Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm

 

Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.

 

The combat looks really bad (ref trailers, small clips where fight occurs from the frontside, not the backside).  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.

 

Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything (Zenimax statement) .. you just stand there and watch others hit you while you graphically-less do damage.

 

But by all means, advertise away!

Source for your material?

 

 

Ohh thats right you have none, your purely speculating to advance your own personal agenda.  The zones are the same size as the single player games which are relatively big.  Plus each faction has 3 zones to explore so your automatically incorrect.  On a related note it isnt even the size that matters its the content thats in it.  Everyone thats ever played a bethesda game knows the zones are chalk full of explorable nooks and crannys.  Cant go 2 mins in skyrim without having 3-4 POI's on your compass to explore and god knows in a year and a half of me playing there has been alot of replayability due to the sheer amount of explorable content.

(RED) Keep telling yourself that as you hype up for relase!   Everyone knows MMORPG content is more detailed than single player games!

 

btw, the source is in the maps I posted, indicating size.

The only source you gave is showing that the oblivion map isn't half the size of a WoW continent... You provided none about everything else you said.

Originally posted by Karteli

Everyone knows MMORPG content is more detailed than single player games!

I've seen too many MMOs with little to no content to automatically believe that. Even those that claim to have more often end up with a lot of zones that end up feeling almost identical in terms of content,with the only differences being higher stats and different skins on the mobs, and so-called end game content is even worse in that department. In the meantime, many single players games recently have proven that having a dedicated storyline doesn't mean a lack of content; even the plain out of the box Skyrim experience contains as much unique content as many MMO's and Dragon Age wasn't all that far behind some of the F2P MMOs being released today. And those are just the single player games I have personal experience with; I'm sure others could cite other examples where the line between single player content and MMO content is not so clear.

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Problem is... I've seen all the trailers and didnt see the stuff you're talking about. I've seen an alpha "treat" to make ppl drool... and it did. The errors I've seen wasnt errors, its an alpha and yes, contrary to what you think, that actually matters. They release something for us that for them is actually outdated.

Or show me that video you're talking about.

As for first person... well... http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2012/10/24/dive-into-the-eso-preview-event-coverage says it has it... and... I didnt see any statement from zenimax saying your weapon will not show up...

On the official forums it says that the devs are working on making weapons visible...

Are you on an alternate universe? Or me...?

Seriously... your info has NOTHING to do with mine.

On your first portion, questioning combat, see the trailer:

The Elder Scrolls Online Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEipFtHw7o

With notes to 2:25 and 4:45.  All combat inbetween seems rather lame, actually.  Most combat scenes in the trailer are from the back end so you can't see the horrible animations.  They are "prettied" up with a bunch of sparkly particle effects.

I had my gripes with SWTOR, but they did choreographed combat (animating dodges, hits, evades, blocks, reflects, etc) showing every combat move, graphically.  I'd consider ESO comwhere around EQ or WoW.

--

On the second note about not being able to see your hands / weapons:

Elder Scrolls Online’s game director explains how you’ll be a standout badass among badasses

Wed, Jan 30, 2013

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/elder-scrolls-onlines-game-director-explains-how-youll-be-a-standout-badass

The Elder Scrolls Online beta isn’t live yet, but sign-ups are underway and developers ZeniMax Online are prepping for the influx of players. But before Khajiit, High Elf, Argonian and Breton start to conquer Tamriel, the Report asked game director Matt Firor to shed some light on the world of Elder Scrolls Online.

Porting a previously single-player experience to the MMO space can be tricky, especially with a property loved by so many. Game play changes have to be made – you can move the camera to first-person in ESO, but you won’t see your hands or weapons as in previous games, and the realistic visuals have been dropped – and in an MMO space, you might be sharing the role of hero with hundreds, if not thousands of other players.

There ya go !  Pretty sad, eh?  Then again, perhaps one of us is living in an alternate universe!

