Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by colddog04

Your perception about his excuses vs your "proof" is strange. You seem completely incapable of looking at facts and and accepting them as facts. Every time you just talk about current populations of WoW and their expansion sales numbers. 

 

Here's a hint. When people talk about "fastest growing," they are not talking about current populations. WoW is actually declining right now. It was up around 12 million a couple of years ago and now it's down around 9 or 10 million. WoW is actually currently DECLINING, not GROWING. And when it first came out, it's growth was slower for the first 5 months than GW2's growth is now.

 

That isn't to say that GW2 will ever grow to 10 millionish, but up till this point, no other MMORPG has grown faster than GW2 during the first 5 months.

Before that, it was TOR, before that it was something else. At WOW's release the market wasn't as well known, it was in fact much smaller, with successful numbers being in the hundreds of thousands rather than millions. SImple fact of the matter is the market has grown and continues to grow with every new release.

There's also the simple fact that games such as WOW have grown old at this point, regardless of expansions. The graphics, the game-play, the presentation etc.. People are moving on to newer games, GW2 being one of them.

Not to take anything away from GW2's success as they have been very successful, I just won't be surprised when the next major release surpasses GW2's initial sales.

It's possible ... even probable... that there will be games surpassing this in the future. I wonder which... maybe TESO if the Elder Scrolls crowd goes for it... Defiance, in my opinion, has the possibility simply due to the fact that I'm seeing ads all over ScyFy for it already (the show the game ties into starts in... March I think?  Right now, these two I think may have a shot... not really following what else is in development.

I don't know if it will be TESO simply because of how much resentment has formed around it's direction, which many view as a departure away from the TES franchise. We'll see though, I too haven't been keeping up with many of the in development MMO's, I know it won't be the repop that does it heh.

'Resentment' is a forum thing, if a game is good people will buy it play it, Youtube to the rescue ultimately.

Originally posted by iamthekiller

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by iamthekiller

Originally posted by Celcius
No one claims that games will "kill WoW"; these are just things people like to say when backing up an ill formed argument about a game not meeting their expectations. I personally think WoW is complete garbage and so is MoP, but hey thats my opinion. Fact is that the game is earning ArenaNet and NC Soft hand over fist and they have sold over 3million copies already, making it the fastest selling MMO to date. Take that for what you will, but I don't really see how anyone with any sense can deny the success of GW2. 

I didn't really mention how well it did do or didn't. I know MOP sold more then 3 million copies in a week though. I think that is probably faster then GW2. Im not knocking people who like the game at all...im not saying it's unsuccessful...it's succesfull for a mediocre game for sure..a real record setter!

An expansion is different then a game release. Saying your MMO sold 3 million copies in a week which was the first time the game did not break a previous record for sales and with an installed user base of 10 million doesn't mean anything. It was not the fastest selling MMO of all time, GW2 was and still is. Nice try though, considering you started your post off by claiming you did not mention how well it did yet still replied to me by claiming GW2's numbers were not as significant as I claim. 

You can't state your opinion as fact and claim I cannot defend your argument with facts. You like WoW and you don't like GW2..who cares. The fact is that GW2 has sold faster then any other MMO does not change. You can claim it is mediocre all you want though. That is your opinion. Unfortunately for you they already got your money so you basically voted for the game being a winner. Thanks for your contribution towards my current and future content patches for the game I enjoy. 

I never once stated my opinion as fact. I actually went out of my way to specifically say it was my opinion and it wasn't popular. Your attitude is quite amusing though, you come in here attacking me because you want to make sure everyone knows GW2 wasn't a failure...but I never said it was..you seem like you know deep down it's mediore but don't want to admit it to yourself.

 

As far as MOP being different because it's an expansion...that's pretty much something you made up to rationalize your viewpoint that GW2 is the fastest selling MMO of all time when it's not. MOP is...you don't get to discount it for subjective reasons. Or can you point me in the direction of the rulebook that defines these things? Did obama sign a executive action declaring expansions for mmo's don't count as mmo release's?

 

All that aside, if you don't care about the topic of my thread why post? Why not just go on with your life? GW2 isn't gonna magically become a good game because your white knighting it.

 

I don't get it why people come to this forums and then look for a subforum of a game they DO NOT LIKE so they can post their opinions about something they don't like...

If there's somehting I don't like, I usually don't waste any more time on it and I move on with my life...

also, by trying to defend your precious WOW with those crap how it's the fastest selling (when it even didn't break a record of previous expansions) and trying to compare a newly released game with an expansion for a game that's practially a relic now is just pathetic... what, you see less and less people in WOW and it starts to itch?

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by Distopia

 

I don't know if it will be TESO simply because of how much resentment has formed around it's direction, which many view as a departure away from the TES franchise. We'll see though, I too haven't been keeping up with many of the in development MMO's, I know it won't be the repop that does it heh.

