Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wow vanilla map size per faction is not a joke.

Reroll twice you have a heck of a lot of pve.

Compare with recent mmmos where you share content - tsw, gw2, swtor. That's a hell of a lot more pve content. Hell in the case of tsw its more without even rerolling.

How many quest are there then?

How many quests per level?

How many quests to get a level?

Will you have to grind to get to max or can you get there simply by doing all quests?

Can you get to max level and still have quests untouched?

Just how much PvE content is there?

 

I assume by your post that you know exactly what content will be in the game.

 

If not then you are just making shit up like the rest of us. Only thing we really know is that on any single character you are locked out of 60% of the map (assuming each race has 10% of the map and Cryodil is the remaining 10%) and that you cannot change factions as they are race locked.

So if you have to do all quests to reach max level within your faction region then making an alt of the same faction will require repeating quests.

If there is enough content to level up 1 character per faction but you were not region locked then you could, if you wanted, level up 3 characters of the same faction and never repeat content. This is not possible with the information available so the only way to see all content and the entire map is to crete an alt in each faction.

If the expectation is that each player will create 3 characters, 1 per faction, then the so called 'faction pride' discussed is kind of a made up thing not really worth worrying about. How can you expect faction pride when you know that the game wants you to have a character on each faction?

 

wait why this sudden obsession with quests?

i thought you were angry becasue teso isnt enough like tes and too much like "that horrible themepark daoc"?

if so why the quest thing, do you want another wow clone failure or something?

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

But its only cyrodiil thats 1/2 a wow continent (wow continent 28 square miles, cyrodiil 16 square miles), we get access to that, plus another 3 lands of around the same size per faction, that means each faction will have access to land around the size of all vanilla wow not just one continent (maybe a bit smaller but not that much)

There were 2 WoW continents, my friend.  Both launched with the game.

Yes 2 continents at 28 square miles each is 56 square miles, cyrodil is 16 square miles, each faction gets access to that 16 plus 3 other lands, 4x16 is 64 square miles, I'm taking into account that some areas of each province are being held back which is why i said it will likely be slightly smaller than vanilla wow but not that much

Obviously you know about the separations, or you wouldn't have mentioned them.  Each faction does not get 4x16, what don't you understand?  The factions are divided with barriers.  Factions CANNOT INTERMINGLE.  THEY ARE SEPARATED, completely.

 

COMPLETELY.

 

Each faction has their space, and if you want to see a different area of the map, you roll a brand new character on a different faction.  That is what we are talking about.... hrmmph!

 

In WoW terms, if you roll a Night Elf, you are NEVER allowed to zone into Undead, Human, or Dwarf territory.  You get your own territory, you will never mingle with other factions.

Your missing the point, I'm well aware that the faction lands are seperated and that you cant access the oposing factions lands, what you seem to be missing is that each faction consists of 3 "lands" ebonheart pact has skyrim morrowind and blackmarsh, plus access to cyrodiil, and thats one faction, 4 lands one faction

Questing to level is tedious and terrible. 

It also gives new armor to the player every 2.3minutes.  Making getting armor a non-thrill.

ESO  has 1 very awesome aspect.=  open dungeons.  non-instad'

Bring back  hunting  monsters to level.

Bring back no maps .

Bring back no level reqs on items.*** it's a game after all , not real life...

Bring back quests that are hard to find and only give faction . rarely a nice / clickable effect item.

Bring back the thrill of getting any piece of gear to drop.

Make me grind mobs / explore dungeons/ killed place holders to spawn named. /  rare spawns outside etc etc. / huge rare loot tables. with rare / ultra rare / insanely rare / and godly item drops.

bring back 15+ classes.  

EQ MAC time :)  

I look forward to playing TESO .  It and eqnext are the only mmo's that look like they are worth playing in 2013.  Besides eq mac of course  :)

Make 1 game for pve people without any pvp.

Make 1 game for people that want to grind to level.  take out the quest hub grind.

Make 1 game with no level reqs on any  items or buffs.  Bring back eq classic twinking. pwr leveling.

