Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by BadSpock

I just find WvW to be a bit boring... unless you get lucky and join up with a good 4-8 person group and actually find small scale combat with other 4-8 person groups.

It actually got me thinking about ways to counter the "zerg" in OWPVP like this through system design.

This is the issue.  GW2 should have been designed with multiple small-team objectives so squads could form up and make a difference.  Some people just don't give a rip about zerging, and I am one of them.  I was bored with WvW after about a week in the game because it was one-dimensional and boring.

There actually are tons of small team objectives, but the rewards/motivations are not there so what happens is the zerg just moves in a big circle chasing another zerg and every once in a while the two zergs meet, one of them wins, and the whole thing starts over.

What they should do?

Divide the maps into many smaller maps - limit players per faction in those smaller maps and allow players to see what maps are populated and what maps need reinforcements / strike teams.

Allow these smaller maps to be controlled and protected from flipping for X amount of time.

Once enough of the smaller maps/objectives are secured for your faction, the larger maps for a lot more players open up for things like keep sieges - then you can get your zerg attacking and zerg defending game on.

Something like that.

The worst part about it is how open it all is. It becomes more efficient to just roll with the zerg and flip objectives.

For me, the main issue is the same one Planetside 2 suffers from.  The entire WvW game is a giant circle-jerk.  Zerg here, Zerg there, rinse, repeat.  

What both of these games need is open land with player-built bases and objectives.  I know this is something SOE wants to eventually do with PS2, but we'll have to see if they follow through.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by BadSpock

I just find WvW to be a bit boring... unless you get lucky and join up with a good 4-8 person group and actually find small scale combat with other 4-8 person groups.

It actually got me thinking about ways to counter the "zerg" in OWPVP like this through system design.

This is the issue.  GW2 should have been designed with multiple small-team objectives so squads could form up and make a difference.  Some people just don't give a rip about zerging, and I am one of them.  I was bored with WvW after about a week in the game because it was one-dimensional and boring.

There actually are tons of small team objectives, but the rewards/motivations are not there so what happens is the zerg just moves in a big circle chasing another zerg and every once in a while the two zergs meet, one of them wins, and the whole thing starts over.

What they should do?

Divide the maps into many smaller maps - limit players per faction in those smaller maps and allow players to see what maps are populated and what maps need reinforcements / strike teams.

Allow these smaller maps to be controlled and protected from flipping for X amount of time.

Once enough of the smaller maps/objectives are secured for your faction, the larger maps for a lot more players open up for things like keep sieges - then you can get your zerg attacking and zerg defending game on.

Something like that.

The worst part about it is how open it all is. It becomes more efficient to just roll with the zerg and flip objectives.

For me, the main issue is the same one Planetside 2 suffers from.  The entire WvW game is a giant circle-jerk.  Zerg here, Zerg there, rinse, repeat.  

What both of these games need is open land with player-built bases and objectives.  I know this is something SOE wants to eventually do with PS2, but we'll have to see if they follow through.

That's a tough sell too though. Ends up leading to major turtling. Territory doesn't change hands very often. Like in EvE. Guilds post up defenders for their holdings and will very rarely take the risk of a major offensive.

I think my solution counters that problem well too. Forces keep holders to defend the smaller objectives with smaller strike teams. Also encourages deploying attack forces to secondary objectives outside the other side's keeps.

If you allow players to gather in mass - they will. You HAVE to direct them. In a sense, you have to control them. Sad but true.

The idea of open PvP in a MMO where this isn't true is an idealistic pipe dream.

Sure, those scenarios do occur from time to time but it's the exception, not the norm.

Originally posted by xArsonistx

 

Yes I have 40k wvw kills I've been on nearly every #1 server since launch. I think my guilds record in WvW before I quit the game was 60-1? lol. Guess what guild I was in. anywho. You tell me who has more experience with wvw's lulz.

