Trending Games | ArcheAge | Elder Scrolls Online | Archlord 2 | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,801,580 Users Online:0
Games:725  Posts:6,196,557
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » no dependancy issues here

8 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
147 posts found
  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 10:44:30 AM#61
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

Its not about endgame its about philosophy behind the game.

If i want to play latest content, yes, im forced to grind that gear in a very specific way, and thus you cannot play how you like.

But then, noone is forced to play SWTOR at all, its just your example of the game that severly limits one aspect of gameplay opposed to one which doesnt.

And, what a coincidence, i also answered post above because i knew youll go there.

Originally posted by grimal

Actually, some of the puzzles in TSW are quite hard.  But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole game is.  But then what MMORPG has actually been hard, much less a trinity-based one.

I didnt know that puzzles require trinity or that without trinity you cant have puzzles. Its actually confirmation that once you disregard trinity you can make game hard, you cant make trinity hard because its most simple model there is.

You're changing the argument.

I originally applied to Aer's statement (see below).  What you are talking about is very different.  As for your final comment, again you are changing what I was saying.

"how are you forced to do dungeons? or WvW? or how are you forced to do the new guild quests they are adding? its all optional stuff to allow people to play in groups in a MMO.. Can you hit level 80 and not do a single one of those grouped things? can you get full set of exotic gear and not be forced into a group a single second?  do people even read what they write sometimes? you are seriouslly bitching about them adding more group content in an MMO? There is so much content you can complete in this game at the solo level some additional group stuff is very welcomed"

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  Muntz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 280

2/07/13 10:45:39 AM#62
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid.  Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid.  It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture. 

Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it?  Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).

Ok so say the word "forced" is replaced with "funnelled". I've never felt funnelled in GW1 or GW2. You can try and make an argument that the FotM addition is funnelling and I'd agree to some small degree it is. However, it is not required to play any content in the game.

Contrast this to the traditional raiding games they are usually tiered so that you are required to get all or some of the drops from the first to move to the second. So you can not experience all of the content without going through the funnel. You certainly can resist funnelling sounds like you do but your not experincing the whole game. If you don't want to good on you then.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 10:49:39 AM#63
Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid.  Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid.  It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture. 

Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it?  Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).

Ok so say the word "forced" is replaced with "funnelled". I've never felt funnelled in GW1 or GW2. You can try and make an argument that the FotM addition is funnelling and I'd agree to some small degree it is. However, it is not required to play any content in the game.

Contrast this to the traditional raiding games they are usually tiered so that you are required to get all or some of the drops from the first to move to the second. So you can not experience all of the content without going through the funnel. You certainly can resist funnelling sounds like you do but your not experincing the whole game. If you don't want to good on you then.

Read Aerowyn's statement I was debating.   I can replace "funnelled" in there and it still applies.  I am not funnelled to do any of those other activities (Flashpoints, Raiding, etc) to get to max level.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  User Deleted
2/07/13 10:53:15 AM#64
Originally posted by grimal

Read Aerowyn's statement I was debating.   I can replace "funnelled" in there and it still applies.  I am not funnelled to do any of those other activities (Flashpoints, Raiding, etc) to get to max level.

It mentiones MORE than going to max level, if you do selective reading you get your responses.

As a matter of fact, staement about gear has more bearing to person Aerowyn responded to because thats what he QQes about because thats what SWTOR, WoW, Rift, LOTRO and the rest are all about and thats what GW2 does in completely different way and you wont end up with gimped character because youre forced to do things you dont like like in those games.

  Eir_S

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4697

GW2 socialist.

2/07/13 10:53:44 AM#65
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid.  Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid.  It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture. 

Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it?  Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).

I don't feel forced to play most games.  I felt forced to play a gear grind in WoW.  You know there's a reason for that right?  They string you along so that you have to aquire better gear before you can aquire better gear.  That's force.  Getting to level 80 and being able to buy max stat gear OR just going into a lvl 80 dungeon without it is not.  Games like WoW are designed to keep you p(l)aying.  You're stretching this pretty far by saying "every game".  Don't be obtuse, you know what I mean.

Anyway, if your argument is that you aren't forced to play endgame, true, no one is and I agree.  Mine is that you cannot experience all of the content in most MMOs like you can in GW2 without a massive, repetitive grind (usually with people you can't stand in my experience).

  Muntz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 280

2/07/13 10:56:27 AM#66
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid.  Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid.  It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture. 

Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it?  Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).

Ok so say the word "forced" is replaced with "funnelled". I've never felt funnelled in GW1 or GW2. You can try and make an argument that the FotM addition is funnelling and I'd agree to some small degree it is. However, it is not required to play any content in the game.

