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MechWarrior Online

MechWarrior Online 

General Discussion  » RP: Summon Bigger Fish and the Godzilla Threshold

19 posts found
  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/01/13 7:06:13 AM#1

Note: This was originally posted on mwomercs.com, where it was promptly hidden in a forum section that no one knew existed and doesn't show up in the list.

 

http://www.simpsoncr...bart-the-mother

...

KENT

Our top story, the population of parasitic tree lizards has exploded, and local citizens couldn't be happier! It seems the rapacious reptiles have developed a taste for the common pigeon, also known as the 'feathered rat', or the 'gutter bird'. For the first time, citizens need not fear harassment by flocks of chattering disease-bags.

Later, Bart receives an award from Mayor Quimby outside the town hall. Several lizards slink past.

QUIMBY

For decimating our pigeon population, and making Springfield a less oppressive place to while away our worthless lives, I present you with this scented candle.

Skinner talks to Lisa.

SKINNER

Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.

LISA

But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

SKINNER

No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

LISA

But aren't the snakes even worse?

SKINNER

Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

LISA

But then we're stuck with gorillas!

SKINNER

No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

 

 

 

 

The game has passed the Godzilla Threshold:

 

http://tvtropes.org/...dzillaThreshold

 

Godzilla Threshold

 

There is wisdom in facing a threat with a proportionate response. Sure, There Is No Kill Like Overkill, but it'll likely cause a lot of avoidable collateral damageand it'll guarantee that tomorrow the next threat is stronger. But there are times when the threat is so great and things have gone so horribly wrong that there is no appropriate response. The situation is so dire that it justifies the use of any and every thing that might solve it, no matter how crazy, nonsensical, or horrific, regardless of cost or collateral damage.

 

Things are at the point where even summoning Godzilla, king of monsters and patron saint of collateral damage, could not possibly make the crisis any worse. The situation has crossed the Godzilla Threshold.

 

 

This is where experience comes in; veteran gamers know that this is where you have to get sneaky. Newbies usually wind up casting Summon Bigger Fish:

 

http://tvtropes.org/...ummonBiggerFish

 

Summon Bigger Fish

 

Of course there is Always a Bigger Fish, but sometimes they aren't willing to just pop up out of nowhere and get you out of the current mess. That's where this trope comes in. Summon Bigger Fish is when you get another monster/god/whatever to fight the current one, and hope once the smoke is cleared the one you just called will leave you alone, or at least be weakened enough by the fight to be taken out with less insane tactics. Sadly, the odds that doing this only makes things worse is actually almost 50/50— Evil Is Not a Toy, after all— but then again, once you've crossed the Godzilla Thresholdanything is a viable option.

 

 

This had been escalating prior to the existence of ECM, certainly, but that is when it passed the Godzilla Threshold.

 

There is a reason these are called, "tropes;" they are the stereotypical common mistakes that lead to situational comedy. Is this supposed to be the first Massively-Multiplayer Online Sit-Com?

 

This is why no one agrees on what they think should be fixed, but everyone thinks it's broken, now.

 

 

Posted Image

 

*The best part is that it explains the existence of Jar-Jar Binks and Queen Amidala as due to being forced to roleplay with an 8-year-old girl

 

 

The problem is that it inevitably leads to...

 

Posted Image

 

 

P.S. The devs at Piranha know about this; they have to. Unless someone wants to argue that they haven't been on the Internet or watched TV in 20 years, in which case, WTF are they doing making a video game?! And why would they have hidden the thread, otherwise? They know it, they just don't want to do anything about it.

 

P.S.S. It just occurred to me that MWO could also be explained by PGI being forced to play with 8-year-old girls (and apparently forced to alter the game to her whims, too).

  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/03/13 9:26:33 PM#2

This was basically my reaction to MechWarrior Online.

 

 

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/04/13 6:57:54 AM#3
Nice; understated, reasoned, thoughtful. I like it :)
  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/06/13 8:49:20 AM#4
Originally posted by codejack
Nice; understated, reasoned, thoughtful. I like it :)

I try.

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/06/13 10:59:45 AM#5
Originally posted by Dunedainn
Originally posted by codejack
Nice; understated, reasoned, thoughtful. I like it :)

I try.

