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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Traitor Mechanic

15 posts found
  LauraFrost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 91

 
OP  2/10/13 3:32:00 AM#1

 

Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game.

What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic?

In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor.

The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.

 

This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?

 

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

2/10/13 3:53:42 AM#2

The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end.

Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 1989

2/10/13 6:46:20 AM#3

It can work in a boardgame, because boardgames are played in an environment where all the players still want to be friends when the game ends. It's very rare that a boardgame player would insult his opponent personally, make rude gestures over the playing table, or call the losing player and idiot who can't play at all and is generally a complete failure in other areas of life as well.

In MMO there are no such restrictions, and there are players who aim to hurt other players personally. Players playing a game that has betrayals as large element would get personally attacked and hurt so much, that I think few people would enjoy playing it.

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1423

2/10/13 9:15:41 AM#4

Nopers, we don't need anything else for people to say tinfoil hat for. If there were more jokes about conspiracy then maybe.

On a serious note, I like the idea of alignment better where you would do things with other people that was a completely different line. I'm working my character toward being a scoopdeboop so I follow the scoopdeboop quest line while the piddlededees stick with their own kind doing their own things. If a chance to traitor each other in an open world setting came up, well that's called pvp, isn't it. You would have to call it that to get me closer to wanting to play it.

The age of wushu have that kidnap system though and people aren't outraged so far. The difference I suppose is that it's not done in your face if it only happens while you are offline. The same way utilities will disconnect people now without knocking on the door to avoid the confrontation and fight with people.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5917

2/10/13 9:35:41 AM#5
Originally posted by Quirhid

The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end.

Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

This summed up what I was going to say..

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5917

2/10/13 9:41:49 AM#6

Another thing I would like to add to this discussion, is that gameplay like this, similar to FFAFL PvP have a after effect ripple that most aren't prepared for who request features like this. 

 

That side effect is that people won't play PvE together with anybody they don't know within their guikd. Creates a major social issue in the MMO. People wouldn't want to be in the smaller guilds, since guilds would be the only way to get any PvE done, since you don't trust anybody.

i played Darkfall, and it was like this pretty much. PvEer stayed quiet not to notify the gankers and griefer of any PvE group action going on, so they wouldn't mess things up. It sucks.

in games like GW2 the community comes together to tackle PvE if they see it as rewarding of course. But in a game like the OP is requesting, you will get the opposite, aka a Darkfall setting all over again.

  LauraFrost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 91

 
OP  2/11/13 1:21:56 AM#7

 

Problem is, most people are in the mindset of what you've already experience and lack the imagination of how we can think outside the box. If you imagine a new game mechanic in an already existing boring game situation/environment then by all means this is not going to work.

 

Reminds me of when Gary Gygax and his friend were rejected by some publishers because they couldn't grasp the whole concept of "open ended" game. It didn't make sense "a game without an end? that will never work."

 

We need more creative minds to shake all this rust and create new game experiences. I don't blame players of being unimaginative but I blame designers of catering to the "expected" and what "should be".

 

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 626

2/11/13 1:47:13 AM#8
Originally posted by LauraFrost

 

Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game.

What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic?

In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor.

The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.

 

This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?

 

  I would have thought that would have been in Anarchy Online, never played it so I dont know but it certainly fits the theme of the Pen and Paper game.

 

BTW, I have seen groups of players in Pick Up Raids who I am sure where Role Playing Traitors and deliberately trying to wipe the raid.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1963

2/11/13 1:52:11 AM#9
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Quirhid

The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end.

Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

This summed up what I was going to say..

+1 as well. It could only work for some short break from the cooperative fun, but in the long run... Nowadays the games promote heavily the solo, every-man-for-him/herself attitude, which I find kinda sad (I always loved rpg for working together, as a party overcome anything the GM throws in our way) so I don't think it would be a good idea for an entire game.

As for a short break it could work, there's a funny little rpg called Paranoia - I think Quirhid had the same thought, based on pokerface and throaway characters :) We played it sometimes for the fun, it has everything OP wrote: the whole party is (not so) secretly against each other, but can't openly kill because of the Computer, so it's full of sneaky tactics and backstabbing... oh, and there's no OOC :) so if you 'accidentally' shot the guy (who had some infos of you being a traitor) in the back  while the party tries to defend the camp from a massive attack, you have to explain it to the others in-character - pokerface comes handy :)

While it was fun for a few hours in every couple of months, I can't see this could be played massively, and especially online.

  rounner

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 532

2/11/13 2:01:08 AM#10
Replies are extreme and dramatic. A lobby pvp game where one of each side is a turncoat could be feasible and fun.
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3712

RIP City of Heroes!

2/11/13 2:08:29 AM#11
Originally posted by rounner
Replies are extreme and dramatic. A lobby pvp game where one of each side is a turncoat could be feasible and fun.

 So friendly fire rules would be in play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

2/12/13 11:53:22 AM#12

I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression.

Think about it the following pve set up.

You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die).

The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG.

And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

  Salio69

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/06
Posts: 420

2/12/13 2:39:03 PM#13
Originally posted by LauraFrost

 

Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game.

What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic?

In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor.

The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.

 

This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?

 

I assume you have never played EvE Online.

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2300

2/13/13 11:37:43 AM#14
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression.

Think about it the following pve set up.

You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die).

The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG.

And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

I had the same thought. It would need a controlled environment. In a PvE +PvP instanced senario it could work really well. Aion had a something somewhat like this. I can't remember but it was a high level group vs group match where you could also fight over mobs and bosses for points or something. In the open world? I don't know. There would be a lot of factors that would have to be controlled just to make the traitor mechanic fair for both sides and still not negatively impact the both sides too much.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

2/13/13 12:09:32 PM#15
Originally posted by mmoguy43
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression.

Think about it the following pve set up.

You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die).

The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG.

And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

I had the same thought. It would need a controlled environment. In a PvE +PvP instanced senario it could work really well. Aion had a something somewhat like this. I can't remember but it was a high level group vs group match where you could also fight over mobs and bosses for points or something. In the open world? I don't know. There would be a lot of factors that would have to be controlled just to make the traitor mechanic fair for both sides and still not negatively impact the both sides too much.

Open world is not always conducive to a lot of gameplay mechanics .. because you lose control once the number of players, and where they can go becomes too variable.

Instances, OTOH, can be used for many types of gameplay. This is just one. I can also see:

- stealth based gameplay

- story based gameplay that allows you change the whole instances, instead of being static.

- ...