As an addendum, the no graphical weapons or hands in first person mode was covered last week on GamebreakerTV's TWIMMO:

This link should take you right to the portion:

TWIMMO (This Week in MMO) EP130: PlanetSide 2, The Elder Scrolls Online and Neverwinter

Published on Feb 2, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqgD6HRbWsI&feature=player_detailpage#t=1344s

Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm

 

Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.

 

The combat looks really bad (ref trailers, small clips where fight occurs from the frontside, not the backside).  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.

 

Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything (Zenimax statement) .. you just stand there and watch others hit you while you graphically-less do damage.

 

But by all means, advertise away!

Totally disagree with this poster, but so will most people, so Id ignore him...especially because of his references to size (which is inaccurate) and associating that with exploration because we all know that just because a world is big (SWTOR) doesn't mean there is any sense of exploration and Skyrim, though not a huge world, was cleverly designed in more of a vertical way as well (mountains, etc) that made it feel much bigger than it really was. I think the combat looks in a very good state and the graphics/artistry for an MMO look awesome. Talk about egocentric..."People who know games"...baiting at its best.

Originally posted by keithian

Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm

 

Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.

 

The combat looks really bad (ref trailers, small clips where fight occurs from the frontside, not the backside).  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.

 

Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything (Zenimax statement) .. you just stand there and watch others hit you while you graphically-less do damage.

 

But by all means, advertise away!

Totally disagree with this poster, but so will most people, so Id ignore him...especially because of his references to size (which is inaccurate) and associating that with exploration because we all know that just because a world is big (SWTOR) doesn't mean there is any sense of exploration and Skyrim, though not a huge world, was cleverly designed in more of a vertical way as well (mountains, etc) that made it feel much bigger than it really was. I think the combat looks in a very good state and the graphics/artistry for an MMO look awesome. Talk about egocentric..."People who know games"...baiting at its best.

Read the post about yours, watch the link too, because it contains direct interviews from Zenimax.  But by all means, make a statement by closing your eyes, pretending that TESO will be on the level of Skyrim.  Ignoring those who bring sanity to the hype madness isn't going to make TESO a better game.

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Originally posted by Karteli

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Originally posted by deakon

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Originally posted by Karteli

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

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Originally posted by Karteli Hmm   Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.   The combat looks really bad.  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.   Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything .. you just stand there,   But by all means, advertise away!

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This again? Damn you guys dont quit... Yes there is faction lock - which is GOOD. Now where does it say that areas are "less than wow single continent" - cyrodiil alone is 1:1 to oblivion - are you crazy? And please show us the footage of the game cause we only have alphas and specially that first person mode you talk about. Why do people talk about stuff they know nothing about? - now regarding that video, op... you can become a vampire or a werewolf as a "perk". Theres a newer video around that they say you can. And dont listen to haters... these guys destroy any good community and bring out the worse in you - yes TESO hopefully will be a great great mmo from what the devs have shown and told so far.

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Did you even check out the map for the gameworld of TESO?  Did you really think than Cyrodiil is magically smaller than other areas with known size?   Watch the trailers man.  Lame footage when it comes to combat.  I showed the trailer to my buddies and we all agree combat was pretty freakin lame.  Frontal combat scenes were shown in 2 spots in the last 9 minute trailer.  Beyond that it was always from the backside, with huge whooptie-doo particle effects to make the scene look interesting.    

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Oblivion is over half the size of kalimdor, we get that plus our faction zones each, so unless you are saying our entire pve leveling area (per faction) is smaller than the pvp map, we will get access to more than a vanilla continent.

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I'd say, no Oblivion isn't.  Maps of size show otherwise, as you have seen already.   It's more like Cyrodiil is about 1/3 the size of a WoW continent.  If you don't like seeing facts, then stop bringing it up.     So, Cyrodiil can hold 2000 players?  Mmm Hmm ...   Oblivion is NOT half the size of a WoW continent.  Devs stated TESO was a 1:1 comparison to Oblivion.