 

I've read your post history, and I know that you've never played the game or at least have never played the game past level 10. You completely miss the truth on so many points it's amazing.  It's funny that you try and impress on anyone that you  have 40k kills 

Originally posted by Roxtarr

 

You have them missing March already?  I can spin too, watch this: "ArenaNet is still putting the last bit of polish on the WvW update and it will be deployed as soon as it's ready!"  See, I can say the same thing without the negativity.  Considering the OP's views regarding GW2, I'm not shocked that this would be painted in a negative light. 

Negative light?

So, if a company says 'We will do X by Y' and fails to do so, you want to spin that in a POSITIVE light?

If a company fails to do what they said they will, I would suspect a reasonable person would understand that a customer might be upset. Just maybe? You know?

Jeez, this isn't rocket science. /facepalm

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Roxtarr

 

You have them missing March already?  I can spin too, watch this: "ArenaNet is still putting the last bit of polish on the WvW update and it will be deployed as soon as it's ready!"  See, I can say the same thing without the negativity.  Considering the OP's views regarding GW2, I'm not shocked that this would be painted in a negative light. 

Negative light?

So, if a company says 'We will do X by Y' and fails to do so, you want to spin that in a POSITIVE light?

If a company fails to do what they said they will, I would suspect a reasonable person would understand that a customer might be upset. Just maybe? You know?

Jeez, this isn't rocket science. /facepalm

I would think the degree of upset a resonable customer might have would be based with the explanation, though, wouldn't you? If they simply said it wouldn't be ready or were going to leave out things promised that would be one thing. However Colin gives a reasonable and detailed explanation of what's going on. I give credit where I see it due, and if it takes a few more weeks for the polish and shine phase to produce a bug-free release I'm willing to give it those few more weeks. Besides, it's hardly worth wasting the emotion over this... it's a release date for a little more content in a game being pushed out by a few weeks. Those kinds of things hardly draw more than a raised eyebrow... certainly not a notable emotional response. Sandy Brook - emotional response. 9/11 - emotional response. GW2 delays WvW update a few weeks... ok, I'll wait.

Originally posted by jpnz

Negative light?

So, if a company says 'We will do X by Y' and fails to do so, you want to spin that in a POSITIVE light?

If a company fails to do what they said they will, I would suspect a reasonable person would understand that a customer might be upset. Just maybe? You know?

Jeez, this isn't rocket science. /facepalm

I was going to say, anyone who thinks MMO devs are great at meeting their deadlines and promised release/update dates hasn't been playing in this genre for too long!

After 13+ years playing MMOs, if a developer actually met a deadline I'd be MORE worried because it probably means the content/patch/whatever was rushed, is incomplete, or will be far too buggy/broken.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by xArsonistx

I wanna throw out there I don't blame Anet.

I believe NCsoft put foruth a very ridgid Min/max for bandwidth restraints on ANet due to the game being b2p. They have eluded to as much in some of the comments they have made. They might very well be doing the best they can within the confines of the parameters they are being given but the parameters are so low that even if they do the best they can NCsoft will never allow enough bandwidth to render more then 20 people on screen.

What? NCSoft has nothing to do with "bandwidth"... the entire thing is controlled by ANet here in the US. NCSoft is staying out of the way and collecting profits for their investment.

Your source proving your statement is? Have you seen their contract?

As much as I was looking forward to a major WvW update this month, I can certainly keep waiting another month.  Hopefully March doesn't become April, April become May and so on ...

 

Originally posted by xArsonistx

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by xArsonistx

Originally posted by Roxtarr

Originally posted by xArsonistx

 

Yes I have 40k wvw kills I've been on nearly every #1 server since launch. I think my guilds record in WvW before I quit the game was 60-1? lol. Guess what guild I was in. anywho. You tell me who has more experience with wvw's lulz.