'Resentment' is a forum thing, if a game is good people will buy it play it, Youtube to the rescue ultimately.

True

At this point should be clear to know that no game will kill WoW, and if you ask me im happy to see that Gw2 its no exception because the so claimed "throne" WoW stands for its something that i will like to remain that way, between many other things because i dont want too see Gw2 ( or any mmo at all ) being converted to the most hated and disputed mmo of all time, its not really worth it if you ask me.

Also Gw2 has lived to its hype for a lot of people and its still kicking ass for much gamers today. Because not all games need all those Millions of people to succeed or even be remembered,

Originally posted by akiira69

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by akiira69

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by akiira69

3 mill is impressive while you have the goliath WOW at 10 Mill? you need your reasoning checked. Untill David(GW2) topples Goliath(which it never will) it will never be the fastest Growing MMO. Oh and justst for the Record the number 1 sales for MMO's for Amazon is Tera.

 

I'm sorry... I seem to have misplaced the data... how quickly did WoW hit 3 million again? Or SWToR? Tera perhaps... when did they hit 3 million?

 

Fastest growing. That means growing (or grew) the fastest.

 

 

Where's that 40K Kills screenshot from WvW by the way? Still waiting to see that...

Wrath of the Lich King sold 2.8 million copies in it's first 24 hours of availability. This makes it the fastest selling computer game of all time, beating the record set by the previous World of Warcraft expansion The Burning Crusade, which sold 2.4 million within its first 24 hours.

Expansion, yes. That's special. How about WoW itself? How long did it take WoW to reach 3 million? An expansion isn't growth. That's selling to the choir, to mutilate a phrase. WoW sold those copies to it's alleged 10 million subscribers, but how long did it take WoW to grow to that 3 million mark originally?

I love this your floundering for excuses every time i prove you wrong.

Where are all the folks that played WOW now?....what’s the excuse for a game that had 12 million subscribers now showing numbers in the 2.5 million range?

Firstly lemme thank you guys for making me lol in class :)

Why is everything always a comparison to WoW? Every mmorpg discussion ultimately bring that game in as the benchmark that a completely different game isnt meeting upto or a similar game is being pitted against, with alot of my observed instances involving the words: "WoW clone!"

A WoW killer - would be a game that drains WoW dry wont it? Makes it so servers merge due to lack of players? Always have diehards so the most forseeable WoW killer is the dev team of WoW.

The facts are - in 5 months GW2 did better than ALL other mmorpgs. They came from a player base of 0 to 3mil. Whereas no-one else did that. Previous posts have clearly made that clear. With that stated, the expansion argument is not a fair assessment, as an expansion means there are a playerbase. I can bring ym friends into a game i play because i like it and if an expansion comes out... it shows the devs are furthering the community and my friends should come in cause this game wont be dying anytime soon - or thats what I say when expansions are out.

iamthekiller you said that you are stating opinion, then let the arguments rest. Your objectivity is compromised because of your bias against GW2. Likewise, fond memories and boredom could have made your return to WoW more enjoyable than it should have (stating possibilities). Point is though that GW2 isnt your kettle of fish, and after your initial post going along with the argument until you lost your point was unnecessary

Going back to the original post - I doubt anything other than boredom, or curiosity about ane xpansion can bring you back to Tyria.

PvE wise, yeah its actually a pretty nice game and they delivered. Graphics and combat were improved upon and they did their own takes here and there.

PvP wise..I believe that it failed to hit the mark and continued to crash into everything. Balance is subjective, promises haven't been kept so far and it can be a bit hectic in the sPvP forums.

Originally posted by fs23otm

GW2 is still the best MMO on the market... and will remain that way until possibly ESO. 

 

not even close. It's only best in some categories : marketing,  monetization and hype

To be honest I wasent even following this game at all so the hype for this game rubbed off on me, I even posted a somewhat hate post back in the beta weekends.

I played the game as you would in any themepark  and didn't knew really what I was doing.

I gave it a second chance and really dove into the game mechanics and got hooked.

I'm still here.

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by fs23otm

GW2 is still the best MMO on the market... and will remain that way until possibly ESO. 

 

not even close. It's only best in some categories : marketing,  monetization and hype

Best game is always a opinion, but on these boards It's more important to write " IMO, or opinion or IMHO" before writing your feelings  or your will get shot down by straw people who loves to point out things like you.

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by fs23otm

GW2 is still the best MMO on the market... and will remain that way until possibly ESO. 

 

not even close. It's only best in some categories : marketing,  monetization and hype

When hater's spend more time and energy posting in GW2 forums then moving on and playing some other MMO I think GW2 wins ,,,perhaps this is both good marketing and hype ?

