beta videos and press reviews, the game looks very unimpressive.

It is kind of sad to see what is arguably the starting point for all mmorpgs that is D&D lore/rules bring to market such...half baked games always...i mean the owners of the IP must be sitting on a mountain of money at this point.  Why not make a full fledged, decent mmorpg?

Also...its kind of strange how D&D games never quite focus on what D&D does best, and thats its rulesets.  Its kind of like a vote of no-confidence to have at your disposal rulesets that people seem to really love, so much so that they dont even need a visual game to enjoy them...to just ignore all that and make a standard issue shallow mmorpg is nuts...what a waste of an IP.

Now im not saying this game isnt going to be fun, and with the foundry potential im sure it will get better with time.  It just seems with 5 man dungeons, a total lack of classes, customization, and overall depth...when so much is at their disposal with this lore...its baffling to me.

Its like a star wars the next episode with mmorpgs of sorts to see the lore used as a slight backdrop, when the whole game could be chalked full of that very same lore.

Do they not think this IP is good enough?

Oh and ill play this game for sure, only reason i haven forked over money to test their beta of a free game is because Perfect World is involved.  Otherwise i really could look past the fact that i was paying to test a game that will be free and support the cause or whatever.  I think i can wait this one out until launch...im not expecting much more than a decent dungeon crawler...just so pissed they settled on 5 man dungeons...reall the most shallow dungeon team is a 5 man...no room for experementation, no room for diffrent dungeon group set up..just the bare boring minimum of tank/heals and your dpsers.  Oh how i miss larger dungeon groups where you could get a bit creative past the standard 5 you need.  not that this game has the classes to support such a system though.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I really think the savior of this game will be the foundry system, at least i hope it is.

From what ive seen view youtube beta videos and press reviews, the game looks very unimpressive.

It is kind of sad to see what is arguably the starting point for all mmorpgs that is D&D lore/rules bring to market such...half baked games always...i mean the owners of the IP must be sitting on a mountain of money at this point.  Why not make a full fledged, decent mmorpg?

Also...its kind of strange how D&D games never quite focus on what D&D does best, and thats its rulesets.  Its kind of like a vote of no-confidence to have at your disposal rulesets that people seem to really love, so much so that they dont even need a visual game to enjoy them...to just ignore all that and make a standard issue shallow mmorpg is nuts...what a waste of an IP.

Now im not saying this game isnt going to be fun, and with the foundry potential im sure it will get better with time.  It just seems with 5 man dungeons, a total lack of classes, customization, and overall depth...when so much is at their disposal with this lore...its baffling to me.

 

Its like a star wars the next episode with mmorpgs of sorts to see the lore used as a slight backdrop, when the whole game could be chalked full of that very same lore.

 

Do they not think this IP is good enough?

 

Oh and ill play this game for sure, only reason i haven forked over money to test their beta of a free game is because Perfect World is involved.  Otherwise i really could look past the fact that i was paying to test a game that will be free and support the cause or whatever.  I think i can wait this one out until launch...im not expecting much more than a decent dungeon crawler...just so pissed they settled on 5 man dungeons...reall the most shallow dungeon team is a 5 man...no room for experementation, no room for diffrent dungeon group set up..just the bare boring minimum of tank/heals and your dpsers.  Oh how i miss larger dungeon groups where you could get a bit creative past the standard 5 you need.  not that this game has the classes to support such a system though.

 

curious what everyones beef with PW is? PWI was a fun game the few i know that play STO said its a TON better game since it went to PW,  both torchlight games seem to of done well.. don't understand the hate towards them..

I do agree though for me the big "thing" for this game is the foundry system.. hope it delivers for me

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by MadDemon64

Originally posted by jayfeeler69

Originally posted by Mondo80

How many classes do you need?  STO has 3, oh wait you guys hate that game and by proxy this one because Cryptic also made it.  EVE has one class that can do anything and probably less content than STO. 

 

If it's because it's free to play with an OPTIONAL cash shop that will most likely have a way to earn Zen in game, ...

It has not release yet.  Prejudging at this point is just stupid.

Name one good craptic game

Lets see now, there is Champions Online, Star Trek Online, City of Heroes/Villains (when it was still open).

That's all I can name, but coincidentally, those are all the games that Cryptic released.  Of course, if you don't like it, that's your opinion, but your opinion regarding whether or not it is the kind of game you want to play does not affect the quality of the game.  Please do not confuse these two in the future.

Most people would probably debate you on the merits of those mentioned games.

Well you can debate me on the quality of STO all day long, PW saved that game and unfortunately, the producers often have their hands in the design of the game title but in this case it was very fortunate. I thought before PW took over that I had wasted money on STO now I'm enjoying it immensely because of the balance.

Agreed - STO is a ton better than it was at launch, and is a really fun game with some elements that are different from the norm.  It's definitely improved on PW's watch.

So far, I think they've done a great job with Neverwinter as well - it's a very solid game, with a lot of fun elements.  I am definitely looking forward to getting my hands on the Foundry, to satisfy the old GM in me.

Originally posted by ice-vortex
I wonder how many of these people whined that Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Dungeons & Dragons Heroes "aren't D&D".