Contrast this to the traditional raiding games they are usually tiered so that you are required to get all or some of the drops from the first to move to the second. So you can not experience all of the content without going through the funnel. You certainly can resist funnelling sounds like you do but your not experincing the whole game. If you don't want to good on you then.

Read Aerowyn's statement I was debating.   I can replace "funnelled" in there and it still applies.  I am not funnelled to do any of those other activities (Flashpoints, Raiding, etc) to get to max level.

OK re-read Aerowyn's statement says more then just max level it talks about gear as well. No doubt in the raid oriented games I've played you can indeed get to make max level in may different ways that don't require you to raid. However, to get the best gear you are certainly funneled to the raid content. 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2675

There... are... four... lights!

2/07/13 11:18:31 AM#67
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

Actually, some of the puzzles in TSW are quite hard.  But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole game is.  But then what MMORPG has actually been hard, much less a trinity-based one.

I didnt know that puzzles require trinity or that without trinity you cant have puzzles. Its actually confirmation that once you disregard trinity you can make game hard, you cant make trinity hard because its most simple model there is.

TSW puzzles definitely don't require the trinity at all. I don't even now why he posted that, it's totally irrelevant.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  eyelolled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3083

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  2/07/13 12:48:45 PM#68
Originally posted by muthax

Funny thing, after the inclusion of "dodging 15 attacks" in  daily Achievements, I seen in chat a lot of questions on the tune of "How do I dodge?!?".

That shines a lot of light on the reasons why 'some people' didn't like GW2 combat ....

I think the dodging acheivement was a superb idea, that helps guide players to become better players.  Anet really has some good ideas for using simple things to have great consequences.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2567

2/07/13 12:52:57 PM#69
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

You aren't forced to do end game, but if you want you will have to grind gear doing quests or dungeons.

You aren't forced to get max stats, but if you want you need to do end game.

GW2 changes that (now that Anet is sorting that ascended debacle) by allowing you to get max stats by doing whatever you want and allowing to enjoy whatever activities you want without a gear check.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 2:51:11 PM#70
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

Read Aerowyn's statement I was debating.   I can replace "funnelled" in there and it still applies.  I am not funnelled to do any of those other activities (Flashpoints, Raiding, etc) to get to max level.

It mentiones MORE than going to max level, if you do selective reading you get your responses.

As a matter of fact, staement about gear has more bearing to person Aerowyn responded to because thats what he QQes about because thats what SWTOR, WoW, Rift, LOTRO and the rest are all about and thats what GW2 does in completely different way and you wont end up with gimped character because youre forced to do things you dont like like in those games.

Aerowyn's statement:

"how are you forced to do dungeons? or WvW? or how are you forced to do the new guild quests they are adding? its all optional stuff to allow people to play in groups in a MMO.. Can you hit level 80 and not do a single one of those grouped things? can you get full set of exotic gear and not be forced into a group a single second?  do people even read what they write sometimes? you are seriouslly bitching about them adding more group content in an MMO? There is so much content you can complete in this game at the solo level some additional group stuff is very welcomed"

I was replying to the parts highlighted.  But the mention of exotic gear.....there is no eqivalent in SWTOR (actually I guess it is the social gear where you do have to do some sort of social grind)..but in the end, you are not forced to have those social gear items for anything in the game as they are just cosmetic much like the exotic gear in GW2.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 2:52:56 PM#71
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

Actually, some of the puzzles in TSW are quite hard.  But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole game is.  But then what MMORPG has actually been hard, much less a trinity-based one.

I didnt know that puzzles require trinity or that without trinity you cant have puzzles. Its actually confirmation that once you disregard trinity you can make game hard, you cant make trinity hard because its most simple model there is.

TSW puzzles definitely don't require the trinity at all. I don't even now why he posted that, it's totally irrelevant.

I jumped in the argument halfway and was just responding to the point of 'naming a trinity based game with difficulty'.

So, TSW is trinity game and does have some difficult elements.  Just pointing out that fact.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 2:56:17 PM#72
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

I think he's saying that to experience ALL of the content, you're going to have to raid.  Sure, endgame is never necessary to enjoy a game, but to enjoy it fully, you're going to need to bust your ass for weeks or more likely, months, for the low low chance of getting those purple pants that increase the odds people will invite you to another raid.  It's a ridiculous hamster wheel that I never really noticed the futility of until I got off of it for a while, stepped back, and saw the big picture. 

Well, if you are putting that clause in, then every game forces you to experience its content, doesn't it?  Therefore, I am forced to do the grind in every game (GW2 included).

I don't feel forced to play most games.  I felt forced to play a gear grind in WoW.  You know there's a reason for that right?  They string you along so that you have to aquire better gear before you can aquire better gear.  That's force.  Getting to level 80 and being able to buy max stat gear OR just going into a lvl 80 dungeon without it is not.  Games like WoW are designed to keep you p(l)aying.  You're stretching this pretty far by saying "every game".  Don't be obtuse, you know what I mean.