 

Now, Ghost Bear's Legacy, that was a game; if someone would update the graphics on that game (and maybe expand it a little... :)) I would shell out serious money for it.

 

MWO is defecating on the franchise.

  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/06/13 11:43:04 AM#6
Originally posted by codejack
Originally posted by Dunedainn
Originally posted by codejack
Nice; understated, reasoned, thoughtful. I like it :)

I try.

 

Now, Ghost Bear's Legacy, that was a game; if someone would update the graphics on that game (and maybe expand it a little... :)) I would shell out serious money for it.

 

MWO is defecating on the franchise.

GBL is what introduced me to BattleTech as a whole when I was a kid. To see the Jihad Era, "Dork Age", and now this stupid game used to redefine the franchise ('fundamentally transform' it, if you will) makes me sick to my stomach. Is there nothing that the "powers that be" won't hurl at BattleTech in an effort to destroy it?

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

2/06/13 11:57:27 AM#7

I am sooo glad I got my founder's package refunded... the game is a mess.

Edit: And I thought I was the only one who used Nostalgia Critic clips from time to time!

  User Deleted
2/06/13 11:58:45 AM#8
Originally posted by Rednecksith

I am sooo glad I got my founder's package refunded... the game is a mess.

Edit: And I thought I was the only one who used Nostalgia Critic clips from time to time!

I wish......

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1997

2/06/13 12:03:41 PM#9
I am still trying to figure out what the OP is trying to say...

But it is ok, not everybody can make a splash on the internet.

 

 

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/06/13 12:33:25 PM#10
Originally posted by tawess
I am still trying to figure out what the OP is trying to say...

But it is ok, not everybody can make a splash on the internet.

 

That's OK, we won't hold it against you.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1997

2/06/13 4:16:04 PM#11

I'd like to see you try. I really do.

 

Still i am very curious as to what your original point was. I guess it have something to do with ECM in one way or the other. That is after all what it usually is.

 

 

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/06/13 4:53:11 PM#12

Not so much about ECM in particular as about how PGI keeps over-correcting; they screwed up armor, so they changed the weapon specs, which wound up making missiles too powerful, so they implemented ECM, which didn't fix the problem but causes all sorts of other headaches, and now we are getting new changes in response to ECM that, again, don't actually do anything about ECM but break other things.

 

And all the while the netcode/lagshield is as bad as ever, there is only one game mode and four maps, the game still crashes, missiles still go through stuff and hit you, don't even get me started on the heat mechanic.... why is no one working on these problems, but they have plenty of people to put out new hero mechs, change the IFF colors (which make friendlies almost impossible to see), and play with the interface?

 

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they are just milking it for whatever they can make before ditching the whole enterprise when their sheer inability to produce a finished product becomes apparent, which is fine with me as that might let someone else make a Mechwarrior game, and maybe they can do it right.

  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/06/13 10:52:30 PM#13
Originally posted by codejack

Not so much about ECM in particular as about how PGI keeps over-correcting; they screwed up armor, so they changed the weapon specs, which wound up making missiles too powerful, so they implemented ECM, which didn't fix the problem but causes all sorts of other headaches, and now we are getting new changes in response to ECM that, again, don't actually do anything about ECM but break other things.

 

And all the while the netcode/lagshield is as bad as ever, there is only one game mode and four maps, the game still crashes, missiles still go through stuff and hit you, don't even get me started on the heat mechanic.... why is no one working on these problems, but they have plenty of people to put out new hero mechs, change the IFF colors (which make friendlies almost impossible to see), and play with the interface?

 

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they are just milking it for whatever they can make before ditching the whole enterprise when their sheer inability to produce a finished product becomes apparent, which is fine with me as that might let someone else make a Mechwarrior game, and maybe they can do it right.

That, and underpowered SRMs, horrible visibility (and nobody give me crap about it being a simulator with 'realistic' cockpit views. That's just Piranha's excuse to sell useless cockpit bling. Even in the fiction MechWarriors have a 360 degree view of their surroundings), sluggish torso twist rates that make most 'Mechs-particularly the Hunchback, which is supposed to be an infighter-useless in close combat, a terrible grind, and just general clunkiness. Oh yeah, and the whole free-to-play mechanic. I can't wait for that trend to die along with 3D movies.

