warley, i think you are living in some illusion. since wow came out, the MMORPG genre significantly changed. it is now full of people for whom the graphics and animations ARE the dealbreaker. Just take a look at forums of games like TSW, LOTRO, Vanguard (not to mention any indie game) - you will find TONS of threads and post "geez, this game looks awful/had terrible animations, i can't play that".

I still laugh really hard when I remember situation around Xsyon at the beginning. Xsyon is an indie sandbox game targeting the crowd who call themselves "hardcore MMORPG players", players who consider today's games shallow and too casual. Guess what happened when first (alpha/beta) gameplay screenshots and videos came out. Those "hardcore" players started to cry that the game is unplayably ugly and animations are terrible.

edit: not to mention the fact that imo most of the players who play mmorpgs but for whom graphics and animations are deal breaker don't visit mmorpg forums.

Originally posted by Scot

I am going to want to hear what you have to say more than a guy who has worked on one MMO which launched last year.

Depends if you're hiring them or not, I suppose. Considered as creative talent: I would tend to favor the one who's not quite so set on his longterm narrow-set-path ideas.

And people do tend to do their most creative work while young.

HR people hate old guys. :shrug:

i think the OP is half right.

i want a good gameplay and good graphics. graphics like black desert if possible. 

for me the problems in the last releases were, that the games didnt feel massive and not multiplayer and not rpg. more like solo games with a chat room. but thats not only the fault of the games but also the gamers. 

when i started with mmorpgs (ao) people wanted to play because of the other people, hell, thats the purpose after all. now, people play just for competition and "endgame". the more they can solo the faster they can reach the holy endgame.

of course, games are supporting this play style. AO for example did not. grouping was supported and not punished.

my perfect mmorpg with current technic would be black desert graphics, swg crafting/gathering, combined with an open and seamless not instanced ffa pvp world.

i guess i am not alone with that wish and hope there will be a game in the next years.

Originally posted by Kyleran
I dunno, it seems overly simplistic to point at graphics and conclude that if only developers didn't spend so much time on them we would see "better" MMOs. We see it all the time on these forums, if only they had housing, better communities, forced grouping, larger land masses, better AIs, action oriented combat etc all would be well. I think really epic MMOS are a rare, "perfect storm" of features and ideas that come along very infrequently and all the rest end up add being pretty much your average, fun to play for a sort while game. Of course your mileage will vary based on your personal preferences.

They also have to come at the right time.

Originally posted by Scot

Well dammit I am an expert, I have not played games all these years just to be a gamer! :)

I do think if you have been in the gaming scene longer that gives more weight to what you have to say. It may also make you less represenative of what younger players think. This is the same standard as in the gaming industry, if you worked on Ultima Online and are now working on a new MMO I am going to want to hear what you have to say more than a guy who has worked on one MMO which launched last year.

The guy who released a game last year is more likely to be more in touch with the current market than the guy who released over a decade ago. Garriott certainly is an irrelevant figure these days.

These games do not exist in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Kyleran
I dunno, it seems overly simplistic to point at graphics and conclude that if only developers didn't spend so much time on them we would see "better" MMOs.

Reductio ad absurdum:

If only developers didn't spend so much time on ANY graphics, we'd see "better" MMOs.

Well, no, in fact we wouldn't see any mmos.

Back to MUDtech. (Some of us might not consider that so bad, given the trail MMOs are on...but for the majority of gamers, I think that result might have a few drawbacks. "What's your typing speed?")

Problem with current MMOs have nothing to do with graphics.

Originally posted by Uldah

Problem with current MMOs have nothing to do with graphics.

Problem with current MMOs is every individual player sees a different problem(s).

But maybe that's just a problem with the forums. Or the problem with simplistic one-sentence statements?

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Uldah

Problem with current MMOs have nothing to do with graphics.

Problem with current MMOs is every individual player sees a different problem(s).

But maybe that's just a problem with the forums. Or the problem with simplistic one-sentence statements?

Exactly.but ill dig.

 main problem is really the fact everyone likes to play diferent and todays standar is cater to all .

Is why i liked niche games, you know , the type that stick to one side of the player base.

it is or it isnt for you and the rest enjoyed it .

casual or hard core, grouping or solo, pve or pvp , i could go on.

but when you try to mix all this all you get is one big pile of garbage who does not cater to anyone , and is why in my opinion today market is flawed , apart from perhaps a couple of titles.

also, lets not mistake graphics with artstyle, 

Originally posted by Uldah

also, lets not mistake graphics with artstyle, 

 

Kay, good, didn't?

I sense you want to argue with someone, don't think it's me though.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Uldah

also, lets not mistake graphics with artstyle, 

 

Kay, good, didn't?

I sense you want to argue with someone, don't think it's me though.

not really , im just bored and half asleep ,

I suspect this is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this). Graphics have improved, that much is obvious, but when combined with the subjective notion that "todays MMOs are rubbish" some might make the connection.

Similarly how some people think that joining EU was the cause of the decline in their economy or how Obama is to blame for this and that.

Originally posted by mindw0rk
 Skyrim the best game of all time 

you may want to rephrase that.