Make 1 game with massive open dungeons ,  30+ of them , with rare spawns / huge loot tables.

ESO has one thing going Open world dungeons .

1 bad part is left click to attack , right to block....   just make the controls flow like gw2 and your golden .  GW2 combat is insanely awesome.  kept me going for 2 months .

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

But its only cyrodiil thats 1/2 a wow continent (wow continent 28 square miles, cyrodiil 16 square miles), we get access to that, plus another 3 lands of around the same size per faction, that means each faction will have access to land around the size of all vanilla wow not just one continent (maybe a bit smaller but not that much)

There were 2 WoW continents, my friend.  Both launched with the game.

Yes 2 continents at 28 square miles each is 56 square miles, cyrodil is 16 square miles, each faction gets access to that 16 plus 3 other lands, 4x16 is 64 square miles, I'm taking into account that some areas of each province are being held back which is why i said it will likely be slightly smaller than vanilla wow but not that much

Obviously you know about the separations, or you wouldn't have mentioned them.  Each faction does not get 4x16, what don't you understand?  The factions are divided with barriers.  Factions CANNOT INTERMINGLE.  THEY ARE SEPARATED, completely.

 

COMPLETELY.

 

Each faction has their space, and if you want to see a different area of the map, you roll a brand new character on a different faction.  That is what we are talking about.... hrmmph!

 

In WoW terms, if you roll a Night Elf, you are NEVER allowed to zone into Undead, Human, or Dwarf territory.  You get your own territory, you will never mingle with other factions.

OK so if wow is 56sqm

and cyrodil is 16sqm

so ebonheart get cyrodil + skyrim + morowind + black marsh 64sqm

daggerfall get  high rock + hammerfell + cyrodil  48sqm 

aldemeri get valenwood + summerset + cyrodil + elswhere 64sqm

so on 2 factions you are getting more content than wow on the other less.

now if you make 3 characters, you cant count cyrodil twice but thats still 48+32+48 + 16 = 144sqm more almost 3 times as much as vanilla wow.

Now lets knock that figure downa bit for some of the negative nancies.

so you might say "well they arent going to give 1 faction less area than the other 2" , so lets assume sections of the ep and ad territory are blocked off for expansion purpose.  that still gives you 32 + 32 + 32 + 16 = 112sqm of total content,more than double vanilla wow

then you might say, "well im not doing this gw2 zerg nonsesne in cyrodil"

ok so take away cyrodil

thats still giving you on 1 character 32sqm of pve.  and across alts 96sqm of unique pve.

if you pve and pvp its on 1 character 48sqm of content, and across alts 112sqm

if you took wows world and just divided it by 3 you would get 18.6sqm of content per character.

Each faction is still less than 1 WoW continent (much less, even with examples & compaisons)

For explorerers this news is not so good.

I posted what I did to challenge the statements that this game would be the explorers dream.   To me, an explorers dream would be a faction area 10 times the size of all WoW continents, maybe 100 times (ideally).  Not a quarter of the size of WoW vanilla, with an ensuing argument that each faction area might actually be a bit more than the size of half a WoW continent.

The argument is petty.  TESO is not an explorers dream.  Unless, like I mentioned, there is a vast underworld, or flying WoW Naxx UFO's to explore.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

But its only cyrodiil thats 1/2 a wow continent (wow continent 28 square miles, cyrodiil 16 square miles), we get access to that, plus another 3 lands of around the same size per faction, that means each faction will have access to land around the size of all vanilla wow not just one continent (maybe a bit smaller but not that much)

There were 2 WoW continents, my friend.  Both launched with the game.

Yes 2 continents at 28 square miles each is 56 square miles, cyrodil is 16 square miles, each faction gets access to that 16 plus 3 other lands, 4x16 is 64 square miles, I'm taking into account that some areas of each province are being held back which is why i said it will likely be slightly smaller than vanilla wow but not that much

Obviously you know about the separations, or you wouldn't have mentioned them.  Each faction does not get 4x16, what don't you understand?  The factions are divided with barriers.  Factions CANNOT INTERMINGLE.  THEY ARE SEPARATED, completely.