The technology exists for an MMO to be like the PnP game but bring the best of the medium as well. This isn't being done, and you expect D&D fans to be happy about that?

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by ice-vortex
I wonder how many of these people whined that Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Dungeons & Dragons Heroes "aren't D&D".

The technology exists for an MMO to be like the PnP game but bring the best of the medium as well. This isn't being done, and you expect D&D fans to be happy about that?

Doesn't mean it would be fun. How many people would whine that their character was permakilled because of a lag spike or someone trained some mobs on them? What makes D&D fun is the imagination and the off the cuff roleplaying in a DM's tightly controlled world. The very nature of videogames prohibit that.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I really think the savior of this game will be the foundry system, at least i hope it is.

From what ive seen view youtube beta videos and press reviews, the game looks very unimpressive.

It is kind of sad to see what is arguably the starting point for all mmorpgs that is D&D lore/rules bring to market such...half baked games always...i mean the owners of the IP must be sitting on a mountain of money at this point.  Why not make a full fledged, decent mmorpg?

Also...its kind of strange how D&D games never quite focus on what D&D does best, and thats its rulesets.  Its kind of like a vote of no-confidence to have at your disposal rulesets that people seem to really love, so much so that they dont even need a visual game to enjoy them...to just ignore all that and make a standard issue shallow mmorpg is nuts...what a waste of an IP.

Now im not saying this game isnt going to be fun, and with the foundry potential im sure it will get better with time.  It just seems with 5 man dungeons, a total lack of classes, customization, and overall depth...when so much is at their disposal with this lore...its baffling to me.

 

Its like a star wars the next episode with mmorpgs of sorts to see the lore used as a slight backdrop, when the whole game could be chalked full of that very same lore.

 

Do they not think this IP is good enough?

 

Oh and ill play this game for sure, only reason i haven forked over money to test their beta of a free game is because Perfect World is involved.  Otherwise i really could look past the fact that i was paying to test a game that will be free and support the cause or whatever.  I think i can wait this one out until launch...im not expecting much more than a decent dungeon crawler...just so pissed they settled on 5 man dungeons...reall the most shallow dungeon team is a 5 man...no room for experementation, no room for diffrent dungeon group set up..just the bare boring minimum of tank/heals and your dpsers.  Oh how i miss larger dungeon groups where you could get a bit creative past the standard 5 you need.  not that this game has the classes to support such a system though.

 

Really sums up my frustration with not only Cryptic but Wizards of the Coast.

Originally posted by ice-vortex

Originally posted by ignore_me

The technology exists for an MMO to be like the PnP game but bring the best of the medium as well. This isn't being done, and you expect D&D fans to be happy about that?

Doesn't mean it would be fun. How many people would whine that their character was permakilled because of a lag spike or someone trained some mobs on them? What makes D&D fun is the imagination and the off the cuff roleplaying. The very nature of videogames prohibit that.

I think with this comment it's worth noting a particular point.

D&D is not an MMO. I know this is a 'no duh' remark, but it carries some implications with it.

First and foremost, the fact that a game is tailored to the interaction of a subset of players. The most accurate experience you can consequently have of a D&D game made digital is a multiplayer experience with a controllable scale of players.

Point in case. Neverwinter Nights. The game that bears the same city and world as the upcoming MMO, and a game still heralded as something nigh-perfect for the D&D RPG experience.

The very nature of an MMO is the core problem that is experienced here, not just the online play. MMO's as a genre tend to requie more limitations on the players so as to not break the game, and with the increased volume of players also comes the diminishing consequence of action.

If you wanted to take a purist stance, you would generally argue against a true mmo style implementation in favor of a more player controlled and modifiable multiplayer experience on an alterable scale.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that there is an apparent flipside to this as displayed in the post above mine with the quote in it by JimmyYO.

There is also the separata mindset that generally wants the idea of more flexibility out of a game, which D&D generally represents, without it necessarily baing like D&D.

Where a five man group for running a campaign is for general purposes essentially the average or norm for the tabletop experience, because it's both a manageable scale for the DM as well as being the optimal size for traditional team dynamics. The choice to settle upon that size for a group might make sense in context of preserving the tabletop experience, but if it's not supported by accompanying mechanics that also cater to that style of play, it ends up behaving more as a lobby style experience and opens itself to a very different dynamic.

It brings forth the question of the possibilities one could have in utilizing the D&D mechanics in a somewhat nontraditional way, by using the rules and arobotic DM that doesn't suffer the same kind of problems with group scale management might open up D&d games that have a kind of grander scale to it.

"The Foundry" user created content looks really interesting and I'm curious to see where they take the idea. The combat looks fun as well.

The rest of the game looks quite generic, though. Even the cinematic trailer they released was anemic and dull. Since it's F2P from the start I will probably give it a good try but from watching streams of the beta the game isn't really grabbing me so far.

The main difference between a MMO gameplay and D&D would be two things.