Originally posted by dimnikar

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by akiira69

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by akiira69

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by akiira69

3 mill is impressive while you have the goliath WOW at 10 Mill? you need your reasoning checked. Untill David(GW2) topples Goliath(which it never will) it will never be the fastest Growing MMO. Oh and justst for the Record the number 1 sales for MMO's for Amazon is Tera.

 

I'm sorry... I seem to have misplaced the data... how quickly did WoW hit 3 million again? Or SWToR? Tera perhaps... when did they hit 3 million?

 

Fastest growing. That means growing (or grew) the fastest.

 

 

Where's that 40K Kills screenshot from WvW by the way? Still waiting to see that...

Wrath of the Lich King sold 2.8 million copies in it's first 24 hours of availability. This makes it the fastest selling computer game of all time, beating the record set by the previous World of Warcraft expansion The Burning Crusade, which sold 2.4 million within its first 24 hours.

Expansion, yes. That's special. How about WoW itself? How long did it take WoW to reach 3 million? An expansion isn't growth. That's selling to the choir, to mutilate a phrase. WoW sold those copies to it's alleged 10 million subscribers, but how long did it take WoW to grow to that 3 million mark originally?

I love this your floundering for excuses every time i prove you wrong.

How did you prove him wrong? GW2 grew to 3+ millions accounts much faster than WoW did back in 2004 at its release. Volkon is actually right, and you are wrong. Part of why you are wrong is that you compare apples and oranges, aka vanilla games and expansions of well established games.

Oh and yes, where's that 40k kills in WvW thingy? Now that it's been mentionned, I'm eager to see it too.

If WoW hadn't created the market for this type of game, GW2 wouldn't sell jack squat.

It's amazing how many of you dare to compare a game releasing today to a game released nearly 10 years ago. Do you even know how much the market grew since then?

Think of it this way: if the market for a product is 10 people and you sell to 3 of those in 2005, but it's 100 people in 2012 and you sell to 5... Which sold faster?

 

Lots of ways to look at this. Only one is correct.

I'd like to also add that WoW also raised the bar so you can also look at it that way as well so numbers that would have seemed like a huge success 10 years ago would be seen as a failure today. You were correct when you stated there were lots of ways to look at it and no, not only one is correct because there are always going to be context.

GW2 would need a complete overhaul for it to become my primary game. Right now that does not look like it will ever happen so long as all these people that think GW2 is a success or is making money now that release has come and gone continue to overhype the game.

World of Warcraft will remain the over all best mmo rpg on the market. MoP at first sounded stupid to me. I logged in anyhow and found out that it was actually great, and I really shouldn't be suprised. As much as people hate on wow as a whole or compares xpacs and says expac y was better than expac z and so on ....... The expacs have all been great and the game continues to be great.

It's really that simple.

It's greatness I would contribute most to it's versitility and ever changing environment.

--- It's missing player created content and housing

--- It's missing dynamic events to some extent. The wpvp in wow is actually a very dynamic event, no it does not offer in game rewards so much, but it does offer very memorable moments in time that Horde and Alliance throw in each others faces in game, on the forums, you tube,  facebook, it's everywhere............ It's the players that make it possible too.

Don't let other people ruin your fun, Wow is still great after all this time and is sitll head and shoulders above the rest. You can look and look and look, but you won't find a better one size fits alll game, it just doesn't exist.

Originally posted by KingofHartz

GW2 would need a complete overhaul for it to become my primary game. Right now that does not look like it will ever happen so long as all these people that think GW2 is a success or is making money now that release has come and gone continue to overhype the game.

 

World of Warcraft will remain the over all best mmo rpg on the market. MoP at first sounded stupid to me. I logged in anyhow and found out that it was actually great, and I really shouldn't be suprised. As much as people hate on wow as a whole or compares xpacs and says expac y was better than expac z and so on ....... The expacs have all been great and the game continues to be great.

It's really that simple.

 

It's greatness I would contribute most to it's versitility and ever changing environment.

--- It's missing player created content and housing

--- It's missing dynamic events to some extent. The wpvp in wow is actually a very dynamic event, no it does not offer in game rewards so much, but it does offer very memorable moments in time that Horde and Alliance throw in each others faces in game, on the forums, you tube,  facebook, it's everywhere............ It's the players that make it possible too.

 

Don't let other people ruin your fun, Wow is still great after all this time and is sitll head and shoulders above the rest. You can look and look and look, but you won't find a better one size fits alll game, it just doesn't exist.

So you want WoW 2.0.

got it.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by KingofHartz

GW2 would need a complete overhaul for it to become my primary game. Right now that does not look like it will ever happen so long as all these people that think GW2 is a success or is making money now that release has come and gone continue to overhype the game.