 

COMPLETELY.

 

Each faction has their space, and if you want to see a different area of the map, you roll a brand new character on a different faction.  That is what we are talking about.... hrmmph!

 

In WoW terms, if you roll a Night Elf, you are NEVER allowed to zone into Undead, Human, or Dwarf territory.  You get your own territory, you will never mingle with other factions.

OK so if wow is 56sqm

and cyrodil is 16sqm

so ebonheart get cyrodil + skyrim + morowind + black marsh 64sqm

daggerfall get  high rock + hammerfell + cyrodil  48sqm 

aldemeri get valenwood + summerset + cyrodil + elswhere 64sqm

so on 2 factions you are getting more content than wow on the other less.

now if you make 3 characters, you cant count cyrodil twice but thats still 48+32+48 + 16 = 144sqm more almost 3 times as much as vanilla wow.

Now lets knock that figure downa bit for some of the negative nancies.

so you might say "well they arent going to give 1 faction less area than the other 2" , so lets assume sections of the ep and ad territory are blocked off for expansion purpose.  that still gives you 32 + 32 + 32 + 16 = 112sqm of total content,more than double vanilla wow

then you might say, "well im not doing this gw2 zerg nonsesne in cyrodil"

ok so take away cyrodil

thats still giving you on 1 character 32sqm of pve.  and across alts 96sqm of unique pve.

if you pve and pvp its on 1 character 48sqm of content, and across alts 112sqm

if you took wows world and just divided it by 3 you would get 18.6sqm of content per character.

Dont forget that the lands are bigger than cyrodiil.

For instance morrowind the game was at least as big as oblivion if not bigger and morrowind only takes place on the island at the top, not the full area, and daggerfall was said to be twice the size of the uk if you walked end to end. So they can hold back plenty of areas and still be very large

Originally posted by Karteli

Each faction is still less than 1 WoW continent (much less, even with examples & compaisons)

 

For explorerers this news is not so good.

 

I posted what I did to challenge the statements that this game would be the explorers dream.   To me, an explorers dream would be a faction area 10 times the size of all WoW continents, maybe 100 times (ideally).  Not a quarter of the size of WoW vanilla, with an ensuing argument that each faction area might actually be a bit more than the size of half a WoW continent.

 

The argument is petty.  TESO is not an explorers dream.

Your math is going wrong somewhere, because 3x16 is bigger than 28

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No its more than 1 wow continent. 48sqm
Wow continent is 28sqm

If you only pve though. Not bad 32sqm per faction.

Your statements are not supported with any kind of evidence.

If you think the other guy makes sense, then repeat it back in your own words :D

Originally posted by ShakyMo
And if you make alts 7 * 16 = 112sqm
Which is exactly double vanilla wow content.

Don't include alts.  Just a single character and everything they can possibly do.

Also your rationale for 112 is way off.

Sure if you include alts, SWTOR has a lot of planets .. but no one character can visit them all, and that sucks.  Hence the game is restrictive.  It also has PVP rules similar to TESO .. limited interaction with the other faction... ughh .. lame.

WoW had the system down .. and that was 8 years ago.  Amazing. (Although WoW isn't a very good game nowadays, or even close to what it used to be).

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No its more than 1 wow continent. 48sqm
Wow continent is 28sqm

If you only pve though. Not bad 32sqm per faction.

Your statements are not supported with any kind of evidence.

 

If you think the other guy makes sense, then repeat it back in your own words :D

We are using the numbers you provided, cyrodiil is 16 square miles, each vanilla continent is 28 square miles, each faction has access to cyrodiil (16sqm) plus their own lands which consist of 2/3 zones of comparable size to cyrodiil (16sqm), thats at least 2 x 16sqm for pve (32sqm)content per faction plus the 16sqm for cyrodiil thats 48sqm, which is more than 28sqm

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

But its only cyrodiil thats 1/2 a wow continent (wow continent 28 square miles, cyrodiil 16 square miles), we get access to that, plus another 3 lands of around the same size per faction, that means each faction will have access to land around the size of all vanilla wow not just one continent (maybe a bit smaller but not that much)

There were 2 WoW continents, my friend.  Both launched with the game.