As to making a new MechWarrior game, I'd love to see it. But who could pull it off? Obviously Piranha is incapable of competently doing so, as we have all seen. Activision published MechWarrior 2, but they're...less than scrupulous now. Microprose, publisher of MechWarrior 3, is gone. You can't give it to Ubisoft because they'll find a way to screw it up somehow (probably DRM; just look at Silent Hunter 5). And don't even THINK about EA. Who would back an admittedly niche game like a MechWarrior 5?

  Thorqemada

Elite Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1208

2/07/13 4:48:35 PM#14

SRM underpowered?
Seriously NO - SRM are one of the most devastating weapons in the game!
Up to 90 points of damage depending in the Mech and Setup obliterate the enemy.

Slow Torsotwist rate?
Put an appropriate Engine into your Mech and make a 360° turn in 1 second and twist your Toro and Arms from one side to the oppsite in a similar time.

Really - these Mechs be 25 to 100 tons, if anything they are much to agile!

The Vision is excellent - learn to use 1 of 3 Modes as there is allways one that fits the situation ("Heat Vision" is exceptional good for spotting enemys).

State Rewind is incoming and will fix the ping problematic.

The performance makes leaps forward with new drivers and game optimizing.

ECM is crap - everybody but one at PGI knows that - though it does not matter much as people tend to use direct fire no lock weapons anyway.

The new End of Round Screen is implemented, several weapons got more balance - the game gets better!

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
The Very Model of a Modern Major General (Grievous): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoiQw7kPqf8

  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/08/13 12:08:56 AM#15
Originally posted by Thorqemada

SRM underpowered?
Seriously NO - SRM are one of the most devastating weapons in the game!
Up to 90 points of damage depending in the Mech and Setup obliterate the enemy.

 

Really - these Mechs be 25 to 100 tons, if anything they are much to agile!

The Vision is excellent - learn to use 1 of 3 Modes as there is allways one that fits the situation ("Heat Vision" is exceptional good for spotting enemys).

State Rewind is incoming and will fix the ping problematic.

The performance makes leaps forward with new drivers and game optimizing.

ECM is crap - everybody but one at PGI knows that - though it does not matter much as people tend to use direct fire no lock weapons anyway.

The new End of Round Screen is implemented, several weapons got more balance - the game gets better!

SRMs underpowered? Seriously YES. Tell my Hunchback SRM setup that does absolutely nothing and is the absolute biggest waste of time I have ever had the misfortune of trying to get to work that its Artemis-equipped SRM-6s are "the most devastating weapons in the game". Apparently it didn't get the memo.

The vision is not excellent. No. It is not. Read the fiction and you will come to realize this. When modern tank crews have better visibility than MechWarriors a MILLENIUM in the future, something is terribly, terribly wrong with your game.

I did not have to sacrifice precious tonnage and criticals upgrading my power plant so I could effectively use the weapons my 'Mech was designed to use at the ranges at which it was intended to use them in the previous MechWarrior titles. I should not have to here.

As for 'Mech agility...read the fiction. No, they aren't Gundam-esque, cartwheeling (okay, maybe in that one Dork Age novel, but that doesn't count) monstrosities that flaunt every single Newtonian law, but they aren't...this.

ECM speaks for itself and operates totally differently than in the fiction or previous MechWarrior titles and basically gives the operator a free LRM shield.

Honestly, one should be given a mandatory quiz on the fluff-both technology and universe lore-before one is allowed to download the client for this game and create an account, much less be a member of the development team.

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/08/13 7:13:40 AM#16
Originally posted by Dunedainn
Originally posted by Thorqemada

SRM underpowered?
Seriously NO - SRM are one of the most devastating weapons in the game!
Up to 90 points of damage depending in the Mech and Setup obliterate the enemy.

 

Really - these Mechs be 25 to 100 tons, if anything they are much to agile!

The Vision is excellent - learn to use 1 of 3 Modes as there is allways one that fits the situation ("Heat Vision" is exceptional good for spotting enemys).

State Rewind is incoming and will fix the ping problematic.

The performance makes leaps forward with new drivers and game optimizing.

ECM is crap - everybody but one at PGI knows that - though it does not matter much as people tend to use direct fire no lock weapons anyway.