Lets debunk some things here WvW has ques on maybe 3-4 servers in all of NA and thats only during the primetime and maybe the top 3 servers hold ques all week once again only during primetime. Anet recently lowered the map caps to what 50-70 players on the BL's Maybe 100 on EB?  Where are all these players you speak of? Lets do some real fun math

being nice lets say 6 servers take wvw seriously which its prolly only 3 but hey im being nice. lets say 500 people per server for alls bls and EB?? being nice again. thats only 3k players doing wvw every night buddie in all of NA.

If i were to ask you tho 100k people are wvwing....lol.

I guess we prolly have a bit of a different definition when it comes to what is considered successful.

Also culling will never be fixed period never happening plz stop they have even admitted to as much themselves...I wish I could find the quote but it was awhile ago.

I'd be more impressed with 40k wvw kills if you had played on the bottom rated server since launch ....the fact you have been on nearly every #1 servers since launch is not something I'd be proud of ...in fact it leaves a stigma about your wvw skills and actually taints the value of the entire post .

Originally posted by xArsonistx

such a trash game....

- Continual work to re-build the way our game loads models and compresses data, to allow for more visible characters/names in WvW in the long run as we build towards removing as much culling as possible from the game.

God, I never played a game in which enemys and mobs disappear or don't even render right in front of you. I really just can't wrap my head around this game even making it out of beta just fuckin mind boggling. I have so much hate torwards this game because of culling. Wish I could get my money back. Guess I should look into selling my account.

I never played war or swtor so I didnt know what culling was. Now I know tho and I will never play a game with such a trash feature ever again.

Every game has culling in some form. You can't place 500 people in one area without it. Yes, even WoW has a culling feature. The difference is how it's implemented, and it depends on the number of people.

For small numbers, it's not an issue. 

For medium size numbers, generally games load in a low-resolution model in place of your actual character model, while waiting for the higher res model to be be able to render. This is what GW2 has now.

For extremely large quantities of players (most games don't have to worry about this), not even the low res solution works that well. 

You forget, not many games have to be prepared for 500 people being in exactly one area at the exact same time.  But culling is always there, in every online game. It's put in place so people the clients don't crash trying to load 500 character models. Only so much data can be transfered over the network at once. 

Originally posted by jpnz

Negative light?

So, if a company says 'We will do X by Y' and fails to do so, you want to spin that in a POSITIVE light?

If a company fails to do what they said they will, I would suspect a reasonable person would understand that a customer might be upset. Just maybe? You know?

Jeez, this isn't rocket science. /facepalm

I will be upset if they postpone it for another 6 months.

Overreacting much?

Originally posted by MindTrigger

For me, the main issue is the same one Planetside 2 suffers from.  The entire WvW game is a giant circle-jerk.  Zerg here, Zerg there, rinse, repeat.  

What both of these games need is open land with player-built bases and objectives.  I know this is something SOE wants to eventually do with PS2, but we'll have to see if they follow through.

Well, the thing is its fast paced and you can jump in and out at a whim.

OTOH you have game like EvE (great game) which you need to invest half of your life and have superior organisation which is awesomely hardcore.

Anyway, from time to time theres some awesome gameplay in GW2 like 4 hour keep sieges where both sides do a lot of crazy stuff to try to capture/defend and its definately worth participating. At other times its just zerg vs. zerg capturing/recapturing ;P

Originally posted by Bad.dog

I'd be more impressed with 40k wvw kills if you had played on the bottom rated server since launch ....the fact you have been on nearly every #1 servers since launch is not something I'd be proud of ...in fact it leaves a stigma about your wvw skills and actually taints the value of the entire post .

He is a prime example of WvWvW bandwagoner feeding of other people efforts. I guess he is upset his "style of play" of jumping servers and leech has been shut down (or cost a lot of gems). Its "style of play" people DONT want on their server and is generaly despised by community.

Anywas....dont feed it ;P

Originally posted by Marcus-

'The devs never communicate with the playerbase!!'

(devs communicate with the playerbase, and give them a guide to future plans)

'The devs said it would be done by (insert date here)  ZomG its not DONE!'

