Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

I become a DEV because I loved games so much, but honestly I really see the DEVS side more and more...

Normal. Normal to grow much more skeptical of "Banned For No Reason!" posts, too.

Turns out that working for EvilCo doesn't make you evil. Who'd a thunk it?

eh?? lol

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by juggernautJesus

 

Every single thing you said in this post ALL assumes that I am bashing the publishers for using this system. Also, you are assuming that I am bashing the developers and journalists.  Read my post again, and rethink your response.  I do not blame anybody, and already understand everything you said in this response. Of course they all do what they must to survive. They are required to play the system. I understand that this system is almost essential to the survival of "AAA" titles.  But as Icewhite said, and it's a good point, many people are happy with more creative and modest titles that don't require an enormous company's wealth.

Please be careful before you come back with a heated response. I am not blaming anybody for the system. Perhaps it was my "I don't like these games anymore" attitude that brought you to thinking I'm blaming somebody.

So thank you for the information, as it's valuable for people to understand that also. But calm down, take a breather, and try to be a little more respectable before going on a tangent.  Thanks.

To OP, you post comes off as blaming DEVS, etc,  because being a DEV I work in the field, We do NOT have much or any say these are facts!!!

Okay, if it comes off as blaming developers of the game, then I'm sorry, that was not the point I was trying to make.  In fact, please direct your attention to this statement I made in the beginning of the post to confirm that that was not my intention: "Publishers control game development now, not the developers."  Even then, I'm not trying to blame the publishers.

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by botrytis

JJ,

You are missing BS's point. AAA cost money - loads of money. If you think all those kickstart games will be made and published just with those funds, you are kidding yourself - they are used to show a possible model and then the REAL MONEY gets courted. First and foremost, most game developers are in themselves avid gamers or they wouldn't be in this racket. Second, the companies have to make money on their investments, example is the movie 'Ishtar'. Ever see it? At the time it was one of the highest cost to produce movies and was the biggest flop ever - I mean it had Dustin Hoffman and Warren Beatty. A second wasn't produced and I think the original print was burned (I JEST HERE but it was that bad).

 

This is one of the issues here. Companies want to continue to make games, then they need to make money. The investment pool is not a bottomless pit (unless you think you are making Duke Nukem Forever that is - what a flop that game was). You have to show ROI or you don't get more money for the next game.

 

The attitude you are showing is not one of reality but of ENTITLEMENT. Games like anything else are big business. Do I hope for a small upstart to come through and show all the big guys, SURE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT. The reality is, not a fat chance right now, with economies around the world so on the verge of collapse. If it was the 1990's boom - I think we would see one or two but not now.

Ummm, your wrong my friend, games used to cost a ton,  You know why?? Over head costs etc where a ton, license costs for each program x what ever your team size is, well guess what time has changed, it does not cost as much, Kickstarter is enough, also you can make games today because people are not just learning say 3s modeling, or texturing, they are learning all aspects.

Schools are changing, they not only teach you Game Production, but the buisness aspects , marketing etc which are important, so to this poster , your wrong... I know because I work in the field, and nearly have my master, I work with this stuff 16 hrs a day.. So, your 100% incorrect.

This is true in some regards. You are right, people in the field are learning all aspects of game development,  and in some cases, engines can be so robust that you can have little programming knowledge, or outsource bits and pieces for little cost,  but in most of those cases  you aren't working with large scale, heavily modified, multiuser designs.

Costs have decreased quite a bit in terms of costs associated with visual design and programming,  and when it comes to the cost of huge AAA MMOs, you are paying for a lot of excess in regards to each and every piece of development.

Someone with complete knowledge can create a game on their own for generally no costs associated with utilizing some low or no cost engines and doing the design and programming themselves,  but again, you aren't seeing this on a large scale basis with something like a full featured  MMO just yet.   

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Someone with complete knowledge can create a game on their own for generally no costs associated with utilizing some low or no cost engines and doing the design and programming themselves,  but again, you aren't seeing this on a large scale basis with something like a full featured  MMO just yet.   

I realistically don't think you ever will.

MMOs are just too big of a project.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Someone with complete knowledge can create a game on their own for generally no costs associated with utilizing some low or no cost engines and doing the design and programming themselves,  but again, you aren't seeing this on a large scale basis with something like a full featured  MMO just yet.   

I realistically don't think you ever will.

MMOs are just too big of a project.

I guess this would depend on how we are going to categorize "MMO" nowadays.  Having many multiples of users could be possible with certain engines and designs.