Yes 2 continents at 28 square miles each is 56 square miles, cyrodil is 16 square miles, each faction gets access to that 16 plus 3 other lands, 4x16 is 64 square miles, I'm taking into account that some areas of each province are being held back which is why i said it will likely be slightly smaller than vanilla wow but not that much

Obviously you know about the separations, or you wouldn't have mentioned them.  Each faction does not get 4x16, what don't you understand?  The factions are divided with barriers.  Factions CANNOT INTERMINGLE.  THEY ARE SEPARATED, completely.

 

COMPLETELY.

 

Each faction has their space, and if you want to see a different area of the map, you roll a brand new character on a different faction.  That is what we are talking about.... hrmmph!

 

In WoW terms, if you roll a Night Elf, you are NEVER allowed to zone into Undead, Human, or Dwarf territory.  You get your own territory, you will never mingle with other factions.

Yes. YES COMPLETELY. CAPS MORE. COMPLETELY and NEVER. And... THATS AWESOME. NO MINGLE. YEP.

Btw who cares how many sqm a map has anyway? I bet you cant even explore one wow continent completely so... whats the issue?

Carebears, doomsayers... wow.

And this thread made me laugh btw.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
And if you make alts 7 * 16 = 112sqm
Which is exactly double vanilla wow content.

Don't include alts.  Just a single character and everything they can possibly do.

 

Also your rationale for 112 is way off.

 

Sure if you include alts, SWTOR has a lot of planets .. but no one character can visit them all, and that sucks.  Hence the game is restrictive.  It also has PVP rules similar to TESO .. limited interaction with the other faction... ughh .. lame.

 

WoW had the system down .. and that was 8 years ago.  Amazing. (Although WoW isn't a very good game nowadays, or even close to what it used to be).

 Thats your opinion, I think it is good. Needs to work this way for this game. WoW had open world PvP with no objective, wouldnt say they had it down. If they had POI to capture and hold would have made it alot more interesting, but instead it was just shallow and pointless.

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No its more than 1 wow continent. 48sqm
Wow continent is 28sqm

If you only pve though. Not bad 32sqm per faction.

Your statements are not supported with any kind of evidence.

 

If you think the other guy makes sense, then repeat it back in your own words :D

We are using the numbers you provided, cyrodiil is 16 square miles, each vanilla continent is 28 square miles, each faction has access to cyrodiil (16sqm) plus their own lands which consist of 2/3 zones of comparable size to cyrodiil (16sqm), thats at least 2 x 16sqm for pve (32sqm)content per faction plus the 16sqm for cyrodiil thats 48sqm, which is more than 28sqm

misinformation

Your derivations are not solid :D

An ESO faction is a lot less than 2/3 of a WoW continent.  Each faction is not 2X the size of Cyrodiil (see earlier map, or provide a new one if that is outdated).  Data indicates the exact size, with one faction larger.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No its more than 1 wow continent. 48sqm
Wow continent is 28sqm

If you only pve though. Not bad 32sqm per faction.

Your statements are not supported with any kind of evidence.

 

If you think the other guy makes sense, then repeat it back in your own words :D

We are using the numbers you provided, cyrodiil is 16 square miles, each vanilla continent is 28 square miles, each faction has access to cyrodiil (16sqm) plus their own lands which consist of 2/3 zones of comparable size to cyrodiil (16sqm), thats at least 2 x 16sqm for pve (32sqm)content per faction plus the 16sqm for cyrodiil thats 48sqm, which is more than 28sqm

misinformation

 

Your derivations are not solid :D

 

An ESO faction is a lot less than 2/3 of a WoW continent.  Each faction is not 2X the size of Cyrodiil (see earlier map, or provide a new one if that is outdated).  Data indicates the exact size, with one faction larger.

