Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

Originally posted by dimnikar

I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions.

While it's true -  that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well.

If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.

I think you aren't thinking of this in the right context.

this doesn't seem to be a social family guild where people say "it's ok, we'll get 'er next time..."

It seems like it's a competitive guild.

I've seen competitive amateur sports teams as well as casual friendly teams. Each one has a differebnt set of goals in mind.

I think the responsibility should be up to the person joining. I don't join competitive guilds because I don't want to commit the time and would rather be in a laid back guild where people are just having fun. I can easily see why people join competitive guilds, just like they join competitive sports teams or do anything that has a lot of competition.

I see nothing wrong with people being dedicated competitive players even though it's not my thing.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

Things like that do happen, and it doesnt have to be a life threatening situation, but when things happen and assuming your child was injured seriously enough to need stitches, that is serious enough, then yes, i would leave my place of work to deal with it, not just for things that happen to children either, same if anything happened to my wife and she was taken to hospital, then i would also be there. My work wouldnt do anything about it, and it wouldnt be a good idea for them to either, because if they did, the union would nail them to the wall.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

Obvious there is a matter of degree. However, a job that won't let me go if my kid needs stitches? Thanks but no thanks.

And also quite obvious that i would choose a job that is more family friendly. (Not that i *can* play pro ball anyway).

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

i agree with the hardcore guild position, but this is exactly the point, if my kid is screaming in pain because they stubbed their toe then yes as a parent i should be giving them attention.  I would be a fairly horrific parent if I continued playing my game and ignoring my child, a pretty disgusting human being actually.

  In a professional team you are doing your real life job, thats different.

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

 

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Bladestrom

 

If a guild intends to have 10 people focus for 100% of the time for x hour blocks you as a parent cannot and should not be able to guarantee  that.  When a parent goes afk for 10 minutes that affects 9 other real people.   There is a time when you have to realise you cannot have your cake and eat it.  Seems reasonable at hte very least you should give the guild the option to consider that your children will come first at times.

This applies to moms and dads equally.

 

Don't most guild applications ask for scheduling availablity? Unless someone is actively deceving in the application, this will come up almost for sure.

 

The truth it a lot of people lie on guild applications, especially if your in a decent progression guild. The applicant wants to progess and of course they never consider the other people in the team.

They'll say they have the times free for your raiding but then some issues comes up several weeks in a row and when you finally decide to chop them they kick up a fuss because your not considering their, 'circumstances', and it's only a, 'game'.

It's the same thing with any team sport/hobby.  If you can't make the practice or you keep having other issues in a game, don't expect to make the team.  Your unreliable, you may have a legitimate reason in your eyes but it's simply unfair to anyone else who turned up and is reliable.

Guilds in MMOs relay on people agreeing to a certain playstyle.  It's what you have in common, and you barely know most of these people, so it has to be set in stone as the rules.  I find the biggest problems happen when someone comes into a guild and believes their, 'circumtances', are different due to some RL issue which means their beyond the rules of the guild.

Here is the thing, its not actually as much as having RL come before Gaming, honestly if im part of a group that actually has a schedual and has specific days they do things. i can plan around that, Parents can't plan around anything. Kids don't exactly have off switches without the use of duct tape, and then child serves get involved and it just becomes a headache. Kids have this weird thing they do its called Doing things.

This Doing things involves

Breaking things.

Breaking themselves.

Disappearing randomly.

Wanting attention (the agony).

Wanting Food.

Wanting a Drink.

Etc

All these things can happen at any given time. so attempting to plan to get into something that doesnt involve the kid has a tendency to be troublesome.

So basically i would say to stay away from raiding until they are at the age when they want to ignore you and do their own thing anyways.

This is partly why ive decided to take the No kids Route, i Will not be missing the resulting Weight and Pain either.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

 

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.

 *looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver.  *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by dimnikar

I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions.

While it's true -  that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well.

If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.

I think you aren't thinking of this in the right context.

this doesn't seem to be a social family guild where people say "it's ok, we'll get 'er next time..."

It seems like it's a competitive guild.

I've seen competitive amateur sports teams as well as casual friendly teams. Each one has a differebnt set of goals in mind.

I think the responsibility should be up to the person joining. I don't join competitive guilds because I don't want to commit the time and would rather be in a laid back guild where people are just having fun. I can easily see why people join competitive guilds, just like they join competitive sports teams or do anything that has a lot of competition.

I see nothing wrong with people being dedicated competitive players even though it's not my thing.

