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2/04/13 9:35:00 AM#41
Well depends on game
Fallout3 isn't as good as the non bethseda fallout 1 & 2 New Vegas is an improvement upon fo3 Morrowind is a classic, a game that set a mold for a new style of rpg. Oblivion introduced the horrible console interface and is more linear and generic than morrowind Skyrim is a modern classic, it brings back some of the magic of Morrowind, and is the first tes game to get the leveling system right, still has the horrid console UI though. Yay for pc centric UI with a hotbar in TESO. |
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2/04/13 9:37:29 AM#42
Originally posted by calranthe You can't expect the same results with this game. First off, Bethesda is involved through consulting. Zenimax is the developer. However, consider that many of those systems and mods are an attempt to make the game resemble an MMO, at least at first glance. They're adding quests, schedules, crafting, etc. These features exist in an MMO. Honestly, it's getting annoying hearing people complain about MMOs being generic. MMOs have quests, skillbars, raids, classes, races. Graphics won't be stellar. The game is what you make it. It sounds like you don't like MMOs.  |
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2/04/13 9:38:19 AM#43
Originally posted by calranthe I'll disagree to a point. Those "graphical updates" aren't always great. In some cases they do huge disservice to the game. The problem with "graphic update mods, is that in some cases they change the flavor of the art assets to something the modder would prefer and in other cases they completely take away any sense of cohesion. I'm currently playing Morrowind and Skyrim. I'm using the MGO for Morrowind and though it's a great job at its heart, it's an artistic mess. You have bottles and plates that look like they are from one game and chests that look like they are from another. The updated textures for armor can be nice but then you look at things like the rocks or stone and it's too "high def" and doesn't look like it belongs in the world at hand. It's as if someone took a picture and slapped the texture on the side of a building without thinking how it needs to look like it's part of the rest of the textures around it. I'm not saying that the modders didn't do a great job but anyone with a professional eye can see that a greater sense of cohesion needs to be brought to the table to create a decent look to the whole. Not to mention that a lot of the fog seems removed so you can see the checkered tapestry of all the different areas fromn on high. This takes away the feeling of a huge world allowing for the new areas to gradually come into focus as you approach them and creates a stark contrast from one area to another allowing for the illusion of a huge world to be stripped away. For some reason some players hunger for high fidelity but aren't sensitive enough to realize that there is an artistic whole that needs to be addressed. That is a harsh criticism which is only necessary when players say "oh, modders have saved these games". Modders have added amazing things but I don't believe they have "saved" anything. Vanialla morrowind might look dated but it does work as a visual whole. for my tastes the MGO adds a lot of nice things that flavor the game in a way that I like (and in some ways that I don't) but I say it's different not better. I will give a shout out to aMidiborn armors for skyrim. He does an amazing job of creating very detailed work that fits in with the game. However, that's "flavor" not "saving" the game or necessarily making better as the original textures do work. The weather mods sometimes don't work well as they will "suddenly" stop or suddenly start. But agian, that's flavoring not "better or worse" as the weather in skyrim is fine the way it is. Most of those race mods are nice but in no way fit in artistically with the other races. In some cases it looks like you plopped a character from a different game into skyrim. Again, the work the do is great but it adds flavor. The game is very much playable even though, say "realistic lighting" isn't there. I prefer realsitic lighting but it doesn't make the game "better" just different. There are reason the devs have made these design decisions. It's not because they don't want to make the most realistic game out there. It's because they need to make a game that runs on many computers. So I love mods but they are not what makes these games work. The games work fine on their own. |
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Originally posted by Adokas Yes it is but why not innovate, yes it is more of a challenge, we have seen that most people really do not want generic copies of past mmo games, we want something different. Real time combat can be possible, choice pvp + phasing has proven if used right and expanded on it does not break the game or enjoyment. Skyrim and oblivion use instanced housing so that really is not an issue. Exploration and the journey to max level or no actual max level just a graduated xp system based on skills and events would not please the "end game" crowd but sucks to be them anyway. None of the above are impossible for an mmo. |
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2/04/13 9:41:05 AM#45
Be careful what you wish for. You try and make a mmo too much like the single player rpg experience - you get swtor. A weak single player game hampered by mmo features and a piss poor awful "mm"o.