The new End of Round Screen is implemented, several weapons got more balance - the game gets better!

SRMs underpowered? Seriously YES. Tell my Hunchback SRM setup that does absolutely nothing and is the absolute biggest waste of time I have ever had the misfortune of trying to get to work that its Artemis-equipped SRM-6s are "the most devastating weapons in the game". Apparently it didn't get the memo.

The vision is not excellent. No. It is not. Read the fiction and you will come to realize this. When modern tank crews have better visibility than MechWarriors a MILLENIUM in the future, something is terribly, terribly wrong with your game.

I did not have to sacrifice precious tonnage and criticals upgrading my power plant so I could effectively use the weapons my 'Mech was designed to use at the ranges at which it was intended to use them in the previous MechWarrior titles. I should not have to here.

As for 'Mech agility...read the fiction. No, they aren't Gundam-esque, cartwheeling (okay, maybe in that one Dork Age novel, but that doesn't count) monstrosities that flaunt every single Newtonian law, but they aren't...this.

ECM speaks for itself and operates totally differently than in the fiction or previous MechWarrior titles and basically gives the operator a free LRM shield.

Honestly, one should be given a mandatory quiz on the fluff-both technology and universe lore-before one is allowed to download the client for this game and create an account, much less be a member of the development team.

 

Ah, well, to be fair, Artemis doesn't do much for SRMs unless you have 5 or 6 of them; that's the rub, only about 4 chassis' in the game can properly make use of them.

The vision... meh, if it were better, it would turn into a sniper-fest, and that would be as boring as the super-ECM brawlfest it is now.

Some of the previous MW games were more involved than others; I know for a fact that at least one of them made provision for XL engines, and all of them let you balance speed, armor, and firepower.

I think the agility issue would be mostly fixed by adding directional jump-jet keys and mechanics; let you use them just to shoot forward, sideways, or backwards, turn in midair, etc. That's what they were for, not pretending to be a piece of toast.

ECM is just stupid broken in MWO. I suggested that missile tracking be turned way down, NARC, TAG, and Artemis all make tracking better, and ECM only counters NARC, Artemis and BAP, but the devs apparently have a hard-on for this selectively jamming cloaking device and don't seem to have the foggiest clue how badly it is fucking up the game.

 

Personally, I think that the entire dev team (other than the art department!) should be fired and blacklisted from ever again working in any job related to programming, gaming, or higher brain function.

  Thorqemada

Elite Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1208

2/09/13 4:23:12 AM#17


Originally posted by Dunedainn

Originally posted by Thorqemada SRM underpowered? Seriously NO - SRM are one of the most devastating weapons in the game! Up to 90 points of damage depending in the Mech and Setup obliterate the enemy.   Really - these Mechs be 25 to 100 tons, if anything they are much to agile! The Vision is excellent - learn to use 1 of 3 Modes as there is allways one that fits the situation ("Heat Vision" is exceptional good for spotting enemys). State Rewind is incoming and will fix the ping problematic. The performance makes leaps forward with new drivers and game optimizing. ECM is crap - everybody but one at PGI knows that - though it does not matter much as people tend to use direct fire no lock weapons anyway. The new End of Round Screen is implemented, several weapons got more balance - the game gets better!
SRMs underpowered? Seriously YES. Tell my Hunchback SRM setup that does absolutely nothing and is the absolute biggest waste of time I have ever had the misfortune of trying to get to work that its Artemis-equipped SRM-6s are "the most devastating weapons in the game". Apparently it didn't get the memo.

The vision is not excellent. No. It is not. Read the fiction and you will come to realize this. When modern tank crews have better visibility than MechWarriors a MILLENIUM in the future, something is terribly, terribly wrong with your game.

I did not have to sacrifice precious tonnage and criticals upgrading my power plant so I could effectively use the weapons my 'Mech was designed to use at the ranges at which it was intended to use them in the previous MechWarrior titles. I should not have to here.

As for 'Mech agility...read the fiction. No, they aren't Gundam-esque, cartwheeling (okay, maybe in that one Dork Age novel, but that doesn't count) monstrosities that flaunt every single Newtonian law, but they aren't...this.

ECM speaks for itself and operates totally differently than in the fiction or previous MechWarrior titles and basically gives the operator a free LRM shield.