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously saying the map of tamriel is to scale? you clearly havent played daggerfall or morrowind

Edit: infact look at that map, daggerfall is on there, daggerfall alone is larger than wow and lotro combined

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No its more than 1 wow continent. 48sqm
Wow continent is 28sqm

If you only pve though. Not bad 32sqm per faction.

Your statements are not supported with any kind of evidence.

 

If you think the other guy makes sense, then repeat it back in your own words :D

We are using the numbers you provided, cyrodiil is 16 square miles, each vanilla continent is 28 square miles, each faction has access to cyrodiil (16sqm) plus their own lands which consist of 2/3 zones of comparable size to cyrodiil (16sqm), thats at least 2 x 16sqm for pve (32sqm)content per faction plus the 16sqm for cyrodiil thats 48sqm, which is more than 28sqm

misinformation

 

Your derivations are not solid :D

 

An ESO faction is a lot less than 2/3 of a WoW continent.  Each faction is not 2X the size of Cyrodiil (see earlier map, or provide a new one if that is outdated).  Data indicates the exact size, with one faction larger.

Are you seriously saying the map of tamriel is to scale? you clearly havent played daggerfall or morrowind

 

Edit: infact look at that map, daggerfall is on there, daggerfall alone is larger than wow and lotro combined

The map is to scale.  It's from a dev's statement, like I said earlier.  Cyrodiil is a 1:1 to Oblivion.

Daggerfall is another ballpark. Dev's never mentioned Daggerfall.  F'kin awesome game though.

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by ShakyMo
And if you make alts 7 * 16 = 112sqm
Which is exactly double vanilla wow content.

Don't include alts.  Just a single character and everything they can possibly do.

 

Also your rationale for 112 is way off.

 

Sure if you include alts, SWTOR has a lot of planets .. but no one character can visit them all, and that sucks.  Hence the game is restrictive.  It also has PVP rules similar to TESO .. limited interaction with the other faction... ughh .. lame.

 

WoW had the system down .. and that was 8 years ago.  Amazing. (Although WoW isn't a very good game nowadays, or even close to what it used to be).

 Thats your opinion, I think it is good. Needs to work this way for this game. WoW had open world PvP with no objective, wouldnt say they had it down. If they had POI to capture and hold would have made it alot more interesting, but instead it was just shallow and pointless.

Wow was designed as a PvE game. PvP was thrown in as a "second, third or fourth" option. Main design focus was, is and will always be PvE.

If ESO is designed like DAoC, it will have its PvE there and shining but it will depend on the PvP - DAoC players remember the difference between PvE with 6 Relics (2 + 4 from other realms) and PvE without a single relic - was prolly the difference between "I can kill these 8" and "I better not even go in there".

Plus some pve was actually allowed only through PvP - Darkness Falls.

So again, if ESO is designed like DAoC, it will have nothing to do with WoW.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

 

wait why this sudden obsession with quests?

i thought you were angry becasue teso isnt enough like tes and too much like "that horrible themepark daoc"?

if so why the quest thing, do you want another wow clone failure or something?

Obsession with quests?

Sorry thought I was asking questions relevent to your post about quests and content. Glad to see you totally avoided answering ANY of my questions...again!

And I am not angry at anything. I have stated my opinion that the faction/race locks are not a good idea due to the effect it has on exploration of "the entire continent of Tamriel can now be explored" because they forget to add the small print onf only being able to do it by creating alts. It is sort of like claiming you have been to Tibet when in fact it was a friend but he showed you the pictures.

And I haven'yt said anything about it being too much like DAOC. I stated that it isn't enough like TES due to the fact that they seem to be placing more importance on PvP and the structure DAOC had then using their brains and working out ho to make TES into an online game.

I do not want another WOW clone failure, where do you get that from? Their design is linear not freeform progression, locked content not open content, PvP with some PvE not PvE with some PvP.

Their design is flawed.