 'They hates (insert playstyle here) us !!!  These guys sux!!'

 

It just never ends.

This is exactly what is going through my mind as I read some of these posts.

Originally posted by NaughtyP
IMO they should have just focused on all the culling problems. If they ever got it 100% functional, I'd come back in a heartbeat. Ah well. Too bad.

The recent patch fixed some of the problems. It's not getting rid of culling persay, but it's more akin to how other games handle large amounts of players. It now loads in low-res player models, instead of just making people invisible. 

Originally posted by Volkon

 

I would think the degree of upset a resonable customer might have would be based with the explanation, though, wouldn't you? If they simply said it wouldn't be ready or were going to leave out things promised that would be one thing. However Colin gives a reasonable and detailed explanation of what's going on. I give credit where I see it due, and if it takes a few more weeks for the polish and shine phase to produce a bug-free release I'm willing to give it those few more weeks. Besides, it's hardly worth wasting the emotion over this... it's a release date for a little more content in a game being pushed out by a few weeks. Those kinds of things hardly draw more than a raised eyebrow... certainly not a notable emotional response. Sandy Brook - emotional response. 9/11 - emotional response. GW2 delays WvW update a few weeks... ok, I'll wait.

Telling the customer 'you shouldn't be upset' in this case is probably not going to be accepted by most people.

If a company doesn't meet a deadline that they themselves set, a 'reasonable person' can accept that a customer might be upset.

That doesn't mean one is upset personally but one can understand those that do. Remind me why anyone should be critical of a negatively slanted post? Sorry, but I am not GW2 PR.

And did you just compare GW2 to 9/11? What...the... ??? /facepalm

Originally posted by jpnz

Telling the customer 'you shouldn't be upset' in this case is probably not going to be accepted by most people.

If a company doesn't meet a deadline that they themselves set, a 'reasonable person' can accept that a customer might be upset.

That doesn't mean one is upset personally but one can understand those that do. Remind me why anyone should be critical of a negatively slanted post? Sorry, but I am not GW2 PR.

 

And did you just compare GW2 to 9/11? What...the... ??? /facepalm

 

You are again overreacting.

Hell, im still waiting for ANY promised features in SWTOR and its been over a year lol. THAT is the thing "customer might be upset about" not few weeks delay lol

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by IPolygon
So many months (since release) without a single content update for WvW and now we see an indefinate push back (again). It's pretty obvious ANet doesn't care for WvW in the least. There is nothing but promises and excuses to keep you entertained until TESO comes out. Hopefully other devs know how to support an RvRvR format

 

I guess in your rush to spew more anti-GW2 venom you failed to actually read the post above by Colin which tells a completely different tale.

Originally posted by IPolygon Oh, you mean we still get expansion worth of content? I don't.

 

Fact 1: There has been no single content update for WvW since release (unlike PvE and sPvP). And no, I don't count breakout events as content.

 

Fact 2: WvW is in a sorry state and ANet doesn't care - obviously.

 

Fact 3: I am sick and tired of ANet tales. They are just that, tales.

There were significant improvements in culling departement. And that matters only in WvWvW. First things first.

Originally posted by mikahr

 

You are again overreacting.

Hell, im still waiting for ANY promised features in SWTOR and its been over a year lol. THAT is the thing "customer might be upset about" not few weeks delay lol

Overreacting implies I am upset at this which if you look at my post isn't.

Is it negative? Sure! Cause a company didn't deliver what they said.

However, that doesn't mean I don't see the logic if people do.

Seriously not understanding why I'm getting shouted at for a negative post. A company didn't do what they said they would do.

Why is anyone having trouble understanding that most reasonable people will not be super-happy about it?

Is it really rocket science? o_O

Sorry, but I don't work for GW2 PR; which probably have their hands anyway ever since an ANet dev used the F word on twitter to GW2 players. And then refused to back down. /facepalm