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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » After GW2 do you want the holy trio back?

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421 posts found
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/09/13 9:20:08 PM#161
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
What I dont like in GW2 is in dungeons people run from boss to boss not playing. Some run in one direction and others in another in this zurg game play style. I think this is partly because of no trinity.

 Right, cause you know...we didnt get a Leroy meme or anything out of a trinity MMO...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 651

2/09/13 9:29:40 PM#162
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
What I dont like in GW2 is in dungeons people run from boss to boss not playing. Some run in one direction and others in another in this zurg game play style. I think this is partly because of no trinity.

 Right, cause you know...we didnt get a Leroy meme or anything out of a trinity MMO...

Despite what you may have seen heard or read, the original "Leroy Jenkins" was a tank and that first time ..... well the encounter was cleared.

  Aodhan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/11
Posts: 37

2/09/13 9:32:39 PM#163
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Aodhan

For all you ppl that want the heal/tank class back including myself, Stop supporting the games that are released without.

Simple money speaks.

look at the numbers in this poll a pretty good example that we are not in the minority as some would like you to beleave.

Sticking with Vanguard till something better comes along.

if my time at mmorpg.com has taught me anything the "majority" here is generally never what the general masses wants or feels in terms of pretty much anything

 I totally agree  look at GW2 a perfect example of it was the coming till it actually came :).

  drivendawn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 1025

2/09/13 9:54:57 PM#164
I played GW2 and without the trinity its a mindless zerg fest in open world and dungens have an every man for them selves feeling to them with a little crowd control. The trinity gives more of a group dynamic in my opinion. Now that being said some other company may get the no trinity battle system correct.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/09/13 9:58:47 PM#165
Originally posted by drivendawn
I played GW2 and without the trinity its a mindless zerg fest in open world and dungens have an every man for them selves feeling to them with a little crowd control. The trinity gives more of a group dynamic in my opinion. Now that being said some other company may get the no trinity battle system correct.

ill agree it does feel like a zergfest till you understand the combat mechanics.. at launch the game was so packed all people did was follow the zerg from place to place and never needed to realy learn the game because so many people were around oversaturating every event... but now that you have to really work with others and learn how combat works you can see how the system really shines.. just 5 min ago me and another mesmer took out a champion just the two of us.. took over 20 min was an epic battle

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2555

2/09/13 10:03:02 PM#166
Not all of us are lucky enough to play with guilds or with people who play well and understand the system of GW 2 so you get really bad pugs. I think it is much more worse when group roles are fudged up .At  least with a trinity a pug at least knows what role they are to play and not have to muddle through hoping others understood the way to play like you do in GW 2. Like blind leading the blind and it is really not that much fun to be honest.  Also when you are in those random DEs no one even knows who you are and what you contributed. I used to enjoy being told how well I played now no one even sees it and I feel strangely bereft. Not saying that trinity is the only way to feel valued but yes roles I think must exist.

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  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/09/13 10:06:22 PM#167
Originally posted by cheyane
Not all of us are lucky enough to play with guilds or with people who play well and understand the system of GW 2 so you get really bad pugs. I think it is much more worse when group roles are fudged up .At  least with a trinity a pug at least knows what role they are to play and not have to muddle through hoping others understood the way to play like you do in GW 2. Like blind leading the blind and it is really not that much fun to be honest.  Also when you are in those random DEs no one even knows who you are and what you contributed. I used to enjoy being told how well I played now no one even sees it and I feel strangely bereft. Not saying that trinity is the only way to feel valued but yes roles I think must exist.

funny cause the encounter i mentioned above we both stopped afterwords and talked about how crazy the battle was and talked about each others builds and playstyles.. but i will agree with trinity PUGs are WAY easier

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Broomy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 495

2/09/13 10:07:38 PM#168
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

Current Games: WOW (what else?)

