Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
A lot of players here especially those who are obsessed with SWTOR have been hoping for the game to die since release.

It was not a good idea to completely screw the Ex-SWG players and give us NOTHING, not even remotely throw us a bone. BW pretended that SWG never existed. BIG mistake. MAJOR mistake.

That, and no space combat, no chat bubbles, no sitting in chairs, no day/night changes, no customizable ships or houses, no alternative leveling zones, dumbed down useless crafting... whole static planets locked into level ranges. Simply bad and incomplete game design in all corners.

I know that a lot of ex-SWG players bemoan either that EA had SWG shut down; or that ToR is nothing like SWG. Also, many SWTOR enthusiasts like to blame a lot of bad press on angry ex-SWG vets.

But to be honest, Bioware was looking to WoW's millions, not the 300,000 ex-SWG players, or the 10,000 active players at the game's close.

Neither was SWG a concern to Bioware, nor was there a vast ex-SWG plot to destroy SWTOR.

To a large extent these forums can be an echo chamber and not represenative of demographics outside of MMORPG.

I only say this to hope to prevent certain conflations. (Although i doubt it will help.)

Originally posted by tiefighter25

ToR is nothing like SWG.

And the two main reasons are

1. Voiceovers =/= Gameplay

2. Gameplay > Voiceovers

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
A lot of players here especially those who are obsessed with SWTOR have been hoping for the game to die since release.

It was not a good idea to completely screw the Ex-SWG players and give us NOTHING, not even remotely throw us a bone. BW pretended that SWG never existed. BIG mistake. MAJOR mistake.

That, and no space combat, no chat bubbles, no sitting in chairs, no day/night changes, no customizable ships or houses, no alternative leveling zones, dumbed down useless crafting... whole static planets locked into level ranges. Simply bad and incomplete game design in all corners.

I didn't know Bioware owed it to SWG fans to give them something? SWTOR is not even on same level of SWG game design.  And they were open about it from day one.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
A lot of players here especially those who are obsessed with SWTOR have been hoping for the game to die since release.

It was not a good idea to completely screw the Ex-SWG players and give us NOTHING, not even remotely throw us a bone. BW pretended that SWG never existed. BIG mistake. MAJOR mistake.

That, and no space combat, no chat bubbles, no sitting in chairs, no day/night changes, no customizable ships or houses, no alternative leveling zones, dumbed down useless crafting... whole static planets locked into level ranges. Simply bad and incomplete game design in all corners.

I didn't know Bioware owed it to SWG fans to give them something? SWTOR is not even on same level of SWG game design.  And they were open about it from day one.

I don't understand that mentality either. If anyone has an issue with SWG shutting down they need to direct their anger at SOE.It was their handling of the game that caused the massive exit of players that eventuallly led to the game being shut down.  Bioware doesn't owe anything to the fans of SWG. 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
A lot of players here especially those who are obsessed with SWTOR have been hoping for the game to die since release.

It was not a good idea to completely screw the Ex-SWG players and give us NOTHING, not even remotely throw us a bone. BW pretended that SWG never existed. BIG mistake. MAJOR mistake.

That, and no space combat, no chat bubbles, no sitting in chairs, no day/night changes, no customizable ships or houses, no alternative leveling zones, dumbed down useless crafting... whole static planets locked into level ranges. Simply bad and incomplete game design in all corners.

I didn't know Bioware owed it to SWG fans to give them something? SWTOR is not even on same level of SWG game design.  And they were open about it from day one.

I don't understand that mentality either. If anyone has an issue with SWG shutting down they need to direct their anger at SOE.It was their handling of the game that caused the massive exit of players that eventuallly led to the game being shut down.  Bioware doesn't owe anything to the fans of SWG. 

I think some folks had it in thier mind the reason why swg was closed was due to the fact that LA refused to renew the ip.  A lof of them me included think that Lucas Arts did not want to have two star wars mmo's compeeting with each other.  Quite frankly I don't blame EA I blame Lucas Arts.  

EA owes me nothing,  however I think they owe the folks who are still playing a better game than what they have to live with currently. 

Yep, definitely LA - but I guess bashing the MMO is easier than hating on the company.