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Look at cyrodiil again put it on its side and look at kalimdor, oh look its over half the size if that is to scale (which its been proven it isn't, lotro 350 times the size of wow lol)

Or we can look at the guy who worked out how big vanilla is, oh look 28 square miles per continent, now its been a while since i was at school but half of 28 is 14 if I'm not mistaken, which is smaller than 16 no? So if 16 is bigger than 14 and 14 is half the size of......wait a minuet, that makes it larger than half! /sarcastic shock

Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm

 

Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.

 

The combat looks really bad (ref trailers, small clips where fight occurs from the frontside, not the backside).  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.

 

Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything (Zenimax statement) .. you just stand there and watch others hit you while you graphically-less do damage.

 

But by all means, advertise away!

Its very much an open world exploration and PvP game.  What you mean to say is it isnt a seemless world and PvP game.  Big difference between the 2.

Originally posted by Eir_S
I don't always agree with Kartelli but he's thorough... and yeah, the combat looks pretty rigid now that you mention it.  There's no follow-through at all, it's like once they hit the enemy, the animation stops prematurely.  It looks a bit outdated, but like the faction locks, it just doesn't scream "Elder Scrolls".  The rest looks pretty good though.

the combat is Pre-Alpha...anyone remember the pre-ALpha footage of WoW?  I sure do and it looked horrid.  lets not judge it till it at least gets to beta, at least by then most of the animations and physix should be fleshed out.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm

 

Each faction is limited to a relatively small area, less than a WoW single continent.  It's not an open world for PVE exploration, and it's also not an open world for PVP.

 

The combat looks really bad (ref trailers, small clips where fight occurs from the frontside, not the backside).  Just avatars swinging weapons at each other lifelessly, with a huge amount of particle effects to make the encounter look lively.  People who know games look past the particle effects.

 

Going into TES first person mode won't even show weapons or swings or anything (Zenimax statement) .. you just stand there and watch others hit you while you graphically-less do damage.

 

But by all means, advertise away!

Source for your material?

 

 

Ohh thats right you have none, your purely speculating to advance your own personal agenda.  The zones are the same size as the single player games which are relatively big.  Plus each faction has 3 zones to explore so your automatically incorrect.  On a related note it isnt even the size that matters its the content thats in it.  Everyone thats ever played a bethesda game knows the zones are chalk full of explorable nooks and crannys.  Cant go 2 mins in skyrim without having 3-4 POI's on your compass to explore and god knows in a year and a half of me playing there has been alot of replayability due to the sheer amount of explorable content.

(RED) Keep telling yourself that as you hype up for relase!   Everyone knows MMORPG content is more detailed than single player games!

 

btw, the source is in the maps I posted, indicating size.

Im not even hyping it, I am plenty of apprehensive about the game on alot of fronts but the things we do know based on the October Press event proved the content was almost exactly similar to Skyrim.  It is Exploration Centric complete with a compass that points toward Points of Interest.  And every one of those POI's had quests attached to it according to ES OTR Podcast and Tamriel Foundry's information.  They both said the content was immense and gratutitous jsut like Skyrim.  The one guys even mentioned they explored the small starter island for 2 hours and still hadnt uncovered al lthe content there.  The 2 guys got lost trying to find each other.  Theres another Podcast where he talks about vertain quests and the other guys were like: WHoooh I never seen that quest. 

SO I'll believe someone who's actually played it over someone with an obvious biased agenda.  To say you dont is laughable.

EDIT: You also fail to mention that your map only shows 1 zone, your forgetting about the other 2.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Problem is... I've seen all the trailers and didnt see the stuff you're talking about. I've seen an alpha "treat" to make ppl drool... and it did. The errors I've seen wasnt errors, its an alpha and yes, contrary to what you think, that actually matters. They release something for us that for them is actually outdated.

Or show me that video you're talking about.

As for first person... well... http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2012/10/24/dive-into-the-eso-preview-event-coverage says it has it... and... I didnt see any statement from zenimax saying your weapon will not show up...

On the official forums it says that the devs are working on making weapons visible...

Are you on an alternate universe? Or me...?

Seriously... your info has NOTHING to do with mine.

