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General Discussion  » What I see as ESO's possible pitfall.

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79 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15642

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

 
OP  2/04/13 12:55:53 AM#1

When I put what I've seen of this game together into one big picture, I'm seeing a game that is aiming to answer complaints made toward many of this genres entries over the last 5-7 years.

Those complaints being:

1: Lack of exploration

2: Two factions can be lopsided and doesn't work

3: Creating too many servers, merges etc...

4: FFA PVP being problematic toward PVE game-play

5: Lack of meaningful rewarding PVP

6: Environments being static with no acknowledgement of deeds done

7: Crafting being an after thought as well as inferior to other gear paths

8: Classes and progression within, too similar to WOW

If you've watched the PUB for the last 5 years or so, I think you'll remember many of these complaints above being trending topics over those years. As many games have released with these problems or faced them soon after release. Another common complaint was hyping a game over many years, rather than just months before people get to see it.

I'm not saying ESO will be the answer to these problems, I'm just seeing many of them being taken on in it's design. Much like the goal seemed to be for GW2.

If anything good comes of that, it's that it shows devs are moving toward new ideas and rehashes of old ones we rarely see.

Where my thread titles comes from though is a worry that they may be trying to take on too many of those complaints, or are aiming to please too wide a demographic. A focus on doing many things okay, rather than a few things near perfect, can be almost as bad as doing nothing right.

As the saying goes, "we shall see". I'll remain caustiously optimistic until beta.

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Soulryn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/12
Posts: 11

2/04/13 1:03:36 AM#2

Creating too many servers? WOWlike classes and progression? FFA PvP? 

Get some info about the game -.-´

  boxsnd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 410

2/04/13 1:05:42 AM#3
Originally posted by Soulryn

Creating too many servers? WOWlike classes and progression? FFA PvP? 

Get some info about the game -.-´

Did you even read his post?

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  MyTabbycat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 303

2/04/13 6:42:42 AM#4
I think ESO addresses most of your issues except for #1 Exploration. There are many threads about faction locked territories so I won't get into that too much. But I think if there is anything that might hurt this game it would be that. There will be players from the single player TES games that are used to being able to traverse all over the game map, whether it was via levitation in Morrowind to get over the mountains or riding your horse up a steep cliffside in Skyrim thanks to the weird physics in the game. They will come into ESO expecting to be able to do the same thing and will complain when they realize they have to make 3 characters in order to do so.
  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 725

Permafried

2/04/13 6:49:52 AM#5

Well regardless of the fate of ESO, it sure has gained a lot of traction here @ MMORPG.com.  The amount of threads is staggering.

I believe hype is hype.

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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  Angzt

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 233

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional."(Bob Monkhouse)

2/04/13 6:51:31 AM#6
pitfall was an awesome game tho ^^

"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/04/13 6:53:31 AM#7
Tabby
That depend how big the world is. If its anything like daoc the world will be huge and there will be considerably more exploration than in modern mmos.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15642

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

 
OP  2/04/13 1:27:02 PM#8
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Tabby
That depend how big the world is. If its anything like daoc the world will be huge and there will be considerably more exploration than in modern mmos.

Very true.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Razperil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 307

Everything has it's time and its place, know yours?

2/04/13 1:45:39 PM#9
Originally posted by Distopia

When I put what I've seen of this game together into one big picture, I'm seeing a game that is aiming to answer complaints made toward many of this genres entries over the last 5-7 years.

Those complaints being:

1: Lack of exploration

2: Two factions can be lopsided and doesn't work

3: Creating too many servers, merges etc...

4: FFA PVP being problematic toward PVE game-play

5: Lack of meaningful rewarding PVP

6: Environments being static with no acknowledgement of deeds done

7: Crafting being an after thought as well as inferior to other gear paths

8: Classes and progression within, too similar to WOW

If you've watched the PUB for the last 5 years or so, I think you'll remember many of these complaints above being trending topics over those years. As many games have released with these problems or faced them soon after release. Another common complaint was hyping a game over many years, rather than just months before people get to see it.

I'm not saying ESO will be the answer to these problems, I'm just seeing many of them being taken on in it's design. Much like the goal seemed to be for GW2.

If anything good comes of that, it's that it shows devs are moving toward new ideas and rehashes of old ones we rarely see.

Where my thread titles comes from though is a worry that they may be trying to take on too many of those complaints, or are aiming to please too wide a demographic. A focus on doing many things okay, rather than a few things near perfect, can be almost as bad as doing nothing right.

As the saying goes, "we shall see". I'll remain caustiously optimistic until beta.

 

 

#8- People need to stop worrying about or comparing games to Borecraft. Not every developer is out to make "more" games simliar to Borecraft. Heck, even Borecraft isn't Borecraft anymore. If anything, it's a lesson on how to "not" make one like it. I could go on, however, it might be considered "bashing" because it's my own opinion, etc, so we'll stay on topic.

As far as Elder Scrolls Online, the best thing you said was "we shall see". Speculating like too many do really has no benefit unless you have the need to add stress/aniexty/worry  to your life. :) Good luck with all of that nonetheless.

  DanitaKusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/09
Posts: 544

2/04/13 1:49:50 PM#10

Well my number one complaint about MMO design is that they spend vast amount of effort designing levelling content but put limited effort into endgame content for max level players.

I would much prefer to see a game or expansion to a game that concentrates solely on endgame content and doesn't waste it budget on levelling content that people will zoom through in a couple of days and then never visit again.

The Enlightened take things Lightly

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/04/13 2:00:51 PM#11
Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Well my number one complaint about MMO design is that they spend vast amount of effort designing levelling content but put limited effort into endgame content for max level players.

I would much prefer to see a game or expansion to a game that concentrates solely on endgame content and doesn't waste it budget on levelling content that people will zoom through in a couple of days and then never visit again.

I kinda agree but I do think fun leveling content is a must if you want longevity, pointless having a good end game if no one makes it that far.

 

I do agree that end game has been lacking tho, and I think its down to end game normally being the last thing they create, imho mmo dev's would be better served working backwards, make sure you have a large base end game to build up from, one thats fun even when repeated 10/20/100 times, once thats nailed you then build a good game to get you there.

 

It's almost as if devs don't realise that leveling content is once and done where as end game has to be repeated over and over

  mistmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 229

2/04/13 2:07:16 PM#12


Originally posted by Soulryn

Creating too many servers? WOWlike classes and progression? FFA PvP? 

Get some info about the game -.-´



 
lol. you didnt read his post....

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

2/04/13 2:08:38 PM#13

Well a lot of those positive points are really heresay, since nobody actually played the game outside of select representatives.

 

I can comment on exploration.  Each factions restricted area amounts to something like 1/3 or 1/2 of a WoW continent, since devs gave away the size of Cyrodiil, noting that it was a 1:1 with Oblivion.

 

In MMORPG language Cyrodiil wasn't that big, and therefore the other faction restricted areas will follow suit.  For a single player game, the world is nice and big.  For an MMORPG, not really.

 

 

So the total world (3 factions instances + Cyrodiil) might be the equivalent of WoW Vanilla, but with all the artificial barriers in place to limit each factions explorable region, it's going to feel small and boxed in.

 

Or so it seems.

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  User Deleted
2/04/13 2:08:43 PM#14
And....another one of these "ESO fail thread" seriously, ppl dont have anything better to do?
  cronius77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1308

2/04/13 2:12:39 PM#15
Originally posted by ikarrian
And....another one of these "ESO fail thread" seriously, ppl dont have anything better to do?

might as well get used to them , this is how it is with every single release on this site . Then all the hype carries over to game release and then tons of people play it based on the hype , bash it to death , and claim its losing subs and is a failure and is going free to play next month , than the month after that etc.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/04/13 2:13:07 PM#16
Kartelli
Bit "massaged" those map size stats.

Oblivion is the smallest of the 5 tes games for a start.
  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/04/13 2:13:30 PM#17
Originally posted by Karteli

Well a lot of those positive points are really here-say, since nobody actually played the game outside of select representatives.

 

I can comment on exploration.  Each factions restricted area amounts to something like 1/3 or 1/2 of a WoW continent, since devs gave away the size of Cyradiil, noting that it was a 1:1 with Oblivion.

 

In MMORPG language Cyradiil wasn't that big, and therefore the other faction restricted areas will follow suit.  For a single player game, the world is nice and big.  For an MMORPG, not really.

 

 

So the total world might be the equivalent of WoW Vanilla, but with all the artificial barriers in place to limit each factions explorable region, it's going to feel small and boxed in.

 

Or so it seems.

 

I question how accurate that pic is

 

For instance I know lotro is bigger than wow, but by that much? No chance, according to that vanilla lotro is 375 times the size of vanilla wow, I've played both and like I say, no chance

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 808

2/04/13 2:16:01 PM#18
Originally posted by ikarrian
And....another one of these "ESO fail thread" seriously, ppl dont have anything better to do?

this is where all the MMO hipsters hang out. if a game doesn't have

 

open pvp

city building

skill based leveling

player looting

sandbox elements

and if its not created by 3 guys in their parents basement.

 

it sucks, its going to fail and its just a wow clone.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

2/04/13 2:17:24 PM#19
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kartelli
Bit "massaged" those map size stats.

Oblivion is the smallest of the 5 tes games for a start.

It's only used as a reference.  TESO world is larger than Oblivion, but Cyrodiil was used for size comparisons, since the devs mentioned Oblivion as a 1:1 comparison in size, in relation to TESO.

 

The actual world will be like this, which is about the size of WoW Vanilla:

 

 

With a note that Cyrodiil will be about the size of 1/3 of a WoW Vanilla continent.  WoW had a fully open world though.  Go from there.

 

The saving grace would be the 3D aspect, and is going to depend on how much explorable regions exist below the surface .. or above, who knows .. maybe Naxx UFO's will invade.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10722

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

2/04/13 2:21:57 PM#20

The company has a budget of $300M and ESO is (I think) the biggest game they are developing, so it's getting the biggest share of that budget. If they have bitten off more than they can chew with their goals, it won't be because they didn't have enough money to finish the job.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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