Originally posted by cybertrucker

Originally posted by znaiika

There is little chalange in pvp gear, put on your simple robes and equip your low level sowrd, see if that increase your chalange.

 

What do you mean by challange?

Can you avoid hits by using terain, cover behind objects, moving around, aiming to hit, using your creativity? most games use this locked culculated system, where you gear-up and equip you restoration potions, you get hit even behind objects.

Challange is pure freedom without lock-on skills and a simple gear.

Challenging is when, your group is knee deep in mobs and roamed comes along right when you have a runner. The runner gets away and pulls 4 more mobs while your group is low on mana , and the mobs your fighting will 2 or 3 shot  anyone but the tank.

challenging is actually learning now to pull complicated rooms where a mistake means death to the entire group and possibly other groups in the area..

random spawns, and roaming mobs which most games don't  use often these days can go a long way to add challenging  OVE

You have a wrong view of meaning for the "challenge". 

First : you sated groop and countless mobs.

Then : you stated way to grief your group.

Word "challenge" is not what you think it is.

Challenge is when you have obsticles and you have to overcome them using your brain not spam system.

Originally posted by znaiika

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Originally posted by znaiika

There is little chalange in pvp gear, put on your simple robes and equip your low level sowrd, see if that increase your chalange.

 

What do you mean by challange?

Can you avoid hits by using terain, cover behind objects, moving around, aiming to hit, using your creativity? most games use this locked culculated system, where you gear-up and equip you restoration potions, you get hit even behind objects.

Challange is pure freedom without lock-on skills and a simple gear.

Challenging is when, your group is knee deep in mobs and roamed comes along right when you have a runner. The runner gets away and pulls 4 more mobs while your group is low on mana , and the mobs your fighting will 2 or 3 shot  anyone but the tank.

challenging is actually learning now to pull complicated rooms where a mistake means death to the entire group and possibly other groups in the area..

random spawns, and roaming mobs which most games don't  use often these days can go a long way to add challenging  OVE

You have a wrong view of meaning for the "challenge". 

First : you sated groop and countless mobs.

Then : you stated way to grief your group.

Word "challenge" is not what you think it is.

Challenge is when you have obsticles and you have to overcome them using your brain not spam system.

No puzzles can be challenging as well. However tanks knowing now to multi aggro and keeping it can be challenging . Knowing which mobs to take out  first can make the difference between the group wiping or not. Games like EQ threw in Roamers that could  arrive at random points which can Throw a wrench in your efforts. Or other groups pulling trains which would aggro on your group. It kept you on your toes and looking out over your shoulder. Most games today are so structured that once you learn a dungeon, its always the same. There is no element of surprise. That's not to say that learning the dungeon can't prove a challenge. However once the puzzle part is figured out. It becomes fairly easy. Unless your playing with a bunch of button spammers who are so solo oriIented they dont know now to play witha a team. Then it becomes. It so much as a challenge but a lessson in futility.

 These  elements of chaos not only help to provide challenge but also adds replayability.

Seriously guys... mmo players are changing...

TERA... WoW... Lineage 2 and what else ? Hello Kitty World Online ?

Men I understand why there are so many crappy mmo now...

Take some real mmo experiences first before talk about crappy games like what I read...

Many of us (like me) didn't participate to debates since a WHILE (VERY rare for me now) on various forums because the mmo aspect from players is completly fucked by you crappy mmo copied from asia market (nothing new since 2000...).

There is no more real debates about these games. You eat the shit they want and "that's enough for my joy". OMG !

[mod edit]

(if you have problem with my grammar i don't care, I talk too many langages for reach the perfection for each)

Originally posted by nirvanet

Take some real mmo experiences first before talk about crappy games like what I read...

Ok, at that level of smarmy baitin', I just can't resist nibbling. Which title do you recommend?

No no, you can't sneak back out: Your game (you assure us) is vastly superior. Which game(s), exactly?

Originally posted by evilastro

 

Raids and difficult dungeons back then were really challenging, even with good loot. Very few people completed the hardest dungeon in TSO while it was still current content. Most who did were raid geared and then sold loot rights (after they nerfed the procs anyway).

As few as Sunwell? Which i believe only 2% of the players ever did (at the time it was current).

Have you tried EVE Online?

The AI that was introduced with the wormhole mobs makes for some rather challenging encounters. A scaled back version of that AI was spread out to a lot of other mobs in the recent Retribution expansion but even scaled back it makes for some challenging scenarios. 

Originally posted by sportsfan

Diablo 3 offers recently adaptable solo challenge (MP0-10), but MMO's simply can't offer this due to their needed avatar progress.

If one MMO would include such a feature in the future it would be an instant hit, but you would need adaptable challenges in an open world, setting the monsters/enemy difficulty yourself etc...

Perhaps Blizzard can do it with their experience in D3' MP play and phasing technique (no loading screens and still get a solo exprerience), perhaps in Titan ?

 

I think it can be done in a MMO, at least in the instances. In fact, WOW already have 3 levels of raid difficulty and DDO has different difficulty for their dungeons, so it is certainly not impossible.

To calibrate it well takes work though. Note that in the D3 MP system, you get more xp, and loot for higher MP. It works because loot is random. You can get the same godly item in low MP and high MP ... just that the chance is lower in lower MP. Thus, people can choose the MP they are comfortable doing, instead of forcing one way or another.

(Turns out that if you want to paragon level, it is most efficient to do MP0, thus in the next patch they are tweaking the xp gain, and increase it in high MP).

So it takes some calibrating and effort to make it work. I think the same thing can be done in instanced dungeons.