On your first portion, questioning combat, see the trailer:

The Elder Scrolls Online Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEipFtHw7o

 

With notes to 2:25 and 4:45.  All combat inbetween seems rather lame, actually.  Most combat scenes in the trailer are from the back end so you can't see the horrible animations.  They are "prettied" up with a bunch of sparkly particle effects.

I had my gripes with SWTOR, but they did choreographed combat (animating dodges, hits, evades, blocks, reflects, etc) showing every combat move, graphically.  I'd consider ESO comwhere around EQ or WoW.

 

--

 

On the second note about not being able to see your hands / weapons:

 

Elder Scrolls Online’s game director explains how you’ll be a standout badass among badasses

Wed, Jan 30, 2013

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/elder-scrolls-onlines-game-director-explains-how-youll-be-a-standout-badass

The Elder Scrolls Online beta isn’t live yet, but sign-ups are underway and developers ZeniMax Online are prepping for the influx of players. But before Khajiit, High Elf, Argonian and Breton start to conquer Tamriel, the Report asked game director Matt Firor to shed some light on the world of Elder Scrolls Online.

 

Porting a previously single-player experience to the MMO space can be tricky, especially with a property loved by so many. Game play changes have to be made – you can move the camera to first-person in ESO, but you won’t see your hands or weapons as in previous games, and the realistic visuals have been dropped – and in an MMO space, you might be sharing the role of hero with hundreds, if not thousands of other players.

 

There ya go !  Pretty sad, eh?  Then again, perhaps one of us is living in an alternate universe!

Who plays MMO's in First Person mode any way?  Thats not they are meant to be played.  THE FP view is more for detailed looking at objects in the world and not combat.  The ability to play Skyrim combat fluidly in third person (more MMO like) greatly contributed to my still playing the game, whereas in Morrowind and Oblivian I beat the main story and never touched them again.

Originally posted by Eir_S

I see a few people here and there (not the majority for sure) saying faction locks is a good thing.

Exactly how...?  This is the worst idea i've heard in a long time.  I am still somewhat interested in the game, but don't make this out to be some genius development plan when it's just something that limits the player in a game series that is traditionally all about NOT limiting the player.  It's pure fail.

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

I want this bad game now..

There you go. I fixed the title for you.

I'm sorry. I could not help myself.

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

I like alts. I am a self confessed altaholic. What if I want to create an alt of another race but that is within the sme faction?

My 2 favorite races are Breton and Orc. In TESO they are both from the same faction. Unless they put in enough content requred to level to 50 with 3 characters of the same faction then I will have to repeat content. The reason I stopped playing TOR for example was, after my 3rd character from the same faction I was falling asleep because all the content was stuff I had done before, twice already.

If there were no faction locked races I could cerate my Breton and level up and then make an Orc and take him to Skyrim or another part of the world, level him up and be 100% guaranteed to not repeat content.

So, if the game doesn't have enough content to level up 3 races from the same faction then your argument about it being good for people who play alts doesn't hold water. And as I said, I am one of those people so it doesn't work for me.

However, if there was only 100% content per currently locked faction available in an open world then I could level up 3 characters, irrespective of race, without having to repeat content.

In comparrison, with faction locked races you will potentially repeate content on your 2nd character. Without faction locked races you would repeat on your 4th.

Of course neither of us know just how much content there is in game but if you look at it logically lacking information then what I have just offered is the best guess as it stands.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

So, if the game doesn't have enough content to level up 3 races from the same faction then your argument about it being good for people who play alts doesn't hold water. And as I said, I am one of those people so it doesn't work for me.

I think you missed the part in yellow.

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Combat. I repeat. Again. Its alpha. Ok? Got it? Alpha before beta... You know that, right?

Hold the front page....you mean to say, due to the complaints, suggestions, observations of people during testing the designers changed, modified and/or improved the game???

And here I thought we were all wasting our breath and that nothing would ever change! Well slap my thigh and call me Suzie, I guess I will keep posting my thoughts and opinions, thanks for the moral boost.