Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by delete5230

Longevity and community

No one sticks around anymore....Why ?.........No Community, The last time I have seen an mmo with true community tools were the old Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 days. I'm not talking about liking a game or not, I'm talking about community !....Real servers, very simple.

The last time you saw a community that shared your views.

EQ2 still has a real community.

If thats what you are looking for support the older games that foster it with your dollar is my advice. If you find reasons (excuses?) not to and just choose to slavishly haul your arse from one new shiney release to the next then you are adding to the problem, not helping it.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

If you guys spent half as much time being part of a community as you do complaining they don't exist, you'd enjoy MMOs a lot more. The former takes more effort, though.

I agree with Lok here.

Less complaining about 'lack of community' and more active effort in forming/ supporting one please.

Whining on forums about it means nothing.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Disagree
Coh released around same time that had strong community..

...on certain servers. Others, you could hear the crickets chirping.

I had toons on eight of them (originally). And their individual amosphere (ala general chat) were very very different from one to the next. Night and Day.

This whole thing is so hit or miss, it's ridiculous. There are aspects of "right place/right time" to every opinion expressed thus far in this thread. It's unbelievably subjective.

But I do suspect the ones habitually most "grumpy" are the ones extending the least of themselves in the way of open hands and effort. Suspect! Can't proove.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Loktofeit

If you guys spent half as much time being part of a community as you do complaining they don't exist, you'd enjoy MMOs a lot more. The former takes more effort, though.

 

I agree with Lok here.

Less complaining about 'lack of community' and more active effort in forming/ supporting one please.

Whining on forums about it means nothing.

Community is fostered by game mechanics that encourage social behaviour. It is as much a development issue as it is a social issue. Actively trying to support the community will only get you so far when everyone else is essentially discouraged from socialising due to game mechanics.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Alberel

Your post also implies you don't understand what people mean by 'community' in the general sense. If you have to deliberately find a community to be a part of then that's a clique not a community. The community is the player population as a whole, it is something you are a part of simply by playing. They used to be much more positive and constructive, people helped each other, and simply by playing the game you would become involved with the community as it was generally beneficial to be social with everyone. Yes there were bad apples there but they were balanced out by the golden apples... these days the general community has almost nothing but bad apples. The result is everyone isolates themselves into cliques called guilds and chooses not to socialise with anyone outside their circle.

Neat hippy lovefest view, but that's neither how it was before nor how it is now.

Also, to correct azzamasin on the definition of community, when he clearly explains he is talking about a group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists, is a bit ridiculous. Did you use 'clique' to give it a negative light or do you not know the meaning of community as generally used? Are you confusing community with playerbase?

Either you were part of the previous cliques or you are looking at things with rose-colored glasses. There was never a universal lovefest - not now, not before, not even on earth... ever. There were always countless smaller communities. Your perception is based on having views in line with the communities most common back then and having less in common with the communities most common  now.

I love how you seem to know my entire MMO gaming history and what experiences I had. Presuming to know me says more about you than me...

I also love how you seem to be blind to the fact that the playerbase IS the overall community of an MMO. I never said anything about a lovefest; notice I mentioned there were equally as many bad apples. The point was they were balanced out by positive social experiences that simply don't happen now, or at least very very rarely if ever. It has nothing to do with having views in common with communities back then. It's on a more fundamental level than that. Individual players (and I mean total strangers) were generally nicer and more helpful back then (cue your mindless rose tinted glasses retort) which meant a more positive social experience for everyone and a positive community for the game. It wasn't a universal lovefest but it was a damn sight better than what we have now.

Feel free to retort with more drivel about how I'm remembering it wrong.

Originally posted by Latronus

Originally posted by delete5230

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

I agree with a lot of what you said.  The thing is though.  If my grandpa had played an MMO he likely would have said the same thing about UO, EQ etc.

The generations and lifestyles are different so the market adjusts.  From my perspective it is only likley to get worse. . but then I don't have as much time to play anymore either.

*sad bugle music*

Well I really dont think that the generations of people really asked for the new changes, but the developers are pushing this new crap on us.

I disagree with this.  The entitlement generation wants instant gratification or they whine, rant, and leave.  They want to do everything solo and having to talk to people is counter productive.  It isn't that the devs are forcing this on us, but the masses are wanting it. 

This sadly.

I honestly thought "community" went downhill with vanilla WoW (nver played EQ2)

(More than a few) People would have sold their mother for the next piece of loot, or to be able to jump up to the next guild that had a little more progession. It seemed (to me anyhow) it was all about the individual, even in quite a few guilds that were opposed to that.

I'm not saying everyone, or every guild was like this, and i'm sure yours wasn't. I just happen to see (what i thought was)  a lot of it. It almost seemed like your "enemy" back then was your own faction. Do whatever it takes to progress.

I mean, maybe it was a community, just not one i particularly cared for.

If you mean 'forced' community - then you can have it. If you mean people WHO WANT TO PLAY together, then I will deal with that. SO far, that is what I am doing in GW2, the guild is my community to play in. They are doing things together and that is the important part.

Others in GW2, other guilds also will associate with other players, it is their modus opperandi. I just rrestarted TERA and the chat is infantile and banal, this is on the server I started a new character on. I have not got back to one of the other servers where I have 2 other characters.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

^This

Originally posted by Alberel

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Loktofeit

If you guys spent half as much time being part of a community as you do complaining they don't exist, you'd enjoy MMOs a lot more. The former takes more effort, though.

 

I agree with Lok here.

Less complaining about 'lack of community' and more active effort in forming/ supporting one please.

Whining on forums about it means nothing.

Community is fostered by game mechanics that encourage social behaviour. It is as much a development issue as it is a social issue. Actively trying to support the community will only get you so far when everyone else is essentially discouraged from socialising due to game mechanics.

Yes. I have been saying this for years.

But it still takes people to support those games that do this with their dollar, rather then supporting those that don't because they are shiney and new.

If you don't show a market for a certain type of design philosophy then games won't be made that philosphy, that's mainly what I am saying in this thread.

Never underestimate an individual's impact on a community though, whatever the design. I have seen entire server's culture turned from toxic to pleasent by a single active member before.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Never underestimate an individual's impact on a community though, whatever the design. I have seen entire server's culture turned from toxic to pleasent by a single active member before.

Particularly when "community" is judged by "forum", yes.

On that note, whatever happened to "mentors"? Swallowed up by "Massive", I presume?

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Still think war and lotr had better community than vanilla wow and they came several years later.

Not as good as daoc community though, that's the best game I've played community wise, with probably coh in 2nd.

I can agree with that. LOtRO had a great community before it went F2P, and WAR had an excellent community for the first 6 months or so, but it has degenerated significantly since then. I think PQs helped a lot with people making friends in WAR even if people don't like to admit to those being a good idea.