The prob is that in todays society it is now wrong to teach a child that they can fail even if the child has faild big. So the child grows up thinking that they win all the time and they can never fail.

Now what indeed. This qustion will never be answered anytime soon.

Originally posted by Mardukk
They cant really be considering a 50 percent buff after a few wipes....My old WoW guild has to be really pissed lol.

There are all kinds of things wrong with this idea. I cant say im suprised considering the direction WoW has been going after tbc.

So people that don't care for this "everyone gets a trophy" bs have the craptastic ffa pvp games and wizardry....awesome.

To be honest, ever since companies have been making death more and more trivial in MMORPGs, this is just the next step in the evolution. I rue for the days where character death meant a set back and a learning experience.

I am back to single player games like BG and such where if your main character dies, it is game over and if your companions die and you happen to not be able to rez them, it is a trip back to the temple. So much fun !

Originally posted by Foncl

What I don't understand is how people can level up a character to max level and do the normal dungeons without learning the basics of how to play their class. Actually I can sort of understand it now, seeing how childishly simple the dungeons in the panda expansion are.

Dungeoning in WoW is so unfun now. In the old dungeons, all of the challenge and thought needed to beat them was removed. Gone is the necessity to pull properly, wait for patrols to go away, cc'ing healer mobs, etc. It is just pull everything and AoE. Tanks do so much dps now they never have to worry about losing aggro and so many tank classes have great AoE aggro so you just spam that button and you never have to worry. The newer dungeons are not any better, even the heroics. The only difference is a couple more fancy manoeuvres on the heroic bosses and the stiffer gear requirement to get in.

Raidfinder is already extremely simple, all it takes is that everyone knows the basics of their class to complete it even before this change. The difficulty gap between raid finder raiding and "real raiding" will only increase, so it won't be a good stepping stone for the real thing anymore if you make it too simple.

The only thing you need to know to play your class are the basics and basically 90% of the time it is figuring out how to do more dps. Everything is handed to you in this game.

 

Isn't the leveling up and dungeons enough of a learning process to teach players the basics? Should endgame also be about teaching players the basics of how to play their class?

It is also about learning how to cooperate in groups, and that is gone too.

 

When will the casuals be satisfied? When the whole game is lowered to their level and hardcore players have nothing left to do?

 

Whining from casuals ruined what I liked best in WoW, challenging heroic mode 5-man dungeons. By the looks of it raiding is heading in the same direction, they won't stop until there is no challenge left. Soon noone will fail in Wow, everyone is a winner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am one semi-casual player that did not whine about raiding.

I always feel that there should be content for everyone but making all content accessible to everyone when some people can't spend more than an hour a night (if that) playing is a pity because it does not cater to everyone, just the casuals.

Even so, if you look at group content in general, I think it is so much fun when it is challenging and people have to work together and know their classes. I am perfectly happy doing really difficult group content that requires skillful play, even if that means I never get to the point of raiding. Small group play is really fun.

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? lol I love it when I can quote scripture 

:p
 

Originally posted by Amsai

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? lol I love it when I can quote scripture 

:p
 

LOL nice one Icewhite.

I guess Ill be foolish and see you all in hell.

While I install 3rd party programs and play games that natively play themselves for me.

Now if only I could have someone feed me, wipe my ass, and decide whats best for me....... oh wait....... forgot I have the U.S. government for that ^.~

I just died on Path of Exile Hardcore and then then saw this thread. 

*weeps quietly inside*

Originally posted by sacredfool

I just died on Path of Exile Hardcore and then then saw this thread. 

 

*weeps quietly inside*

Well, did you learn anything or was your life a waste? :p

I just don't have the right amount of obsessive-compulsive for WoW style raiding.  Every video I have watched of it looked like folks who'd memorized 'Simon Says' routines.  There was this one where the BIgBoss was resolutely chasing this one guy (probably a tank) back and forth across the room while dozens of people stood around firing off scads of damagy looking attacks.  Looked boring as hell, and you do it for hours??

I can certainly understand why they might want to make it more accessible.  Personally, I would prefer it to be more fun.   But that's why I don't play it.  Just not cut out for the geargrind hardcore raiding ethos.  

On the other hand it does save Blizzard from making new content.

Here's my guess at the reasoning behind this "feature": Q4 earning statement for Activision/Blizzard went out this past week and it was reported that World of Warcraft lost a bunch more subscribers. This was for the quarter that Mists of Panda-town was released, so I'm guessing the management from above told the developers to do whatever was necessary to retain subscribers.

Originally posted by Kyleran
So, this only applies to raids put together via the raidfimder tool? I can see it now, people telling their guild raid leader they aren't coming to tonights raid because it well easierand faster to complete it with a PUG group than to struggle through it with the guild. I hope the decide to Nerf the rewards or something or I can actually see this scenario happening.

Nerf the rewards? It's already nerfed, compared to normal/hc (which raiding guilds do), and always was.

Clueless...

Originally posted by Arglebargle

I just don't have the right amount of obsessive-compulsive for WoW style raiding.  Every video I have watched of it looked like folks who'd memorized 'Simon Says' routines.  There was this one where the BIgBoss was resolutely chasing this one guy (probably a tank) back and forth across the room while dozens of people stood around firing off scads of damagy looking attacks.  Looked boring as hell, and you do it for hours??

 

I can certainly understand why they might want to make it more accessible.  Personally, I would prefer it to be more fun.   But that's why I don't play it.  Just not cut out for the geargrind hardcore raiding ethos.  

On the other hand it does save Blizzard from making new content.

Hours and hours and hours <images of WAY too many times through molten core flash back...> <face palm>  

But I still have the night slayer set for my level 90 rogue (transmorph).  Its the only tier set I ever focused on. I pretty much burned out of raiding after that. I'm just not a raider type.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Nightslayer_Armor

But I have some great screen shots from that time.  Almost all of the original founders of the guild (Aces of Azeroth/silvermoon) have left, or moved to another guild. Its too bad, as it was one of the first guilds on the server.  I have some great memories of the dungeon runs and guild raids from that time, though.  I've not had that much fun from another game, so far.

Originally posted by Ozmodan
So wrong, just outright wrong.  Takes all challenge out of the game.  Horrid idea Blizzard and another reason I will never play your game again.

Challenge? This is for the Raid Finder, whch is the easiest form of raiding in WoW - the targets are the PUGs. If you want challenge, you will raid at normal or heroic difficulty.

Originally posted by Kyleran
So, this only applies to raids put together via the raidfimder tool? I can see it now, people telling their guild raid leader they aren't coming to tonights raid because it well easierand faster to complete it with a PUG group than to struggle through it with the guild. I hope the decide to Nerf the rewards or something or I can actually see this scenario happening.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Zorgo

The new philosophy seems to be, "You know you won't fail, so challenge yourself to go faster".

But why would we want "fast"? It's just taking the heroic gogogogogo and pushing it up a level. :shake head:

Strikes me that "get the damn raid over and get my ass out of this chair after six hours" is enough motivation for that.

 

I have no idea.

Originally posted by WellzyC

 

Raid Finder... ?

Christ almighty..

Do we even want to PLAY mmos anymore? or are we all so lazy and disconnected that we just want this game to just happen on our screen.

MMOS in 10 years =  Quest-doer, Auto crafter, insta port to any blade of grass, auto max char.

Why do things, when the game will do things for me..

Sigh

This man speaks the TRUTH.