Originally posted by GwapoJosh

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Deviron

Originally posted by killahh
 Get a better education and a better job.

You need a better education.  If you had one you would know that statement is full of so much ignorance.

Some people cannot afford such luxuries. Kids, current status in life beyond work, and many more reasons can make it hard to spend 60$ on something they are not quite sure about.

To me its a money grab, but that is how the world works.

It's free to play.  How much of a money grab is that?

I don't get your point about people who can't afford luxuries and how unfair that is.  What's your point?

The point is that it's f2p and people are paying $200 for it and you don't even get anything in the mail..  It's the biggest mmo money grab I have ever seen.

It's the same thing as paying for a year long subscription, or even a CE from the newest MMO + six months subscription.

If you read the package description, it comes with a ton of in game store currency - which means you'll be able to get all the unlocks you want when they added more classes, adventures, areas - and all the cosmetics you want.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Akumawraith

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by MMOGamer71
I agree with the OP - $200 is comical.

Yep.  This is unfortunate news.

you dont need to pay anything to play so i dont see why your whining.

I don't see why having a position that $200 for a top end F2P game pack is too much is whining.  Then again it's easier to say that than address the "issue."

 

Edit:

Also this top end "Founders Pack" costs more than the Collectors Editions of any WoW expansion and more than SWTOR too. 

 Maybe because the games F2P and and download it cost nothing actually. Maybe becasue there are $20 and $60 packs people could also buy if they want the incentives. People that whine that they can't have the $200 pack for $20 are just that entitled winners that want it all for little to nothing. They want the game to have big budget standards but they sure as hell don't want to pay even remotely close to what most subscription or even B2P games cost.

 Using your WoW example is good one, pay what $50 for the wow expansion which i assume will get you the base wow game as well. Then pay $15 a month for a year = $180 plus the $50 expansion pack cost = WoW $230 and thats if you don't buy some wow ingame cash shop mount etc..

   So yeah to play WoW for a year you HAVE to pay $230 (roughly). To Play Neverwinter you HAVE to pay $0. If you want the most expensive founders pack, you know becaause getting the $20 or $60 one isn't good enough. Then yes you'll still pay less then a year of WoW and have a in game mount, companion, special race and a ton of in game money to buy cash shop items with.

  Really this thread just shows that people will bitch, whine, and complain no matter what you do. If they did make the top level founders pack $20 people would still complain saying it cost more then Torchlight 2 and that someone can have something the F2P players don't, or complain saying its so cheap becasue the developers believe the games worthless.

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's for free of hours and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

Sadly it's something that's ridiculously common nowadays, everything has to be free - and heaven forbid that someone buys something from a store, shame on you for buying something that should've been free - and even moreso shame on the devs for selling something!  :P

Maybe they should try living off donations? But from someone else, right? Because then the arguement of these people would be "LOL, I'm not gonna give them money so that they can make games all day! Get a job you bums!"

Conclusion; the human race is doomed! ;)

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's of hours for free and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

59 bucks is norm for video games that are:

A)A game that is know for its quality and for the quality of its gameplay like skyrim

B)A very hyped product like call of duty

This Neverwinter mmo does not fit in any of those categories, heck not even GW2 or SW:TOR standard packs were priced 60 bucks

Originally posted by dinams

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's of hours for free and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

59 bucks is norm for video games that are:

A)A game that is know for its quality and for the quality of its gameplay like skyrim

B)A very hyped product like call of duty

 

This Neverwinter mmo does not fit in any of those categories, heck not even GW2 or SW:TOR standard packs were priced 60 bucks

It’s still ftp and paid packages are an option so what’s your point? Those games you mentioned a decent number of people like and are currently playing. To them it’s worth it. Quality seems to be maybe what your opinion might be, what people like when it comes to gaming is a matter of preference.  

Hype is what you make of it, it’s marketing and if it works on you them it works for gaming company. Hype, personally I like it, it gets me excited for a new title. Whether I take the plunge it’s my dollar and my consequences and I don’t beat the company up for selling me.

Do your research and then own up if you made a mistake man.

