Originally posted by Elfahiar

Originally posted by rojo6934

 And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard.

Please let me correct you...People ALREADY support those practices.

And it has become a standard, more or less.

Half of these posts make no sense.

the game is F2P.  You either think the game is great and the founder stuff is a good value for you or you think it sucks/unsure and it would be better for you to wait to try it out.  I have spent $60 on other games.  I saw the livestream of this game and have no problem paying that for the extra stuff you get with it.   I wouldn't spend the $200, but that's me.  I have yet to read a valid adult argument as to why someone else shouldn't though.  A product is worth what is offered only if the buyer deems it acceptable.  The more I read some posts, the more I think these people have a communist approach to gaming.  Gaming is a business and if your're delivering a F2P game that is of AAA quality, then expect there to be things in it as an incentive to spend.

What each person chooses to buy is up to them.  As long as the game isn't nickeling and diming you, it should be fine.   

Originally posted by psiic

First off let me say I did shell out the $200 and feel positive about it, however I have a lot of disposable income and generally buy every deal that comes along good and bad. 

That being said, most of the people in my guild do not have that luxury, money is tight for most people out there and getting tighter every day. Yet most game developers continue to get more and more greedy. 

 

I mean seriously the $200 founder pack is maybe worth $75, no way its worth $200 and even worse the claim PWI makes that it is actually worth $500+

 

Oh and just so you know that statement is actionable if when the game releases, and the in game cash shop and valuations do not stand up to the value they claim, I STRONGLY urge a class action lawsuit for false advertising and deceptive business practices.

 

Game developer greed is bad enough lately without all the lies and false advertising they continue to heap on us game after game after game. 

 

Start making some examples out of some of these companies and you will start seeing a bit more honesty and accountability, in the marketing if not in the game itself.

 

Now that being said this whole pay to beta test fiasco that has become the rule not the exception is getting really out of hand. Not only is it insane but its stupid as well. 

Out of my group of friends we were able to bring in 3 people with buddy keys, 2 of those 3 bought the $60 pack within a few hours of playing the game.  We had another 20 or so guildies that wanted to check it out but could not get a key, so they went and played defiance instead and most of them ended up buying defiance when if they had been in neverwinter they might have bought that instead.

But noooooo some genius decided cock blocking potential customers a good marketing decision at a time where 4 or 5 games are competing for pre-orders and market share. Oh and God I hope the CEO or CFO at PWI reads this and realizes how much money that decision cost them because I can just about promise it was in the millions. 

So greed and stupidity... but I digress once again...

The biggest slap to the face.. it is a FREE TO PLAY

Would I pay $200 for any type of game? no. Do I think the industry has grown greedy? No, not to the extent that is presented around here. Games have been roughly the same price for a long long time, I'm 34 and I remember titles when I was a child selling for 70-80 on the SNES with the average being $50. If anything many types of games are becoming cheaper to access.

Over the last decade everything has become more expensive, yet people grow poorer and poorer. In the gaming realm, they've opted for a different approach to inflation, optional... Because of the fact that many have grown poorer. They only live if we in mass can access their products.

The cost of doing business has gone up globally. Tech salaries are also going up. This costs companies a lot. They recoup these costs through optional monetization methods, an example is focusing on those with disposable income. Another- cheap piece-meal transactions, mostly clothing or convenience items.

I view this approach as a fair one, people only pay for what they want. I'd prefer that over skyrocketing box prices/monthly fees.

My conclusion is that it's not greedy, it's intelligent.

Originally posted by psiic

Originally posted by Fendel84M
Some people say Free to Play though like its a not for profit organization. The game still has to make money, and front loading big packages like that to people who are big fans and willing to pay is a smart idea. Whether or not you feel its worth the money is your own opinion. And I just don't personally understand why it bothers people so bad if someone else wants to buy a $200 pre-launch pack.

lemme explain it this way...

 

Say an orange has a true value of  25 cents.. 100% of the people can afford that orange at its true value.

 

Now say someone buys up all those oranges and decides to resell them for say 50 cents.. now maybe 80% of the people can afford oranges.

 

Then lets say the orange farm says well hell if people are willing to pay that guy 50 cents then maybe they will buy my next batch of oranges from me for 75 cents..  now only maybe 50% of the people can afford those oranges. 

 

Sadly however it doesnt stop there because the farmer has now realized some people are willing to pay whatever he asks for his oranges so next harvest he figures hell lets try $1.50 for oranges.. at this point you have trimmed away all the normal people with normal income so maybe you only lose 10% and come down to 40% of the people.. 

Well hot damn says the farmer, I'm selling less oranges but I'm making more money.. maybe we can push this a little further next harvest.. $3 for an orange only worth 25 cents.

If those numbers work next comes $6.. so what if only 20% of the people out there can buy them you are still making more money that you were selling them to everyone at 25 cents, or even 30% of the people at $3...

 

The point isI dont care how much money you have to toss at games, sooner or later the way this is going you are going to be in the percentage that is cut out of the oranges.

We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

 A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

Originally posted by Betakodo

You could use the same argument to support pay to win.

"Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo". Haven't been following races too closely, but it says exclusive and unique abilities. I plan on playing human anyways, but that's still pretty insulting.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/news/page/1/read/26659/Neverwinter-Beta-Weekends-and-Founders-Packs-Detailed.html

It's also the whole early access thing. You know the server is ready 5 days before their open beta launch date. They simply just tacked on a 5 day delay for everyone else who didn't pay. If it's not wrong, then maybe every other f2p game maker should add a 5 day delay to their release dates and charge $200 bucks. It's not the norm, don't let it become the norm.