 

World of Warcraft will remain the over all best mmo rpg on the market. MoP at first sounded stupid to me. I logged in anyhow and found out that it was actually great, and I really shouldn't be suprised. As much as people hate on wow as a whole or compares xpacs and says expac y was better than expac z and so on ....... The expacs have all been great and the game continues to be great.

It's really that simple.

 

It's greatness I would contribute most to it's versitility and ever changing environment.

--- It's missing player created content and housing

--- It's missing dynamic events to some extent. The wpvp in wow is actually a very dynamic event, no it does not offer in game rewards so much, but it does offer very memorable moments in time that Horde and Alliance throw in each others faces in game, on the forums, you tube,  facebook, it's everywhere............ It's the players that make it possible too.

 

Don't let other people ruin your fun, Wow is still great after all this time and is sitll head and shoulders above the rest. You can look and look and look, but you won't find a better one size fits alll game, it just doesn't exist.

 

So you want WoW 2.0.

got it.

That wouldn't be a bad thing at all in the land of Tyria, but all we have now is a massive zerg fest and limited hotbar options. BORRRRRING!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by KingofHartz

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by KingofHartz

GW2 would need a complete overhaul for it to become my primary game. Right now that does not look like it will ever happen so long as all these people that think GW2 is a success or is making money now that release has come and gone continue to overhype the game.

 

World of Warcraft will remain the over all best mmo rpg on the market. MoP at first sounded stupid to me. I logged in anyhow and found out that it was actually great, and I really shouldn't be suprised. As much as people hate on wow as a whole or compares xpacs and says expac y was better than expac z and so on ....... The expacs have all been great and the game continues to be great.

It's really that simple.

 

It's greatness I would contribute most to it's versitility and ever changing environment.

--- It's missing player created content and housing

--- It's missing dynamic events to some extent. The wpvp in wow is actually a very dynamic event, no it does not offer in game rewards so much, but it does offer very memorable moments in time that Horde and Alliance throw in each others faces in game, on the forums, you tube,  facebook, it's everywhere............ It's the players that make it possible too.

 

Don't let other people ruin your fun, Wow is still great after all this time and is sitll head and shoulders above the rest. You can look and look and look, but you won't find a better one size fits alll game, it just doesn't exist.

 

So you want WoW 2.0.

got it.

That wouldn't be a bad thing at all in the land of Tyria, but all we have now is a massive zerg fest and limited hotbar options. BORRRRRING!!!!!!!!

Great to see that you have a game you love, but why post your thoughts here in GW2 forums when you don't want to play GW2 you want to play WoW 2.0?

I was excited had the most fun the first month and a half, then the nerfs to loot and to the engineering class began and it's been nothing but more bugs and disappointments so far. I dunno who took over the wheel post launch but Nov 15th left alot to be desired. They should never have turned 180 from their design plans.

and when it comes to things like DR, why is it companies don't have someone on staff who keeps up with mmo design history and how the playerbase receives those design flaws? DR would have never been implemented if they were really gamers with a knowledge of the history of mmo's because they would have remembered the large number of games that were cancelled because of devs implementing DR and it affecting players not bots.

And don't get me started on the fail design of "dungeon-only focus in a game about DE's" because that's a whole other pile of steaming fail entirely.

Don't misunderstand they had the best design at the beginning, what failed was their management post launch.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Well at the very least the developers don't sound so 'cocky' and 'we know better then you' tone as they did right after launch so I'm guessing (hoping) they were humbled. 

 

As for the game? Eh I'm not the best judge, I feel like its highly over-rated but considering how over he top the fan bois are the 'highly' part would probably not exist if it was another game without such over the top fanbois behind it. Its doing okay I suppose, nothing amazing. In some ways it might hurt since rather then promoting great F2P options a lot of Eastern games have been pushing (Aion or Tera as recent ones) its going to promote more box sales with the same type of cash shop those games have or worst, specially considering Secret world's shift did so good as well.

 

Yeah i know, somewhat off topic but truthfully I just feel the game itself didn't do much of 'changing' anything outside of making more focus on the concept of "B2P with cash shop" which can be a good AND bad thing for the consumer. Good that we don't have to maybe pay for a subscription, but bad that a cash shop will typically rake in a lot more cash from our pockets.

Welp, I thought that the cash shop complaining was done, but I forgot about you.  lol.  There's nothing bad about the cash shop.  You don't need to spend any money for anything outside of the box.  If you're impatient and/or you want to support the company, you can spend money, otherwise there's no reason to break out your wallet to remain competitive or access "hidden" content like practically every DLC based Steam game does these days, but I don't see anyone bickering about.

The cash shop doesn't have a "bad" side.  "Great F2P" options in Tera?  I don't see it.  You have to spend real money... there's no way to earn CS currency in-game like there is in GW2.

How is that "great"?  More to the point, how is it better? 

You're still on your crusade, I see.