Originally posted by mikuniman

Originally posted by dinams

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's of hours for free and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

59 bucks is norm for video games that are:

A)A game that is know for its quality and for the quality of its gameplay like skyrim

B)A very hyped product like call of duty

 

This Neverwinter mmo does not fit in any of those categories, heck not even GW2 or SW:TOR standard packs were priced 60 bucks

It’s still ftp and paid packages are an option so what’s your point? Those games you mentioned a decent number of people like and are currently playing. To them it’s worth it. Quality seems to be maybe what your opinion might be, what people like when it comes to gaming is a matter of preference.  

Hype is what you make of it, it’s marketing and if it works on you them it works for gaming company. Hype, personally I like it, it gets me excited for a new title. Whether I take the plunge it’s my dollar and my consequences and I don’t beat the company up for selling me.

Do your research and then own up if you made a mistake man.

In your act of zealotry you just missed my point completely

I forgive you tho, you are on the little(very tiny) bandwagon that this game has

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

What is this illusion that gamers are rich?

 

It would have been better if they sold their VIP Founder Pack for, at most, $40.00.  Then there would have been a lot of peeps riding around on spiders and no one jealous.  Selling it a $200 is to much and stupid.  Now only a few peeps will pay $199.99 and PWE will get less money for their greed.  Guardian Pack should of been $20 and Starter Kit is garbage.

 

I would not go thru the torment of a beta if someone paid me; any beta.  They should have sold that separately for the masochists at any price from $600 to $60.  Let the silly rich people think they're getting a deal with beta access.  

yea right, just let em pay 200$ and dont give em shit for their money, sounds like a valid plan to me.

totaly.

or wait. not it does not.

20$ for you is too much?????  pathetic

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

What is this illusion that gamers are rich?

 

It would have been better if they sold their VIP Founder Pack for, at most, $40.00.  Then there would have been a lot of peeps riding around on spiders and no one jealous.  Selling it a $200 is to much and stupid.  Now only a few peeps will pay $199.99 and PWE will get less money for their greed.  Guardian Pack should of been $20 and Starter Kit is garbage.

 

I would not go thru the torment of a beta if someone paid me; any beta.  They should have sold that separately for the masochists at any price from $600 to $60.  Let the silly rich people think they're getting a deal with beta access.  

What illusion? There's more free to play games now than there ever were. If gamers were rich and were willing to pay higher prices, then all games would be more expensive and there would be no reason for any game to be free to play (which this game is btw). 

They selected those prices because their market research shows that people will be willing to pay them. This is an entertainment business afterall, and entertainment, especially video games, are a luxury not a necessity. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable for them to set whatever price they want and if it is not to your liking then you can simply avoid it and pursue another venue from which to get your entertainment. 

If you don't feel comfortable with those prices, even if you could afford them, then it is probably best to just avoid the game altogether. This way you save yourself time, money and frustration. If enough people do this then the company will know something was wrong with their business.

Originally posted by dinams

Originally posted by mikuniman

Originally posted by dinams

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's of hours for free and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

59 bucks is norm for video games that are:

A)A game that is know for its quality and for the quality of its gameplay like skyrim

B)A very hyped product like call of duty

 

This Neverwinter mmo does not fit in any of those categories, heck not even GW2 or SW:TOR standard packs were priced 60 bucks

It’s still ftp and paid packages are an option so what’s your point? Those games you mentioned a decent number of people like and are currently playing. To them it’s worth it. Quality seems to be maybe what your opinion might be, what people like when it comes to gaming is a matter of preference.  

Hype is what you make of it, it’s marketing and if it works on you them it works for gaming company. Hype, personally I like it, it gets me excited for a new title. Whether I take the plunge it’s my dollar and my consequences and I don’t beat the company up for selling me.

Do your research and then own up if you made a mistake man.

In your act of zealotry you just missed my point completely

I forgive you tho, you are on the little(very tiny) bandwagon that this game has

You're probably right I guess I don't get you, You have to admit it seems you have some real hate for this title going on.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Akumawraith

as to the issue the 200 dollar package isnt  a game pack its a founder pack. which gives access to beta and gives players the abilty to get closer to the Drizzt Do'Urden Charater lore.  Its completely optional, the game is free to play and download. Theres no requirement to pay out the 20, 60 or 200 dollars for founder packs. they are completely optional. I dnt see the issue unless you are one of the gimme generation in which case id call it whining.

So they develop "Founders Packs" that noone "has" to buy and advertise it like crazy including on the Champions Online and Star Trek Online logon screens in hopes of noone buying it.