Lets not forget how they also forced Obsidian's hand in releasing KOTOR 2 before it was ready, and all the content that had to be cut because of it.

SWTOR is a failure. Just face the truth already.

Should just have made SWG 2 instead. SWG pre cu style with content from CU / NGE.

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

SWTOR is a failure. Just face the truth already.

Should just have made SWG 2 instead. SWG pre cu style with content from CU / NGE.

According to your signature that holds true for every MMO that isn't "SWG pre CU". ;)

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

SWTOR is a failure. Just face the truth already.

Should just have made SWG 2 instead. SWG pre cu style with content from CU / NGE.

This would have been an even worse failure than SWTOR is...

If you want to play SWG so bad then go PLAY it.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Draron
I think everyone's forgetting the population will surely drop after the weeks stretch on from the latest content patch, it's how things work in a themepark game. Nothing different than usual here - when 1.7 launches I'm pretty sure things will be back to how they were before, at least for awhile. So is the circle of life.

I don't think this is lull between patches. I believe you are seeing a large dip in FTP players playing. My guess is that doesn't seem so prevalent to subbers because you probably don't interact much with them in the first place. (Not much warzones, OPs, or even FPs for them.

Just underlining some key words. Whatever the reason is for the lower population servers isn't clear and anyones guess, but I'm still leaning towards more of it as people slacking off until the next content update.

Originally posted by UMADBRO
I tryed to play the game. I bought collectors edition and everything.  Unfortunately when I go to launch the launcher it hangs on "Installing Main Assets" Haven't been able to find an easy fix so gave up. I took it as an omen.

I've had the same thing happen to me when I used the installer on the disc from the Collector's Edition. Did you try downloading the entire game without using the DVD's? It worked for me.

Originally posted by bfpiercelk

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

SWTOR is a failure. Just face the truth already.

Should just have made SWG 2 instead. SWG pre cu style with content from CU / NGE.

 

This would have been an even worse failure than SWTOR is...

If you want to play SWG so bad then go PLAY it.

SWG's live server is dead. lol.

Originally posted by Jonoku

Originally posted by bfpiercelk

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

SWTOR is a failure. Just face the truth already.

Should just have made SWG 2 instead. SWG pre cu style with content from CU / NGE.

 

This would have been an even worse failure than SWTOR is...

If you want to play SWG so bad then go PLAY it.

SWG's live server is dead. lol.

And people say SWTOR is dead. Some things just need to be let go.

Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by grimal

Just rename the title of this thread to "Superniceguy vs Bioware". In fact, he should just rename himself to ANTITOR since he rarely posts about anything else.

 

so,,he is not allowed to write his opinion on a website about mmos,,only TOR Fans can post?

thats the BW way,,and it will hurt them a lot more in the long run

about a year ago:

BIGGEST MMO LAUNCH IN HISTORY

WERE GOING AFTER WOW

THIS WILL SET NEW STANDARDS FOR THE GENRE

it did,,never have so many players dropped a game so fast

they had their three strikes now,,give the IP to another company, so the 2 mio fans can have

a GOOD star wars mmo

or would you have another zombified game like warhammer online?

they came, they launched, and they failed

some things are better in SWTOR, than in ANY other game,,companions, voice overs etc

but most of it is below standard,,or worse

thats one reason for for the strong feelings about SWTOR,,it is attractive, and pulls the player in

but then pushes them back again in the next minute

When his sole contribution to this site is posting messages about how he hates SWTOR, then no, I don't think he should be allowed to post.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by grimal

Just rename the title of this thread to "Superniceguy vs Bioware". In fact, he should just rename himself to ANTITOR since he rarely posts about anything else.

 

so,,he is not allowed to write his opinion on a website about mmos,,only TOR Fans can post?

thats the BW way,,and it will hurt them a lot more in the long run

about a year ago:

BIGGEST MMO LAUNCH IN HISTORY

WERE GOING AFTER WOW

THIS WILL SET NEW STANDARDS FOR THE GENRE

it did,,never have so many players dropped a game so fast

they had their three strikes now,,give the IP to another company, so the 2 mio fans can have

a GOOD star wars mmo

or would you have another zombified game like warhammer online?

they came, they launched, and they failed

some things are better in SWTOR, than in ANY other game,,companions, voice overs etc

but most of it is below standard,,or worse

thats one reason for for the strong feelings about SWTOR,,it is attractive, and pulls the player in

but then pushes them back again in the next minute

When his sole contribution to this site is posting messages about how he hates SWTOR, then no, I don't think he should be allowed to post.

