Originally posted by DamonVile

Say you're a game dev...who would you rather have beta testing your game. They guy that would never spend a dime on your game or the guy willing to spend $200 on a founders pack ?

Who's going to give better feedback on what they'd like in the game ?

very good point as many treat free closed betas as nothing more than free previews 

Good thing the Wright brothers invested in that first airplane.

Steve Jobs invested in the first computer designed for home use.

Billions were invested in going to the moon.

All ideas with no guarantee of success. Of course, a video game is no where near the  importance of the above but it is the same concept. Folks like to invest in things they want to see succeed regardless if you think it is foolish or not.

Yeah it comes to that most likely some amount of the money people pay into the packs will go to placing or developing content in the future for the game, as well as allowing them keep the game enjoyable for the players as it will stay very profitable. If people wnat to pay for the founder packs that is their choice, and the company should have it as an option for actually allowing players to both support a game or company they are enjoying. Also i would rather have te input of a player that has an invested interest in the game (bought items, packs), over someone that has no investment in the game an could care much less as they lose nothing by it gettiing worse or betters since they can move on with no losses compared to the person that invested in it. 

I would not say a game is not as big an importance as any of those listed, since it is something fr enjoyment an entertainment, and so is of huge importance to the person playing it or investing in it. If you look at history entertainment an enjoyment of activities has been very important both as a form of job employment, as well as stress release, and to as a means of keeping the masses docile (which is extremely important to governing bodies as their rule hinges on the masses being happy, and if not they might end up overthrown or worse.). So in ways you could say games are extremely important , as a method of culling, and subdueing the public into being docile an controlable via being very happy an entertained.

Don't buy them if you don't like it.

Games developers aren't charitable organizations, and they will try and make money however they see fit.  A lot of players enjoy getting into a game early or getting special pets etc., so the developers are just meeting that demand.

Did I miss the part where the Publisher forces you to buy a founder's pack to play?

There are still Press, Friend Invite, Random Invites into beta events. The game still releases and if you aren't a founder, you still get to play.

What's the difference - some people feel comfortable paying up front, or paying for beta access. No big deal. It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it - just like your money is yours, and you can choose not to buy a founder's pack if you so choose.

People are free to do whatever they want with their own money.

Whats really bothering you? That you cant play because you didnt pay them?

Are they incentivising an upfront cash boost? Yes. But really, why does it matter to you? You missed out on a beta weekend or two. It isnt the end of the world, and you can see all the details from other players now.

Its like the people that are 'investing' in Mortal Online, would I do it? No. But what right do I have to tell someone else what is a worthy use of their own money? None.

Originally posted by Ridelynn

Did I miss the part where the Publisher forces you to buy a founder's pack to play?

There are still Press, Friend Invite, Random Invites into beta events. The game still releases and if you aren't a founder, you still get to play.

What's the difference - some people feel comfortable paying up front, or paying for beta access. No big deal. It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it - just like your money is yours, and you can choose not to buy a founder's pack if you so choose.

Dude i completely agree with you. people work hard to earn there money and if the feel like paying to be a founder the who are we to tell them no..

Originally posted by rnor6084

Good thing the Wright brothers invested in that first airplane.

Steve Jobs invested in the first computer designed for home use.

Billions were invested in going to the moon.

All ideas with no guarantee of success. Of course, a video game is no where near the  importance of the above but it is the same concept. Folks like to invest in things they want to see succeed regardless if you think it is foolish or not.

 

 

You might be missing the most important part of your point.

When folks invest in something they want to see it succeed even more. Those in a position to control the outcome (devs) are the ones who need the motivating. If you pay them upfront incentive is gone. (atleast for them, the only ones with incentive left-gamers- have no control of how good the game actually ends up)

Foundations take away devs incentive and investment. They are developing on someone elses dime, not their own.

If their own success/welfare isnt on the line they will make a worse product.

That is simply human nature.

I firmly believe people should spend money on what makes them happy.

What would make me happy is sending me MONEY!!!

Originally posted by Venomizer2

Originally posted by rnor6084

Good thing the Wright brothers invested in that first airplane.

Steve Jobs invested in the first computer designed for home use.

Billions were invested in going to the moon.