I totally think the guild should build itself the way it wants.  However, what was the OPs "hardcore" guild doing recruiting non-hardcore players in the first place?

It sounds like they either billed themselves as something they're not or decided to change focus after establishing themselves.  The responsiblity is shared.  It's the guilds job to filter and vette recruits.  It's a players respnsibility to know what guild they're getting into and be honest.  Any hardcore guild is going to have a site page with an application, interviews, and test runs.  If this guild isn't doing that then they're a bunch of rookies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I'm just saying think about the situation they're in for a bit and that they bill themselves as hardcore.  How the hell do they get into the situation.  I think they certainly shoulder a lot of the blame for being so stupid and letting the problem arise in the first place.  On top of that the title and premise is childish and immature.  As previously pointed out, the gender is irrelevant.

I'm going to go with the poster way above that credits this as a really expert troll thread.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by dimnikar

I haven't read through this entire thread, but just wanted to say how unhealthy is to be in a guild that actually deals with these sorts of questions.

While it's true -  that mom should find a more casual guild - no question, but you all need to take it less seriously as well.

If anything, your relationship qirh your guild mate (the mom) should come before the raid schedule.

I think you aren't thinking of this in the right context.

this doesn't seem to be a social family guild where people say "it's ok, we'll get 'er next time..."

It seems like it's a competitive guild.

I've seen competitive amateur sports teams as well as casual friendly teams. Each one has a differebnt set of goals in mind.

I think the responsibility should be up to the person joining. I don't join competitive guilds because I don't want to commit the time and would rather be in a laid back guild where people are just having fun. I can easily see why people join competitive guilds, just like they join competitive sports teams or do anything that has a lot of competition.

I see nothing wrong with people being dedicated competitive players even though it's not my thing.

I totally think the guild should build itself the way it wants.  However, what was the OPs "hardcore" guild doing recruiting non-hardcore players in the first place?

It sounds like they either billed themselves as something they're not or decided to change focus after establishing themselves.  The responsiblity is shared.  It's the guilds job to filter and vette recruits.  It's a players respnsibility to know what guild they're getting into and be honest.  Any hardcore guild is going to have a site page with an application, interviews, and test runs.  If this guild isn't doing that then they're a bunch of rookies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I'm just saying think about the situation they're in for a bit and that they bill themselves as hardcore.  How the hell do they get into the situation.  I think they certainly shoulder a lot of the blame for being so stupid and letting the problem arise in the first place.  On top of that the title and premise is childish and immature.  As previously pointed out, the gender is irrelevant.

I'm going to go with the poster way above that credits this as a really expert troll thread.

Oh cmon we all know the deal here, a guild advertised as being hardcore, which means x number of nights focused raiding.  The Dad/Mom fills in the application and agrees to the ethe stipulations and that they can commit 100% to the raids, then through family commitments they cant.  Its the player's fault for going for a hardcore guild when they have other commitments.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

 

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.

 *looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver.  *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*

LOL .. but i am sure your wife's voice will can get in. And how about if it is ribeye steak night? (Don't tell my wife i am doing it for the food, and not for her .. heheheheh).

Originally posted by Bladestrom

 

Oh cmon we all know the deal here, a guild advertised as being hardcore, which means x number of nights focused raiding.  The Dad/Mom fills in the application and agrees to the ethe stipulations and that they can commit 100% to the raids, then through family commitments they cant.  Its the player's fault for going for a hardcore guild when they have other commitments.

This problem is not more or less compared to other clubs, and sports team .. there is always the chance of a mismatch.

Just kick the person, or quit when that happens.

Originally posted by Omnifish

Guilds in MMOs relay on people agreeing to a certain playstyle.  It's what you have in common, and you barely know most of these people, so it has to be set in stone as the rules.  I find the biggest problems happen when someone comes into a guild and believes their, 'circumtances', are different due to some RL issue which means their beyond the rules of the guild.

 

I think thats one of my pet peeves about the modern MMO gaming scene today.

People don't see other characters as people.  They see them as tools to be used and discarded as and when needed.  Yet at the same time demand that others see them in a different light.

If you can't give the time then don't group, others may have limited free time too and by dropping group or ruining a raid you may be screwing them over.  If they are happy enough with your restrctions or situations then by all means but if you really want people to consider your feelings consider theirs for even a fraction of a second too.

Very few people would begrudge someone an emergency.  But many things that people do are not emergencies, it's just total lack of consideration for the people the play with.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

 

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.