Sadly, most of those posters barely stop just before the land mines that trigger a warning/ban and get away with it. But it's clear to a good majority that read these forums who they are (not calling anyone out in particular).

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by grimal

Just rename the title of this thread to "Superniceguy vs Bioware". In fact, he should just rename himself to ANTITOR since he rarely posts about anything else.

 

so,,he is not allowed to write his opinion on a website about mmos,,only TOR Fans can post?

thats the BW way,,and it will hurt them a lot more in the long run

about a year ago:

BIGGEST MMO LAUNCH IN HISTORY

WERE GOING AFTER WOW

THIS WILL SET NEW STANDARDS FOR THE GENRE

it did,,never have so many players dropped a game so fast

they had their three strikes now,,give the IP to another company, so the 2 mio fans can have

a GOOD star wars mmo

or would you have another zombified game like warhammer online?

they came, they launched, and they failed

some things are better in SWTOR, than in ANY other game,,companions, voice overs etc

but most of it is below standard,,or worse

thats one reason for for the strong feelings about SWTOR,,it is attractive, and pulls the player in

but then pushes them back again in the next minute

When his sole contribution to this site is posting messages about how he hates SWTOR, then no, I don't think he should be allowed to post.

I do not hate SWTOR, and if you think that then you vastly misunderstand me. I am not called superniceguy for the sake of it. I am just frustrated that EA/BW are not doing anything to keep the game going strong. If the game seemed to be doing OK, I would not be here posting. If I hate one MMO it would be WOW, or rather its huge success, as otherwise SWG may not have had the CU or NGE, and SWTOR would not be like what it is, or so many MMOs tried to copy it, but be their own unique style instead

SWTOR is a great game for a few months, but is not one to either love or hate - Buy, play for a few months, then quit or play very casually in F2P as I do. I would like another MMO that keeps me hooked for years, and not even STO can do that but at least they are trying with it and so are other MMOs. I also like playing games on my Xbox but with SWG that kept me to busy from playing them, now with its shut down it has given me time to play them, and in a way I am glad, but Xbox 360 games mostly feel like games, whereas SWG was something more, and SWTOR and other existing / active MMOs feel like games too, and nothing that is that little bit more like SWG was, that made the $15 per month seem worth it.

For SWTOR, I preordered and purchased the Collectors Edition, plus 2 standard editions, plus 2 60 day time cards and built a new PC specially to play it on, and went into F2P with over 3000 cartel coins. I spent a lot on the game alraedy, and I do not plan on giving up on it.

Nothing I have posted says "I hate SWTOR". It just facts. It is fact that the game had 2 million sales and went so low they had to make it F2P. They still kept bringing out updates in 2012, and people still left. It is fact that they have been still living off content that was created a year ago. I have shown that others who pay a sub to the game, see this too, as stated on the official forums to the linked thread in the OP. It is fact that your server has had a drop in players, but yet you claim it has not. Considering the game has not been improved with F2P, the reason why people left in the first place, was not plugged, so it stands to reason, the same thing will happen again. SWTOR would have had greater chance if they did more for the game before going F2P, or flooded the game with a tonne of content at F2P, and got Makeb in before the end of 2012 and be free, like EA said it would have been. Then they could have taken a break later in 2013 or 2014, as it gives players a bigger carrot to chew on. Delaying content is not wise, as people will just leave and they get less money, and so makes creating more content later harder. The last few months is the best they are going to get.

What I post is things that EA/BW should be doing to keep this game alive.