Anyway, if your argument is that you aren't forced to play endgame, true, no one is and I agree.  Mine is that you cannot experience all of the content in most MMOs like you can in GW2 without a massive, repetitive grind (usually with people you can't stand in my experience).

What about the dungeons?  If I want to experience all that is GW2 I need to do the dungeons.  I hated the dungeon experience.  So call it "grind", call it "dungeons"...if you want to experience the entirety of a game, chances are you are going to experience something you dont enjoy.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1853

2/07/13 2:59:07 PM#73
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by grimal

What do you mean for stats? As in gear?  Well, I don't know, to be honest.  But I am not forced to get max gear,  That I know.

How convenient, you dont know. I bet you also dont know that endgame in SWTOR IS gear check, so if you want to play content you MUST grind your gear in a very specific way, be it PvP or PvE.

Well, now you know.

I am not forced to do endgame.  Isn't that what we are talking about?  Being forced to do or not do something?

And what exactly is forcing you to do that grind?  The game itself?

 

Edit: and why the hostile attitiude?

You aren't forced to do end game, but if you want you will have to grind gear doing quests or dungeons.

You aren't forced to get max stats, but if you want you need to do end game.

GW2 changes that (now that Anet is sorting that ascended debacle) by allowing you to get max stats by doing whatever you want and allowing to enjoy whatever activities you want without a gear check.

 

See, this is something I don't understand.  I get trying to get better gear to boost your gameplay experience for the journey...but the whole notion of getting max stats for the sake of it all just doesn't jive with me.  I just don't get it.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3138

2/07/13 3:03:05 PM#74
If you don't like the dungeons don't do em, you certainly don't need to do them. your contradicting yourself, you either hate dungeons or you want to do them. Sometimes I fancy pvp in gw2 sometimes I fancy wvw sometimes I explore for puzzles, sometimes I do the daily, sometimes I do dungeons - none of em depend on each other.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

2/07/13 3:09:57 PM#75

Legendaries......on par with the best korean grinder/RNG games known to man.

 

Personal story....solo until you get to the last part and then its forced grouping.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3138

2/07/13 3:26:09 PM#76
Lol, yes there is 1 quest at the end of the entire chain you do from 1-80 with a reward worth a few silver. A legendary is just a skin, you certainly don't need either to play any of the content in the game, your grasping at straws. Forced traditionally in mmorgs means you MUST continue to upgrade or you cannot play the new content.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3138

2/07/13 3:28:46 PM#77
Ps I love the legendary grind it's a real long term goal, not an 'epic' you get with 2 weeks worth of epgp points or a bit of luck.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/07/13 3:45:27 PM#78
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by eyelolled 

But with GW2 and the open grouping system, people can still play together to acheive an objective, but there isn't a power struggle over who gets to drive the group. There isn't an abused newcomer, belittled and ridiculed.  There isn't a devalued dependant, who is looking for the next group to hide in.  There is just a gathering of players, working together to finish the task at hand. They are equals. They are valued and appreciated. They are heroes. 

Not for long, along with forcing people to WvW and do dungeons, they'll be adding the new "feature" of requiring people to do guild events this month. So much for choose to play your own way.

how are you forced to do dungeons? or WvW? or how are you forced to do the new guild quests they are adding? its all optional stuff to allow people to play in groups in a MMO.. Can you hit level 80 and not do a single one of those grouped things? can you get full set of exotic gear and not be forced into a group a single second?  do people even read what they write sometimes? you are seriouslly bitching about them adding more group content in an MMO? There is so much content you can complete in this game at the solo level some additional group stuff is very welcomed

Hate to jump into the argument midway, but seems I am already doing it.

I keep seeing you use this point, Aer, but there are many games that don't force you to do things you don't want.  Take SWTOR for example.  I am not forced to do any Flashpoints, PVP or raids.  I can level all the way to 50 without doing any.  I can even skip the main storyline and simply do side quests, or reverse. 

So I fail to see how you can use this for GW2 as if it is some sort of unique aspect to the gameplay.

 

OP - I liked your post.  I have to admit, I have not seen any comments like "noob" etc in-game in turns of my playstyle.  And if the mechanics are themselves pushing people to work together, that should be commended.  However, if this is true, I wonder how long it will last.  MMOs were a niche over a decade ago and it would be much more common to find others working together in communities back then...it wasn't until they became more mainstream and those type of players joined the space that we began to see this behavior as more common.