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/09/13 10:12:20 PM#169
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

lol of course they can.. you can search youtube and watch them clear every single dungeon the game has without a single wipe.. i'd say good players don't just quit because something is new and gives them a bit of a challenge

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  saurus123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 558

2/09/13 10:17:24 PM#170
Originally posted by TemperHoof
I really enjoy playing healers and distance mages. That's why I'm looking forward to Final Fantasy XIV. Good bye Guild Wars 2, turns out I did like the trinity afterall.

till you hit the wall called "LFG" few hours a day :)

  User Deleted
2/09/13 10:25:50 PM#171
Didn't buy GW2, but I don't like the trinity as it's been in recent games(tank n spank). I prefered the expanded trinity where crowd control/buffs&debuffs/pulling/offtanking were viable and desired roles in a party.
  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

2/09/13 10:27:57 PM#172
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

Er.. actually, good players ARE the ones that excel in those situations.  There is an aggro system, you just don't always understand it on the first try.  God forbid you have to learn how certain types of enemies prioritize their targets.  Let's make it simple and give all the aggro to one person in the group.  After all, it's not like that ever got old.

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 651

2/09/13 10:30:19 PM#173
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

lol of course they can.. you can search youtube and watch them clear every single dungeon the game has without a single wipe.. i'd say good players don't just quit because something is new and gives them a bit of a challenge

Hmm, the problem with GW2 is that its combat is so different it must be learnt pretty much from scratch. 

Now this is fine if you have an expectation of playing this game for a long time or expect other games (that you will play)  to be launched with nearly identical combat systems.  If you do not have this expectation, and you do not see some other redeeming feature of the game, it is probably more effort than it is worth.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/09/13 10:32:54 PM#174
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

lol of course they can.. you can search youtube and watch them clear every single dungeon the game has without a single wipe.. i'd say good players don't just quit because something is new and gives them a bit of a challenge

Hmm, the problem with GW2 is that its combat is so different it must be learnt pretty much from scratch. 

Now this is fine if you have an expectation of playing this game for a long time or expect other games (that you will play)  to be launched with nearly identical combat systems.  If you do not have this expectation, and you do not see some other redeeming feature of the game, it is probably more effort than it is worth.

it's differen't all right but honestly isn't "that" hard to learn.. you just need to understand how to play a mixture of dps, control, and support in all honesty it doesnt take much time at all.. the biggest issue people have is trying to turn it into just another holy trinity game and get angry when that doesnt' work out for them

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Geminiv

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 15

2/09/13 10:35:54 PM#175

Hybrid felt so much better in my opinion, it just felt less restricted an I’m really looking forward to ESO (Elder Scrolls Online) where they're taking it a step further. Although i do see the down sides having to multi task healing an tanking (dodging) can seem harder but i just found it all the more rewarding an it felt like i was playing the game for once, but each to their own.

  Dartmed

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 36

Do or get Done

2/10/13 2:19:40 AM#176

 


And your last comment is a joke about UO and EVE.. UO and EVE really have no group content, and certainly no ´boss´ fights. But again, that really is what it comes down to. If you want vibrant and interesting boss fights, you need the trinity. If all you want is diablo-style dungeons, you don´t need it. Two completely different gamestyles, take what you like and play it, one is not right or wrong. I personally prefer having the memorable, and very different boss fights.


EVE has no group content?? Well I guess you can solo an incursion. EVE has many roles it simply lets players decide what they want to play at any given time . Roles don’t have to be set , you can be a tackler, a spotter, a healer and many more. Here is a nice group video with eve “healing”.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20F3n6wHsbA  

http://mmocultgr.blogspot.com

  User Deleted
2/10/13 2:59:27 AM#177
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

Er.. actually, good players ARE the ones that excel in those situations.  There is an aggro system, you just don't always understand it on the first try.  God forbid you have to learn how certain types of enemies prioritize their targets.  Let's make it simple and give all the aggro to one person in the group.  After all, it's not like that ever got old.

Oh good. You seem to know it all. Can you explain how in the hell the following happens and what we can do about it? Thanks.

