Originally posted by Maelwydd

lol any of you guys with daggers out for Mark Jacobs like to point at the doll and show me where the bad man touched you....

 

I find it funny people are bigging up Matt Firor for his involvement in TESO but putting down Mark Jacobs here when it was Mark that designed DAOC and Matt was the producer. I obviously am missing something...

Good thing I respect both of these men, even if we don't always see eye to eye :) They are truly talented people, both of them, so no need for all you guys to draw knives like Mael said.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

lol any of you guys with daggers out for Mark Jacobs like to point at the doll and show me where the bad man touched you....

 

I find it funny people are bigging up Matt Firor for his involvement in TESO but putting down Mark Jacobs here when it was Mark that designed DAOC and Matt was the producer. I obviously am missing something...

Jacobs was Executive producer in DAoC at its launch... Firor was producer. Then Jacobs moved (after failing hard with Trials of Atlantis and major overhaul trying to go after WoW) from DAoC and Firor became Executive producer during Catacombs and after in Labyrith of the Minotaur. See a pattern?

And btw... Jacobs cant "design" a straight like if you ask him to. Btw... hes a lawyer, lawyers just dont "design". They "bend" and "distort"... some do it well and are praised for it, and I respect those. Mark... well... hes just the "80s car salesman" of the Video Game Industry.

Put it simple: He acts, talks and brags like a con man. Which he is. You just cant trust Mark "1word1lie" Jacobs

I have yet to put faith in Kickstarted MMOs. As of yet, none have proven they have what it takes to make it. I hope they do but without the backing of a company thats fully funded, Im not sure how well they will do. I will say I am sick of companies like EA but proof so far is in the pudding. I am looking info ESO but there is not enough info out yet on both games to say who will be better. 

Originally posted by Maelwydd
Sure about all that Crazy? I know wiki isn't the best resource but it seems like Matt was Exec producer for TOA while Mark was Lead design for TOA. If TOA is the problem shouldn't both of them be a target? Again, i don't really undestand where the problem lies but the anger I find odd and kind of psycho!

Most of the resentment for Jacobs comes from his handling of WAR and his actions during his departure from the company.

DAOC is not likely to ever happen again, and expecting either of the titles to be DAOC 2 will result in a lot of crushed hopes and expectations and gnashing of teeth.

Better to look forward to the new challenges and fun they are likely to bring to the table, and leave off with the comparisons of the past.

Originally posted by Kyleran

DAOC is not likely to ever happen again, and expecting either of the titles to be DAOC 2 will result in a lot of crushed hopes and expectations and gnashing of teeth.

Which is the same description, when you come right down to it, as opening day for every game that does not attempt to be DAOC2 too.

You might as well enjoy yourself! Go full monty! The Toothfairy is totally real.

Originally posted by Iselin

Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

TESO is the real DAoC  II.

Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

Originally posted by winter Mark Jacobs who IMO destroyed DAoC with TOA. Opinions of course will vary with this but after the whole trails of Atlantis bit I'm less willing to support more of the same only under a different developer.

Matt Firor was part of the design team for TOA too

TOA blame belongs to more than 1 person

http://camelotvault.ign.com/?dir=interviews&content=tofajuly0103

Originally posted by Maelwydd
Sure about all that Crazy? I know wiki isn't the best resource but it seems like Matt was Exec producer for TOA while Mark was Lead design for TOA. If TOA is the problem shouldn't both of them be a target? Again, i don't really undestand where the problem lies but the anger I find odd and kind of psycho!

Of course I'm not sure... lol this is from playing DAoC from beta till Lab. It was how I remember it ... I honestly dont know what the wiki says but will check it out.

He was ceo and Exec Prod as far as I remember... I dont remember him "designing" anything. He pulled and still pulls PR stunts etc, but hes a "chief", I dont remember him as a "hands on" guy in mythic. He was the boss.