1. The ability to *kitten* a build and character.

Imagine weeks of play just to realize because of an error you did midway your character can now never reach the potential a powerbuild next to you has. Some early games like Ragnarok online would let you to build "bad combinations" but this lead to two things in the end: Either rerole or allow (limited?) overhauling and respeccing. But if i allow respeccing to prevent that players are stuck with bad builds and leave in frustration, why even bother with it at all? The content also would need to be more horizontal so that "bad" decisions and rerolling would not be that much of an burden.

But you see, reroling because you made a bad choice (or even worse! - Because some skills got rebalanced / fixed) isn't very popular among players, besides that you need to create a whole different approach to how you let people advance (rush to max level and tier progress raid gameplay would just block to many people).

2. The Dice.

How many times you see players "hate" over luck random enchants and the like. Now imagine you gear up to your teeth, did all the calculations and you end up facing the boss, the makes a lousy slayer check, you roll 1 autofail and instand die. Next round you're in with a twink group barely able to even just look at the boos. Boss rolls 1, three times they roll 20 and kill it.

That kind of gameplay is how D&D used to work out, and you build characters to increase your chances that was the thrill. But in the age of streamlined progression and "everyone always wins" the very core of D&D is just not popular among MMO players.

I believe there is a market for true D&D ruleset MMOs, however i would not expect a publisher or developer aiming for mainstream success would be able to deliver that expirience. Too much of an gamble because it would be fundamental different to what MMO mechanics and design are these days (Themepark clones).

Originally posted by JimmyYO

I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]

However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.

For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.

ACTUALLY it IS based on D&D rules kid. 4th edition? And did you really think they'd put in all the classes and races right from the go? For free? /facepalm

Originally posted by KroxMalon

Originally posted by JimmyYO

I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]

However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.

For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.

Tragic. Really?

Here are 10 tragic events in history. I hope not to offend anyone I got these of the web.

Just wanted to put the term tragic into perspective.

 

THE BHOPAL DISASTER

THE CHERNOBYL ACCIDENT

THE MV DONA PAZ TRAGEDY

THE HALIFAX EXPLOSION

THE 1990 HAJJ

THE KHODYNKA TRAGEDY

THE BATTLE OF RAMREE

THE SINKING OF THE USS INDIANAPOLIS

THE BIHAR TRAIN DISASTER

THE TENERIFE COLLISION

Go get laid dude please..

This. Not to mention he's obviously totally ignorant of 4th edition. This IS D&D.

The number of classes from launch is less interesting than the customization choices for those classes.

Rift for example have only 4 classes but plenty of customization and some games like UO had 1.

I am a lot more worried about how they translated the 4th edition rules, those are unplayable in pen and paper but they still might work for a computer game.

I havnt tried it yet but will give it a fair chanse.

Originally posted by KroxMalon

Tragic. Really?

Here are 10 tragic events in history. I hope not to offend anyone I got these of the web.

Just wanted to put the term tragic into perspective.

THE BHOPAL DISASTER

THE CHERNOBYL ACCIDENT

THE MV DONA PAZ TRAGEDY

THE HALIFAX EXPLOSION

THE 1990 HAJJ

THE KHODYNKA TRAGEDY

THE BATTLE OF RAMREE

THE SINKING OF THE USS INDIANAPOLIS

THE BIHAR TRAIN DISASTER

THE TENERIFE COLLISION

Go get laid dude please..

It is rather disturbing that you add the battle of Ramree and USS Indianapolis to the great disasters just because those were combat situations which didnt end up well for the US. That is no disaster (and frankly I wonder why you used them instead of the time the British burned down the white house in the war of 1812).

Bad luck or incompetence in war is not a disaster, just like a game isnt.

wow  if i say this about a game i get   bad emails but you seem to bash with your stupidity to put something  down  and talk trash  when you yet to try it your insane dude god grow up they sead 5 class 2 start more will be released  wow what have you done for the D&D  world besides complane grow up kid

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by KroxMalon

Tragic. Really?

Here are 10 tragic events in history. I hope not to offend anyone I got these of the web.

Just wanted to put the term tragic into perspective.

THE BHOPAL DISASTER

THE CHERNOBYL ACCIDENT

THE MV DONA PAZ TRAGEDY

THE HALIFAX EXPLOSION

THE 1990 HAJJ

THE KHODYNKA TRAGEDY

THE BATTLE OF RAMREE

THE SINKING OF THE USS INDIANAPOLIS

THE BIHAR TRAIN DISASTER

THE TENERIFE COLLISION

Go get laid dude please..

It is rather disturbing that you add the battle of Ramree and USS Indianapolis to the great disasters just because those were combat situations which didnt end up well for the US. That is no disaster (and frankly I wonder why you used them instead of the time the British burned down the white house in the war of 1812).

Bad luck or incompetence in war is not a disaster, just like a game isnt.

I disagree; seems to me that bad luck and incompetence are the two of the prime causes of disaster. But iin his defense, he did say he pulled the list from the web; so I doubt his personal opinion is invested. He also didn't call it a 'top' list, just a list of tragic events, and I think most people would agree that that it would be accurate to discribe those events as ending in 'tragedy'. 

Looks similar to PWI so far...

Ill try this game couse its supposed to be D&D, but i think it will be like all other cheap games/copies out there...

Can always hope its better though!