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Originally posted by deakon I would love to see figures to back this up and also stats showing how many console players are still playing there copy of oblivion 7 years later and finding fresh content. |
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Originally posted by ShakyMo SWTOR was still generic mmo hotbar tab combat and a reskin of wow except for the story and voice work |
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2/04/13 9:43:08 AM#48
Originally posted by calranthe I'd argue that innovation does not always need to be sought. Sure, it's nice. But gamers are fickle beings. We tend to get upset at nothing. Including innovation. If ESO brings to the table what it looks to be doing, I'll be quite happy with it personally. DAoC type of PvP is great in my opinion, and I can definitely imagine it in an ESO setting. Would I like housing? Yeah, definitely, and I'm certainly disappointed there won't be housing. But all the other stuff, it might be possible, sure. But the task of balancing it all would be incredibly daunting and immense, if you were to build it like a single player ES game. There HAS to be some limits. |
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2/04/13 9:43:49 AM#49
Hmm last I the checked "choice pvp", voluntarily flagging yourself and shit, that was a feature of star wars galaxy not the elder scrolls.
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2/04/13 9:47:00 AM#50
Originally posted by Adokas This is very true. |
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2/04/13 9:47:03 AM#51
Daoc has better housing than tes.
It's zoned not instanced, you can build your house next door to your friends. |
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2/04/13 9:48:38 AM#52
Originally posted by calranthe 1) 3 realm conflict, your correct not been in tes games before, but then again niether has pvp and if we could only have things that previous games have had we wouldnt have had dragons in skyrim etc
2) player owned housing didnt come into tes games until oblivion
3) cgi trailers are pretty standard for most games these days, theyre not exactly indicative of a bad game
4) this isnt true, skyrim/oblivion does have a hotbar its just hidden and arena was just xp based not skill based, teso will have both skill based leveling and xp based
5) the game opening up at 50 is just marketing speak for "we have end game...honest", its a statement that needs to be said because most mmo's lack in this department at launch |
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Originally posted by Destai You can't expect but I do. I play a lot of mmo games, I still actually run a mud (precursor to mmo) that has been running for 15 years now, the lack of innovation and use of popular IP is destroying the genre. We expect less so we get less. I play Star Trek online and pay subscription because the space combat is fun, the changes since launch and conten is amazing I play EVE online as my only pvp game I play TSW for the storyline and content I play Champions oline because the changes since launch are great and I miss my make a costume fetish :) So actually I love the mmo genre it just seems to be dumbing itself down more and more. I see ESO like the american version of Godzilla anyone who knows the toho version and brand knows what I mean.
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2/04/13 9:51:41 AM#54
Originally posted by calranthe Only 14% of skyrim sales were pc |
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2/04/13 9:52:30 AM#55
lol @OP
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2/04/13 9:58:05 AM#56
Originally posted by deakon Thank you. I've been saying this for quite some time. Bethesda wants to expand mods to console players but the truth is that mods are a pc centric thing and the pc sales are dwarfed by the console sales. I find that a shame but the truth is most players of Elderscrolls games don't get access to mods. It's not part of their regular elder scrolls experience. |
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2/04/13 10:00:16 AM#57
Originally posted by deakon Doesn't support his opinion so will likely be ignored lol... Facts in a half baked thread usually don't get acknowledged.
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2/04/13 10:04:46 AM#58
Originally posted by deakon You sure about that? I am pretty damn sure I built a house in Morrowind. I remember it being up a hill from a rinver and you follow the river to the town and buy parts/building materials from there somehow. been a long time since I played Morrowind so I might be wrong but...but...memories tell me Morrowind had housing. |
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2/04/13 10:06:10 AM#59
O_O
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2/04/13 10:07:00 AM#60
What? Well Bethesda has always made decent games, but I have never once thought of them as highly as most seem to. I think they're good but overrated. That's beside the point though, since Bethesda is not making TESO.. for better or for worse, we don't know yet.
no GW2 won't kill WoW, but it's time to move on and quit worrying about those people still playing it. - eyelolled |
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