Sure he loves to take credit and thinks that "If I create a game I'm a designer", no... you're not. You can create a game and be a writer or an ex army vet... but thats ok, some people are so incompetent that they can only be in a place of leadership - its just how this world works - if says hes a designer then by all means, hes a designer - dont go talk to him about meshes or uvw mapping tho, he does PR. He LAWVES ZEE CAMERAS BABEY JA? He actually reminds me of "Galaxia" of "Anger Management" a bit btw...

EDIT: Btw... in wiki, least jacob's (may as well be edited by himself lol... ) it says he was "lead designer"... so which wiki says he wasnt? I doubt any wiki would say he wasnt a "lead designer" his ego alone will be enough to give him a heart attack if he sees something like that...

The more RVR driven games are out, the happier I'am! For there is a good chance that at least one of them could be fun and worth to play for some years!

Originally posted by morbuskabis

The more RVR driven games are out, the happier I'am! For there is a good chance that at least one of them could be fun and worth to play for some years!

Zod Agrees, one is bound to be of decent quality.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Iselin

Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

TESO is the real DAoC  II.

Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

And thank god for that. There's a lot of MMO stuff that didn't exist in 2001 that exists now. A lot of those were not even seen first in WOW although they are all called "WOW-like" now, especially by the retro "back to the MMO roots" crowd. I'm very happy they haven't jumped on that trendy bus where more pain and inconvenience is somehow better.

Instancing is the opposite of 1 fps lag fests (in games with anything above 1980 pong graphics) when RvR really gets cooking...did that in DAoC. You have a better idea that doesn't require desktop supercomputers and infinite bandwidth technologies not yet invented?

Phasing in a megaserver structure is what they call "servers" in a  traditional MMO with the added advantage of "server to server" instant mobility and no need to merge when the population stabilizes. 

WOW and many games that came after have advanced the genre in many ways. The essential elements that define the game are what make it--not the technical bs that so many here like to disect and whine about.

The essential WOW is a not-too-serious cartoonish PVE game with horrible PVP scenario and open world ganking shit tacked on as an afterthought. TESO is a full-fledged persistent RvR game from the ground up with PVE segregated the way that DAoC did it. Those are the important bits. Not the AH, balloon rides, dragon mounts or whatever they decide to use as a way of getting you there from here faster than you can jog

The MMOs for masochists where missing features ARE the feature, are thataway with all the other self-declared sandboxes... mostly in kickstarter semi-scams but there are a couple you can actually play today with the 17 other people that play them. Oh yeah, most of them disdain all the same things you mentioned.

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Iselin

Seems a bit late to me. Jacobs had his chance and decided to do Warhammer Online instead, a game that felt nothing like DAoC. He went 2-sided with symetrical classes and umpteen underpopulated RvR "lakes" all over the place.

Now that TESO is well underway with major money (and no need for panhadling funding) and looks like the real DAOC II he sees the error of his ways and wants to do the real DAoC II? When he still had DAoC to direct he decided to change it intead of enhancing it... and killed it in the process.

I'm extremely skeptical about Camelot Unchained amounting to much... TESO, otoh, is well underway.

TESO is the real DAoC  II.

Except that TESO has heavy WoW influences, instancing, phasing, no death penalty, megaservers, none of which existed in DAoC. 

And thank god for that. There's a lot of MMO stuff that didn't exist in 2001 that exists now.

Instancing is the opposite of 1 fps lag fests (in games with anything above 1980 pong graphics) when RvR really gets cooking...did that in DAoC. You have a better idea that doesn't require desktop supercomputers and infinite bandwidth technologies not yet invented?

A team of 17 developers in Greece made an MMORPG engine that supports hundreds of players in real time twitch based battles with no zones, loading, instancing, phasing, none of it.

Are you telling me a studio with hundreds of devs and millions of investment money can't do better?

Instancing has fuck all to do with performance, stop being ignorant. Some of us like our MMOs to be multiplayer.