 *looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver.  *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*

LOL .. but i am sure your wife's voice will can get in. And how about if it is ribeye steak night? (Don't tell my wife i am doing it for the food, and not for her .. heheheheh).

"I'm not feeling that great" = More alone time on the computer... If you can pull it off

"I'm Trying to lose weight" = Clear bullshit never use

"Oh sorry i already ate" = Billboard of "you want me to eat THAT"

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

i agree with the hardcore guild position, but this is exactly the point, if my kid is screaming in pain because they stubbed their toe then yes as a parent i should be giving them attention.  I would be a fairly horrific parent if I continued playing my game and ignoring my child, a pretty disgusting human being actually.

 

  In a professional team you are doing your real life job, thats different.

And thats all fine and dandy.  The problem arises when you expect 19-24 other people who have limited time in their day to pursue the leisure activity of their choice to throw down what they're doing and wait on YOU.

You seem to be a rational and reasonable adult/parent, so i doubt you would join a guild that made it clear upfront that there was a set raiding time and an expectation that barring something major (or what you would consider major) that you be there on time and be focused.  The problem arises when you have people who know full well they have a kid who is going to require borderline constant attention and then bull faced lie to a guild leader saying "ya no problem i can do that" when they in fact cant.

Thats a problem, and it has nothing to do with game vs real life.  It has to do with dignity, decency and principal.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by CalmOceans

You think we're unfair if we deny applicants just on the basis of being a mom with child, companies do this, why can't we?

You can deny applicants for any silly-buggers reason you want to.

Sorry OP, you are required to allow everyone into your guild based on the great international guild law of Oslo 1991...

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, let me ask this question cochise.  Should a player on a college football team immediately leave the field because he found out his wife called him and told him their kid was sick and wanted daddy?

If it is serious enough, yes.

I have pulled out of important meetings before because my son was hurt and needs stitches (not life threatening, but need me nevertheless). Could my wife take care of it? Probably. But why shouldn't i be there?

If anyone dared to question me on this point (and no one did), they could find someone else to do my job.

 

Had you bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that i said barring a life and death situation.

There is a difference between "hey guys i need to drop everything right now for the next 5 min in the middle of this raid because my kid stubbed his toe on the dresser and is acting like he split his head open" vs "my kid just broke his arm and is in the hospital".

And trust me, if you left a professional football team because your kid was getting stitches, you wouldnt need to quit that job because they would fire you.

i agree with the hardcore guild position, but this is exactly the point, if my kid is screaming in pain because they stubbed their toe then yes as a parent i should be giving them attention.  I would be a fairly horrific parent if I continued playing my game and ignoring my child, a pretty disgusting human being actually.

 

  In a professional team you are doing your real life job, thats different.

And thats all fine and dandy.  The problem arises when you expect 19-24 other people who have limited time in their day to pursue the leisure activity of their choice to throw down what they're doing and wait on YOU.

You seem to be a rational and reasonable adult/parent, so i doubt you would join a guild that made it clear upfront that there was a set raiding time and an expectation that barring something major (or what you would consider major) that you be there on time and be focused.  The problem arises when you have people who know full well they have a kid who is going to require borderline constant attention and then bull faced lie to a guild leader saying "ya no problem i can do that" when they in fact cant.

Thats a problem, and it has nothing to do with game vs real life.  It has to do with dignity, decency and principal.

ah you misunderstand me, i was that player in the past, and quiete simply I should accept I cant be in a hardcore raiding guild so i dont let  people down (or join as a casual/backup)

Originally posted by Rayshe

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

 

How are you comparing professional football to a VIDEO GAME!?   If video games are that serious to you.. I feel bad for you.

Right on. Video game is actually pretty low on my priority list. If my wife says "dinner", i drop the group and go.

 *looks at the dinner* Cooked spinach, squash, liver.  *looks at the game and quietly closes the door so the smells can't get in*

LOL .. but i am sure your wife's voice will can get in. And how about if it is ribeye steak night? (Don't tell my wife i am doing it for the food, and not for her .. heheheheh).

 

"I'm not feeling that great" = More alone time on the computer... If you can pull it off

"I'm Trying to lose weight" = Clear bullshit never use

"Oh sorry i already ate" = Billboard of "you want me to eat THAT"

 

LOL .. it is not about whether you can make an excuse, it is about how much you treasure your wife. And for me, even when i want to play a little more, why upset her? It is not worth it.