Honestly, one should be given a mandatory quiz on the fluff-both technology and universe lore-before one is allowed to download the client for this game and create an account, much less be a member of the development team.


We have different oppinions about SRM and Vision - i am with you that the Mechs be to much Gundam agile and that ECM is crap.

The Hunchback (the Dual SRM6 model) is one of the best Medium Mechs ingame.
You can mount 4 to 5 Medium Lasers + 2xSRM6 which gives your a whopping 55 points of damage Alphastrike which seriously damages anything in front of you.
As a Medium you cant be the tank you be the backstabber, you look for oportunitys and pick your fight - let the big guys in your team take the hurt for you.
SRM4 deliver a more tight punch for less heat but need more aim.

With heat vision you can see at 3 maps of 4 the most far mechs in your field of view in bright blue colours against a dark blue background.
You overcome snow and rain and fog and night time with it so good its almost cheating so OP is it.

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
The Very Model of a Modern Major General (Grievous): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoiQw7kPqf8

  Dunedainn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 6

2/09/13 10:02:28 PM#18
Originally posted by Thorqemada

We have different oppinions about SRM and Vision - i am with you that the Mechs be to much Gundam agile and that ECM is crap.

The Hunchback (the Dual SRM6 model) is one of the best Medium Mechs ingame.
You can mount 4 to 5 Medium Lasers + 2xSRM6 which gives your a whopping 55 points of damage Alphastrike which seriously damages anything in front of you.
As a Medium you cant be the tank you be the backstabber, you look for oportunitys and pick your fight - let the big guys in your team take the hurt for you.
SRM4 deliver a more tight punch for less heat but need more aim.

With heat vision you can see at 3 maps of 4 the most far mechs in your field of view in bright blue colours against a dark blue background.
You overcome snow and rain and fog and night time with it so good its almost cheating so OP is it.

Again, tell that to my Hunchback. Apparently it didn't get the memo as it does no such damage.

'Mechs are not agile enough. Turning rates and torso twist rates need to be higher as they were in MW2 and 3, the closest things to tabletop we have so far. For something that's being stabilized by my brainwaves, through a neurohelmet, a BattleMech in MWO is far more sluggish than it should by rights be.

Heat vision is still limited by the absolutely oppressive cockpit views that MechWarriors in the fiction are not hindered by as they have a digital 360-degree view of their surroundings. Thus they do not easily get hung up on buildings or other obstructions they cannot see, nor can players in MW2 and 3 or even 4 with the myriad oddities of its physics engine. Such is not the case in MWO. If Piranha truly cared about staying true to the source material (as they claim) they would rectify this issue by allowing the same third-person views that every previous title incorporated, which would not sacrifice any sort of  faithfulness to canon as it would not really allow you to see anything a canon MechWarrior cannot with his/her 360-degree view, apart from their own 'Mech of course.

All of this matters not, however, as I have uninstalled this pathetic excuse for a MechWarrior game and have no plans to reinstall it in the foreseeable future. I can thank my lucky stars that I managed to resist the temptation and didn't go out and buy a founder's package or whatever they called it before I even tried this game. What a waste of money that would have been. I just wish there was a way for Piranha to refund me my time and emotional distress at seeing the BattleTech franchise further brought low by corporate idiocy and a general unwillingness on the part of the development team to read a blasted book.

I'll be sticking to the Classics on my old XP laptop, thank you very much.

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

 
OP  2/15/13 10:18:47 AM#19
Originally posted by Dunedainn

All of this matters not, however, as I have uninstalled this pathetic excuse for a MechWarrior game and have no plans to reinstall it in the foreseeable future. I can thank my lucky stars that I managed to resist the temptation and didn't go out and buy a founder's package or whatever they called it before I even tried this game. What a waste of money that would have been. I just wish there was a way for Piranha to refund me my time and emotional distress at seeing the BattleTech franchise further brought low by corporate idiocy and a general unwillingness on the part of the development team to read a blasted book.

 

Same here; the game just isn't fun the way it is, the devs and mods are some of the rudest people it has ever been my misfortune to encounter, and they have plainly stated that they consider everything to be fine after listing a set of issues that bear exactly ZERO relation to the problems that their players are actually having and complaining about.

 

These people should never be allowed to have jobs in this industry again.