 

Originally posted by vindir
Originally posted by SuperNick
  1. ()

() 

You know the champ at the end of that chain - he had a hate on for me one time. I played my ranger at the time. He kept coming at me  - and ONLY freakin me. I thought, "c'mon someone pull him off me!'" but alas none could. He beat me into the ground. Thats ok, I rezzed in the camp next to the champ and thought he'd fix on someone else. I got back into the fight and the freakin thing made a bee line for me. WTH? OK, someone heal me - nope no healers! Someone pull aggro - nope not happening either. I died (again) it stopped. I got rezed - it freaking came right for me again. Had to be a cruel joke. So I stopped dps'ing and kitted around to see if it was truly just me it wanted - yep. It followed me in circles. Everyone around me was yelling to stop kiting. So I stood there, died, got rezed, died, rezed, died, and so on until it was finsihed. At least everyone got their daily rez completed.

()

Post #65.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6241

2/10/13 3:02:15 AM#178
Originally posted by Latronus
I've never liked the trinity.  It's completely unrealistic, yeah I know, realism in a fantasy game???  Combat is chaotic.  Having a person basically hurling insults while everyone else beats the hell outta a mob is unimaginative mechanics.  The trinity forces an order where none should exist.  I think GW2s approach is a step in the right direction.  The combat is somewhat chaotic like it should be and if the players are selfish and don't work together then failure is an option just as in real combat.  People are resistant to change and since this is a change, many won't like it and can't accept that they have to do something besides, throw insults, heal or DPS to the max.  /shrug. 

I guess you never played PvP before in a MMO.

the two groups of players that get the most enemy attention is the big Melee DPS that's smacking the shit out of you in your face, running circles around you making it annoying to fight.

and the healers keeping them alive.

did you ever play Vanilla Rift PvP?

once I understood that the trinity also applies in PvP, I built team Stratagy around it. What I define as the tank is mostly the Melee DPS fighters in the group, who can handle a bit of pressure and can do nice threating attacks. Like a Melee Warrior, who most people were afraid of in vanilla Rift. Also Melee clerics, because being a cleric put the automatic fear that they could be a healer of some kind and they smacking you in Melee at the same time, and harder to kill, just like a tank.

 

the enemy will focus fire on them if your tanks know how to play their role.

 

and just like in the PvE form of the trinity, the DPS (or as I define DPS here, is anybody that damage from ranged combat) always focus fire the Tank's target, because if you fire on others you will draw aggro away from the tank. Your added damage on the tank's target makes the tank's attacks seem even more of a major threat, making the enemy want to focus on the tank even more.

 

healers do their role of keeping the tank healthy and keeping them un-CCed as possible so they can do their role. Hybrids, aka support can help out here by providing constant buffs to power the tank in anyway you can.

 

when you do stuff like this your faction dominates in PvP. The Trinity is real. That Aggro charts is just a simulation of what goes on. Real people faces threats and hate, which a computer does not, which is why they use mechanics of hate chart to simulate that emotion and fear.

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

2/10/13 3:08:07 AM#179

Just putting in my opinion, I prefer the non-trinity system.  I feel it is less restrictive, more open for a variety of tactics and play then set roles.  I did like how GW2 did this.  Many other problems in the game I just dont feel this was one of them.

I dont remember ever enjoying 'oh we cant run the dungeon we have to wait for a healer or a tank' or when one sucks the group wipes etc.  Or even if your duoing you have to pick duo's that match well.

One way I would like to see it improved from the GW2 system is to add a huge more variety of builds per profession/class.  Currently their system is quite lack luster in this aspect and often only one or two variations are viable.

  Dartmed

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 36

Do or get Done

2/10/13 3:15:42 AM#180
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Broomy
Loved GW2 until I entered the clusterf--k known as their dungeon instances.  Mob aggro everywhere, people dying and "running back", just a hotmess.  "Good players" cant excel in that kind of chaos.  I went running right back to the Trinity based MMOs.  Someone, someday will build a better non-trinity mechanic and until that day I'll stay with the  trinity.

Er.. actually, good players ARE the ones that excel in those situations.  There is an aggro system, you just don't always understand it on the first try.  God forbid you have to learn how certain types of enemies prioritize their targets.  Let's make it simple and give all the aggro to one person in the group.  After all, it's not like that ever got old.

Oh good. You seem to know it all. Can you explain how in the hell the following happens and what we can do about it? Thanks.

 

Yes please do tell how the aggro system works , because it seems that ANET is keeping it a secret ...... 

http://mmocultgr.blogspot.com

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