If you ask me, people should boycott the Neverwinter cash shop because of this bull. Just for kicks. Ok, maybe for principle. Yeah, that sounds better. I know it's a for profit business. I'm sure they already took loads out of the game and put in planned inconveniences to push people towards buying their cash shop stuff.

OMG you do realize every single MMO for the last 8+ years has offered some sort of early release incentive right?

I already paid $60 for games that lasted 6-7 hours or less.

I can pay a pack for a game I'm gonna play 200+ hours, no problem.

Each to his own, I guess...

It's definitely worth it in my opinion.

People whom are "against" the founders pack like to trivialise it and list only one or two of it's features, but in reality you are paying for:

* MENZOBERRANZAN RENEGADE and all attached features

* ARMORED SPIDER MOUNT

* PANTHER COMPANION

* GOLD MOONSTONE MASK REGALIA SET

* VIP GAME ACCESS - Priority log-in access

* FOUNDER'S ARMOR AURA

* FOUNDER'S TITLE

* SMALL BAG OF HOLDING

* DUNGEON MASTER UNLOCK

* DELZOUN TREASURE BOX

* MOONSTONE REGULAR

* ADVENTURER'S HELPER PACK

* 1 RESPEC TOKEN

* GREYCLOAK'S LEGACY

* ROBE OF USELESS ITEMS

* 750,000 ASTRAL DIAMONDS

* 3 EXTRA CHARACTER SLOTS

Now, do these features offer a value of $199.99? (also note that the apparent value of the pack is $549.) Who knows, however it is common sense to expect to pay a premium. It's really down to personal taste as to whether or not that premium makes the difference.

Some people seem to miss the fact that this is the very exclusive top-tier option and is priced as such; it is not intended for or aimed at the general consumer. The "Guardian of Neverwinter" pack fulfils that role.

Edit:

Forgot to include - 

· GUARANTEED ACCESS TO ALL THREE BETA WEEKENDS

· FIVE DAYS EARLY ACCESS

· WEEKEND BETA KEY FOR A FRIEND

Originally posted by Bladestrom

We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

 A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

 Spot on. What they are offering is incentives for people to invest early in the game. It's not just those items that you are getting, you are also getting in-game currency to spend later, along with the listed exclusive items for founder packs, which accounts for the value of the packs.

The game is 100% playable for free, yet theres all the self entitled whinging going on that people who pay get premium services. Well duh. How do you think F2P games are going to work? If there is nothing to buy, they make no money, and there is no game. People on here need to stop being so incredibly dumb.

Personally I would have prefered a B2P model so all these cheapskates who have no intention of spending any money at all can just bugger off.

Originally posted by Elfahiar

I already paid $60 for games that lasted 6-7 hours or less.

I can pay a pack for a game I'm gonna play 200+ hours, no problem.

Each to his own, I guess...

Exactly.  How come there isn't outrage from ALL the games people have pre-ordered and got to play beta?

Because you had to buy the game it's okay, but if the game is free it's not?  Wut?

i would also remind people that the beta is just a perk.  There's other stuff in it too.

It's the same greedy tactic such as how DLC's are becoming out of control. "People are paying for it, so why not".

Pixels.

Servers cost millions to run, simply dont buy it while you get that free access to those servers.  People are confusing the bad end of the DLC market where you have to buy or the gameplay is impaired with speculative DLC that is intended for those that can afford it (to support all us other players that are playing that game for free)

Originally posted by Heretique

It's the same greedy tactic such as how DLC's are becoming out of control. "People are paying for it, so why not".

 

Pixels.

You know what happens when cost of something pushes past what the market will bare?

Originally posted by azzamasin

OMG you do realize every single MMO for the last 8+ years has offered some sort of early release incentive right?

I said it to you before and I'll say it again. Double check your facts. Every single? More like barely any over the past 4 years. Maybe Guild Wars 2 was your first MMO? The game didn't charge $200 bucks to access the game 3 days early, all you had to do was pre-order the game. Anyone can shout out a random MMO name and it most likely wouldn't have a early release incentive. Add to that, that we're talking about a F2P game. How many of those had early releases if you pay? Maybe 2 at most out of a sea of F2P's?

200 bucks for founder pack is a luxury not necessity. Buying a 10 dollar watch so that you can see the time (basic fucntion) when you can not afford to buy a 10 grand watch. Do you go around on the street shouting on top of your lungs that companies which make expensive watches are just low life scums?

People with disposable income do not mind when it comes to spending on luxury. And 200 bucks for a founder pack is just that..a luxury. So many cry babies and sore thumbs here.

I swear no one does drama and judgemental attitude better than MMO gamers.

Originally posted by Heretique

It's the same greedy tactic such as DLC

How?

Most DLC these days are stuff already on disc.

Can't compare to a "free to play" where you're ONLY buying the bits you want...

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by azzamasin

OMG you do realize every single MMO for the last 8+ years has offered some sort of early release incentive right?

I said it to you before and I'll say it again. Double check your facts. Every single? More like barely any over the past 4 years. Maybe Guild Wars 2 was your first MMO? The game didn't charge $200 bucks to access the game 3 days early, all you had to do was pre-order the game. Anyone can shout out a random MMO name and it most likely wouldn't have a early release incentive. Add to that, that we're talking about a F2P game. How many of those had early releases if you pay? Maybe 2 at most out of a sea of F2P's?

It's 5 days access for $200 and you get more than beta and early access.

Originally posted by Heretique

It's the same greedy tactic such as how DLC's are becoming out of control. "People are paying for it, so why not".

 

Pixels.

 OK, feel free to develop updates for us and give them to us for free. I'm sure your time is worth nothing.