If you do not want me posting, you definately hate me though. I just post opinions on the game, I do not go bashing others, which seems to be the in thing for fans of the game, who have no facts or decent discussion to refute our comments and so go bashing us instead. I definately do not hate you or others who like the game, and respect you and others who like the game, but just trying to get your head out of the sand and if you can do something about trying to get more people into the game then do it, but I find comments stating there has been no steady drop at all a bit offbeat / unrealistic (when there obviously has been a drop and even other fans said so but only making it out to be temporary, and I could have accepted that last year) - a knee jerk reaction without much thought. If you just wrote "My server is still packed in all areas" then that would have been postitive and accurate, and nothing there for me to comment on. Usually what I write has had plenty of thought put into it.

At the end of the day, I am just grabbing the ugly bull by the horns and dealing with it and not burying my head in the sand, and attempting to get people to see sense and pass the info on to EA/ Bioware. Bioware is not going to do anything when no one gives any feedback, but then people have tried and got banned for it, or it just gets ignored I suppose, but you have to be in it to win it!. Right now it is not too late to try and do stuff to save SWTOR, but leave it another few months, and it could be. If I am right about the game being dead in 12 weeks, and something was done and works then YAY, game saved, if I am wrong, and something is done to save game and works then super YAY, as game gets many more players. Seriosuly I am trying to save SWTOR - putting out comments that hopefully Bioware will pick up on and do it to get more people to the game, and not kill it.

While I see a lot people claiming that this is expected because of content drought, TORStatus tells a different story.  

The Legacy patch was released on 4/12/2012.  The Allies patch was released 6/26/2012.  Terror from Beyond was released 9/26/2012.  After that was HK-51, which launched the date of F2P.

However, exlcuding HK-51, all three of the major release patches show no significant jump in population increase after the release of those patches.  While there was a slight increase, this only lasted a week in some cases.  Beyond that, the 'shiny' effect wore off quite quickly.  

In fact, after the Legacy patch, the spike lasted about 12 days, and then declined below what it was before the patch.  The Allies patch did not show significant improvement or decline, as overall population was already abysmal at this point.  

As many of us watched our guildmembers leave for other things (like Diablo III for example), most of them never came back.  They other stuck with their new game, or moved on to something else while completely ignoring TOR.  

Thousands of players did not come back with the release of new content.  But thousands of players did however leave when a new game, MMO or not, was released.  The only time any server saw a significant spike in activity was after transfers, massive server consolidation, and F2P.  This game will have to continue to merge servers to retain a constant amount of player activity an MMO needs.

Content will keep players playing for longer, but for this game it does not seem to bring them back, no matter what the patch brings (so far).

because the content is more of the same, that actually drove so many away

and bugs are increasing in a steady rate

back in prelaunch,,with the 35 gig client,,i had pretty smooth gameplay,,some bugs, but thats expected at launch

patch 1.4 made the game almost unplayable,,normally mmos  improve stability

this one is actually declining,,i think its the hero engine

hero engine was made for short presentations,,not for running hours and hours,,and not with so many features

at least the STO guys had the guts to try new things,,and they also had the common sense to apologize and

explain, when things borked up

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by grimal

Just rename the title of this thread to "Superniceguy vs Bioware". In fact, he should just rename himself to ANTITOR since he rarely posts about anything else.

 

so,,he is not allowed to write his opinion on a website about mmos,,only TOR Fans can post?

thats the BW way,,and it will hurt them a lot more in the long run

about a year ago:

BIGGEST MMO LAUNCH IN HISTORY

WERE GOING AFTER WOW

THIS WILL SET NEW STANDARDS FOR THE GENRE

it did,,never have so many players dropped a game so fast

they had their three strikes now,,give the IP to another company, so the 2 mio fans can have

a GOOD star wars mmo

or would you have another zombified game like warhammer online?

they came, they launched, and they failed

some things are better in SWTOR, than in ANY other game,,companions, voice overs etc

but most of it is below standard,,or worse

thats one reason for for the strong feelings about SWTOR,,it is attractive, and pulls the player in

but then pushes them back again in the next minute

When his sole contribution to this site is posting messages about how he hates SWTOR, then no, I don't think he should be allowed to post.

nobody is forcing you to read his posts,,by logging into this site, you have shown interest in players

opinions about the games they play,,just beacause you dont have the same opinion, that doesnt make his opinion right or wrong,,same as yours

by your standard, i should try and get GW2/STO haters banned too

but i barely visit those forums,,so why bother? the games stay the same anyway