Or

They overprice them to the point of them being more expensive than any WoW Collectors Edition and the masses go nom nom nom in defense of an overpriced product.

Sounds like great marketing logic.

It is less expensive than a regular box xpac fee + a year worth of subscription to WoW.  $15 * 12 + $60 = $240.  Additionally at the end of that year you don't get to play WoW anymore if you stop paying.

Sounds like little logical thought has gone into your argument.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

you dont need to pay anything to play so i dont see why your whining.

I don't see why having a position that $200 for a top end F2P game pack is too much is whining.  Then again it's easier to say that than address the "issue."

Why isn't it whining when:

a) no one is forced to pay it to play the game, and

b) you don't even have to play the game, and

c) it is a free world, why should devs be able to charge ANYTHING for their game?

Originally posted by leobre

Here's my take on this:

I just dont understand why not include the beta access on the U$ 20,00 deal, thats what makes it look like a money grab to me.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by leobre

Here's my take on this:

I just dont understand why not include the beta access on the U$ 20,00 deal, thats what makes it look like a money grab to me.

Because BETA is confused with "Head Start".

So you are saying  U$60 gives headstart  but U$ 20 would be impossible ?

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Akumawraith

as to the issue the 200 dollar package isnt  a game pack its a founder pack. which gives access to beta and gives players the abilty to get closer to the Drizzt Do'Urden Charater lore.  Its completely optional, the game is free to play and download. Theres no requirement to pay out the 20, 60 or 200 dollars for founder packs. they are completely optional. I dnt see the issue unless you are one of the gimme generation in which case id call it whining.

So they develop "Founders Packs" that noone "has" to buy and advertise it like crazy including on the Champions Online and Star Trek Online logon screens in hopes of noone buying it.

Or

They overprice them to the point of them being more expensive than any WoW Collectors Edition and the masses go nom nom nom in defense of an overpriced product.

Sounds like great marketing logic.

It is less expensive than a regular box xpac fee + a year worth of subscription to WoW.  $15 * 12 + $60 = $240.  Additionally at the end of that year you don't get to play WoW anymore if you stop paying.

Sounds like little logical thought has gone into your argument.

Wasn't talking about subscription vs F2P and was talking about and comparing buying top end products from WoW and Neverwinter which you ignored and made a post which had nothing to do with a F2P game charging more than Blizzard.

And little thought when into my argument?

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by Torvaldr

You don't have to pay it and you can still play.  Where is the money grab?  What does the mail have to do with anything?

The op is complaining because they're jealous but too cheap to spend the money.

True

An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort. Sounds like a money grab to me.

I think he referring to the lack of physical objects that usually are part of the typical collector's edition package when you're placing a $200 price tag on a service that for all intents and purpose will have no actual price tag.

I think the majority of the complaints are steming from the idea that although we are all in agreement that this is a game and buying one of these $200 packages is a luxury. Cryptic and PW seem be sending conflicting messages with this offer. On one hand we are all safe to assume that the actual game client took a considerably large amount of effort to produce and develop. Yet they price it at $0 (F2P) and it holds no real value. And on the other, we are to accept that this package priced at $200, which we all know took very little effort to make compared to the actual game, is worth over $500 in value.

Mind you this price point is more than any other mmo collector's edition, which include both physical as well as digital content, released so far.

So it's not about feeling jealous or being cheap. It's about the mindset of developers and how they feel about the value of their player base. Do we mean so little to them that they are so willing to throw out such a rediculous price for their western player base so quickly? Why must we get less and less with every new mmo released and pay higher prices for it?

First, thanks for making a thoughtful post.  Even though I don't agree, at least you took the time to reason it through and that seems so rare lately.

This is the basis of my argument.  The fact that it is not a barrier to entry, makes the complaint a convenience issue.

When defining something as a money grab there are a few very subjective terms in the concept.  That is the Oxford dictionary definition.  The Urban Dictionary has another interesting definition: "Obtaining money from someone without returning anything of real value. Requiring someone to pay a fee out of purely greedy or opportunistic motives."

It's true the actual package likely took little effort to assemble, but the components did take effort.  So, at face value without looking at the entire package, one might try and label it as a money grab.  But in light of the entire project I don't consider it unscrupulous or undignified to recoup costs.