All ideas with no guarantee of success. Of course, a video game is no where near the  importance of the above but it is the same concept. Folks like to invest in things they want to see succeed regardless if you think it is foolish or not.

 

 

You might be missing the most important part of your point.

 

When folks invest in something they want to see it succeed even more. Those in a position to control the outcome (devs) are the ones who need the motivating. If you pay them upfront incentive is gone. (atleast for them, the only ones with incentive left-gamers- have no control of how good the game actually ends up)

 

Foundations take away devs incentive and investment. They are developing on someone elses dime, not their own.

 

If their own success/welfare isnt on the line they will make a worse product.

 

That is simply human nature.

 Investors rarely have any control over investments. They are investing money or resources into a project which they think will give decent returns, either in profit or in a product they have an interest in.

Games are no different. If players have a vested interest in seeing a game that they like succeed, they are happy to pay these founders fees.

Originally posted by evilastro

People are free to do whatever they want with their own money.

Whats really bothering you? That you cant play because you didnt pay them?

Are they incentivising an upfront cash boost? Yes. But really, why does it matter to you? You missed out on a beta weekend or two. It isnt the end of the world, and you can see all the details from other players now.

Its like the people that are 'investing' in Mortal Online, would I do it? No. But what right do I have to tell someone else what is a worthy use of their own money? None.

You have a right to tell them how to spend their money. Its called free speech.

You have a right to criticize others for making bad decisions.

Seeing as how devs respond to community behavior, everyone has an invested interest in how others are willing to pay. If 99% of the population is willing to p2w you have a right to tell them its dumb/stupid/whatever. Not just a free speech right, but because it impacts you what they do with their money.

Its a community driven industry. What 1 person does effects us all. I get the "live and let live" philosophy when it comes to $, you should try applying it to others speech.

For one the selling of beta access has been a very long tradition. It use to be a given for buying a CE of a game. Those games were usually not F2P though. I can not see paying $200 for founders pack for a f2p game. On the other side of that if people want to pay that for a f2p game they never played it is their money and their choice.

Originally posted by rnor6084

Good thing the Wright brothers invested in that first airplane.

Steve Jobs invested in the first computer designed for home use.

Billions were invested in going to the moon.

All ideas with no guarantee of success. Of course, a video game is no where near the  importance of the above but it is the same concept. Folks like to invest in things they want to see succeed regardless if you think it is foolish or not.

 

 

Those all had a brilliant return on investment. $200 for a game that you might play for a year, which by the way is a free to play game - I don't think is a good return.

I think people are more urked about the precedent that's being set and accepted here. Paying for early access and paying ridiculous amounts to get into a free to play game.

I personally like how Cryptic is selling it. Mainly, you can buy ALL of this, valued at $549.99 or whatever, for only $199.99!

Put a few things in a pack and randomly value it at 2x+ what they're asking. Yeah. Whatever. lol

Originally posted by evilastro

People are free to do whatever they want with their own money.

Whats really bothering you? That you cant play because you didnt pay them?

Are they incentivising an upfront cash boost? Yes. But really, why does it matter to you? You missed out on a beta weekend or two. It isnt the end of the world, and you can see all the details from other players now.

Its like the people that are 'investing' in Mortal Online, would I do it? No. But what right do I have to tell someone else what is a worthy use of their own money? None.

 Most people don't care.

Investors rarely have any control over investments. They are investing money or resources into a project which they think will give decent returns, either in profit or in a product they have an interest in.

Games are no different. If players have a vested interest in seeing a game that they like succeed, they are happy to pay these founders fees.

Investors would expect details in advance and some proof that it will succeed. business plan or something.

This is not comparable to investing. Investors pull support, investors are in the loop, investors get $ reward.

Gamers paying up front is just a different animal entirely. They are not in the production pipeline in any way shape or form.

IMO they are still customers, just parting with their money in advance so they have no leverage if the product underachieves.

Originally posted by Theocritus
Agree with the OP...Never understood the Pay for beta nad early access mentality......Also there are so many free options out there now why the heck would anyone pay for beta?

why do people just assume that is the only reason why people buy these packs?

Why compalin about "other people paying" so you can have a game to play?  don't make sense.

Not to mention that many studio have funding problem.  I recall a few mmorpg being scrap in the mid of development because they can't get enough funding.