If what you say is true, I can only think it will be a matter of time before that mentality becomes more common in this game as well.

where did a say anywhere it was unique to GW2? i was stating you can play how you want in this game solo or group and get to 80 but like all MMOs there is plenty of content that is for "GROUPS" thats all and really not sure how people can get mad by that. Not sure why you assumed I was saying this was unique to GW2.. i  just found itgrowls statement very odd that it sounded like he is upset they are adding group content.. thats all

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1833

2/07/13 3:53:46 PM#79
Originally posted by eyelolled

There are lots of reasons to praise GW2, and by all means, I have no intention of mentioning them all in this thread. The one thing that really sets GW2 above so many typical mmorpgs, is how the game doesn't make player feel "under the thumb" of others. Players work together naturally, and the flow of the game contributes to players learning how to help improve each others damage, tanking, crowd control or healing. It's amazing watching the synergies between players grow as it progresses through a dynamic event chain.  People working together because they can, because they are seeing more ways that their own character can add to the fight beyond just dps or heals or just standing there taking hits. Things like a necro moving over to drop a well around a ranger, to add the cross-profession combo letting the ranger do more damage.  It's not only about maxing out what your toon can do, but helping to max out what other players can do too,and only because you can not because you have to.    

 

Other games keep players of one role utterly dependant on another, leaving them with little choice but to submit to putting up with the irritations of their own group, in addition to the frustrations of opposing characters and such. How often have we heard the tank telling the healer how to heal, or the healer telling the tank how to mitigate damage.  The rage and frustration that game design leads to is absolutely defeating to newcomers. The learning curve is strife with abuse and beratement, and undoubtedly the greatest cause for the callous term "noob". And what choice does the newcomer have? They have to fill a role, because the game defines them as a dependant. They are forced to be reliant on the goodwill of others, and typically, too many  "others" don't let them forget it either. 

 

I suggest that this treatment is cyclical in nature as well, and that it creates a roll-over from one player to another. In cases of mental abuse it has been observed that as much as 70% of abusers were abused themselves.  There is no way to derive an accurate number of the counter point, but it's easy to assume that a large percentage of people that were initiated within dependancy role will become dependant upon the role structure in the future. 

 

They become climatized to the role of  "be a good *** so nobody can complain" They develop a sense of  "in-game worth" in accordance to how others regard them. Left alone, they can't define their value. They have become dependant, on being dependant.

 

But with GW2 and the open grouping system, people can still play together to acheive an objective, but there isn't a power struggle over who gets to drive the group. There isn't an abused newcomer, belittled and ridiculed.  There isn't a devalued dependant, who is looking for the next group to hide in.  There is just a gathering of players, working together to finish the task at hand. They are equals. They are valued and appreciated. They are heroes. 

That's your opinion, but in my almost 13 years of MMORPG gaming, I've very rarely have been in a bad group, and even more rare than that has it been because someone was being a tool. I just haven't really run into the situations you illustrate in your post. I happen to like very rigid group roles like classic MMORPG's. It taught people how to work together and people got to know not only their classes very well, but the classes of the people who they played with day in and day out. 

I gave GW2 a chance, fulling expecting to have fun, but in the end it felt like every class was essentially a dps/support character which is incredibly boring, not to mention not very effective for grouping...at least for noobs to the game.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/07/13 4:03:38 PM#80
Originally posted by nate1980

That's your opinion, but in my almost 13 years of MMORPG gaming, I've very rarely have been in a bad group, and even more rare than that has it been because someone was being a tool. I just haven't really run into the situations you illustrate in your post. I happen to like very rigid group roles like classic MMORPG's. It taught people how to work together and people got to know not only their classes very well, but the classes of the people who they played with day in and day out. 

I gave GW2 a chance, fulling expecting to have fun, but in the end it felt like every class was essentially a dps/support character which is incredibly boring, not to mention not very effective for grouping...at least for noobs to the game.

 

Pure "your mileage may vary" thing. You prefer hard set roles as to many others. In that case this won't be the ideal game for you, it's as simple as that. Personally,  I like the dynamic element to the combat where roles are dissolved and instead you use the attributes of your skills (damage, control and support elements) in the right situation for best effect. My only beef with your statement is that you left "control" out of "every character was essentially a dps/support". We're all dps/control/support at need. We also should keep in mind that we synergize with each other for added benefits (cross-profession combos). Simple example, one utility I carry is Null Field. Lovely skill it is... a target AoE field which strips boons off enemies and conditions off allies. That by itself is pretty sweet... but when I cast that lovely shimmering ring inevitably someone is firing projectiles through it adding stacks of confusion to the enemies. Someone else will use a stomp or other blast finisher and suddenly everyone in the area is sporting Chaos Armor. One spell, used right, does all this... especially when combined with other skills used right.

 

Sorry... got to babbling there. Point being, we like what we're comfortable with. If a trinity system best suits you then it is what it is... there's no faults to you, ANet, WoW or the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Different people are different, after all.

Oderint, dum metuant.

8 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search