I like the Urban dictionary definition too because it defines what that unscrupulous and undignified behavior is: an opportunistic fee without a return of real value.  That is also subjective, but let's look at that $200 package - 3 extra character slots, 750K astral diamonds (analogous to Dilithium in STO), extra inventory bags (for each character), a mount, and a combat pet, along with an exclusive appearance skin.  While I might not consider that worth $200, I do consider that a return of value for the money.  Not only that the fee is not required, which is also part of the Urban definition.  Therefore, I conclude it's not a money grab.  It is however a high end luxury package likely targeted at enthusiasts.

The OP used the word jealous to paint a picture of class disparity.  That's not my word, but theirs.  I took issue with that and, though entitlement is thrown around loosely now, the OPs post is the definition of self-entitlement. 

Most of these items, except the possibility that the skins are exclusive, will be available for purchase after the game goes live.  The fact that the OP and the rest of the dissenters are angry shows that they want the package, giving it value, but don't want to pay.  What other games charge is irrelevant.  If I were to go buy WoW today (just standard) and pay for a years sub it would cost me over $240, plus there is the cash shop there.  It's more money, but it is irrelevant to what everyone else charges with regards to being fair.  We live in a capitalist commericalistic society and we inform businesses on what is fair by purchasing or not purchasing their product.  What Cryptic is charging is expensive, no argument there, and I'm not buying one, but it's totally fair and ethical.

edit: forgot to add colors.

Originally posted by mikuniman
$59 is pretty much the norm for any video game, $199 is pricey imo but it's for folks who like all the goodies, I'm glad that option makes them happy. Being ftp it's a choice I don't get the bitching, especially since people who pay any real currency are the ones funding the game. It's amazing people expect to game for 100's of hours for free and still complain. Honestly you think these people popping out games work for free?

The problem is the game is entirely free - the benefits you get from spending said $59 nets you very little. It doesn't net you the game, you already get that for free.

What if you had to pay $120 NWO to get the stuff that is $60? Would that somehow be worth it?

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Akumawraith

as to the issue the 200 dollar package isnt  a game pack its a founder pack. which gives access to beta and gives players the abilty to get closer to the Drizzt Do'Urden Charater lore.  Its completely optional, the game is free to play and download. Theres no requirement to pay out the 20, 60 or 200 dollars for founder packs. they are completely optional. I dnt see the issue unless you are one of the gimme generation in which case id call it whining.

So they develop "Founders Packs" that noone "has" to buy and advertise it like crazy including on the Champions Online and Star Trek Online logon screens in hopes of noone buying it.

Or

They overprice them to the point of them being more expensive than any WoW Collectors Edition and the masses go nom nom nom in defense of an overpriced product.

Sounds like great marketing logic.

It is less expensive than a regular box xpac fee + a year worth of subscription to WoW.  $15 * 12 + $60 = $240.  Additionally at the end of that year you don't get to play WoW anymore if you stop paying.

Sounds like little logical thought has gone into your argument.

Wasn't talking about subscription vs F2P and was talking about and comparing buying top end products from WoW and Neverwinter which you ignored and made a post which had nothing to do with a F2P game charging more than Blizzard.

And little thought when into my argument?

LIttle logical thought went into it.  Logic was the keyword.  The ridiculous "nom nom nom" comment to make purchasers sound like idiots only supports that you're using a baseless emotional argument and not logic.

You can't take each fee and charge in a vacuum.  You're talking about the expense of playing the game.  For one the WoW expac/box fee is required to play the game.  The founder pack is not.

What I hear you saying is that this is expensive compared to WoW.  What I'm saying is that there are other costs to WoW that end up making it a potentially more expensive package overall an option for one game is not more expensive than the requirement for the other.

To turn that argument around, let's say I don't buy any founder packs so my cost of entry is $0, but WoW charges at least $60 as a base entry just to start playing the game, in addition to continued recurring fees and a cash shop.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

To turn that argument around, let's say I don't buy any founder packs so my cost of entry is $0, but WoW charges at least $60 as a base entry just to start playing the game, in addition to continued recurring fees and a cash shop.

actually WOW is free for the first 20 levels. So you *can* start at $0.

But the point is well taken. It is silly to complain about how a FREE-to-play game is priced. Don't like the price, don't pay it. No one is forcing you.

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

Let the silly rich people think they're getting a deal with beta access.

In general, people don't become rich by being "silly" with their money.  Lottery winners being the notable exception.