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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » A user's view of foundry

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34 posts found
  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/25/13 7:40:51 PM#21
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by gillrmn
...

+1, Cryptic done a pretty decent work to keep the Foundry clean of CoH Architect-type quick loot and quick xp exploit. Beside those quick missions which "exploited" Investigate Officer report (not really an exploit, rather a shortcut for getting the 1 piece of daily loot quicker - and the option is already closed by Cryptic) I haven't seen any exploiting / farming mission in the Foundry. So there's no "go in, 10 minutes, huge xp and a nice loot, repeat that for hours, profit" way in Foundry which pretty much ruined CoH's Architect. I trust in Cryptic that they will keep Neverwinter's Foundry clean as well.

It is more of a war with exploiters, but you should also see that for each solution implemented, freedom of foundry author was taken away too.

So it is more of a loosing game, kept prolonged by using innovative solutions somehow.

  mazut

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 833

2/04/13 2:38:24 AM#22

A bit more trivial question from me. Will Foundry be limited like in STO. Limited Mission slots, limited access to other players creations or no access at all, unless subscriber, semi subscriber (whatever the payment model is), limited mod tools? 

What is the limitation for F2P users?

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  2/04/13 4:32:44 AM#23
Originally posted by mazut

A bit more trivial question from me. Will Foundry be limited like in STO. Limited Mission slots, limited access to other players creations or no access at all, unless subscriber, semi subscriber (whatever the payment model is), limited mod tools? 

What is the limitation for F2P users?

Slots will be limited, and you need to have one character at lvl 15 before you can start with foundry.

 

They will not monetize foundry authors and players will not be monitized any different from rest of the content.

 

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016471/User-Generated-Content-In-MMOs

  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

2/04/13 6:34:41 AM#24

great thread here so far Gill!  I have to admit the foundry has me interested in this title.  My concerns with this title involve how much the foundry will cost to unlock (outside of founder's packs) post launch, and whether or not they charge to expand the foundry options. I am also curious about the length of time it may take to upload user content via the volunteer review process.   The D&D group I am a part of have enjoyed the PnP game along with DDO, but the foundry in Neverwinter, if robust enough, may give us some new avenues of adventure!

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1130

2/04/13 6:44:20 AM#25

I heard from a reliable source that they are going to charge people for different kind of Foundry packs.

I.E Tile sets, objects, monsters, events...

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 582

2/04/13 7:23:38 AM#26
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

I heard from a reliable source that they are going to charge people for different kind of Foundry packs.

I.E Tile sets, objects, monsters, events...

They've explicitly mentioned in several interviews and conferences that they will not charge for such things. So, your source is not reliable.

GDC Vault presentation

"How do you monetize the authors: You don't."

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1476

2/05/13 7:50:56 PM#27
Originally posted by gillrmn

Oh! One thing I forgot to add. Although you can create sub-quests - you cannot (based on STO mechanics) assign loot for that particular sub-quest.

I have heard that if you submit your map to be featured, and if it is selected as a good map, cryptic's devs can add loot for sub-quests but in user's foundry - you only have end reward chest.

 

However, based on STO foundry, you can put a wall in front of chest which only dissappears if you do a particular sub-quest - but that will just end up making the sub-quest part of the main quest (to open the path).

And this is the million dollar question with foundry in Neverwinter.  Reward structures.  They've struggled with it in STO, and it's nowhere near the loot centric game something like Neverwinter will be.  Are people going to be happy going on a deep dungeon delve and coming away with a reward that might be underwhelming, or similar to a reward in a different mission that only took half the time?

 

Cryptics biggest hurdle is figuring this out and doing it in a way that's not exploitive but also leaves people satisfied with time spent a variety of foundry scenarios. 

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1476

2/05/13 7:54:07 PM#28
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

I heard from a reliable source that they are going to charge people for different kind of Foundry packs.

I.E Tile sets, objects, monsters, events...

I seriously doubt it, that wouldn't be a smart marketing strategy.  Your founder creators are going to bring and keep players in the game, you want to give them all the support you can. 

  koboldfodder

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 369

2/05/13 8:20:14 PM#29

PWE is after one thing, $$$.  What they did in STO, and what they will do in NW, is stretch content out so that you have to grind not only to get rewards, but to unlock various teirs of grinding.  Then, when all is said and done, you have to have some type of in-game currency to purchase the loot.  In STO it was dilithium, and they cornered the market on it....lol.

 

STO was never a good game, but what PWE did was so obvious many people just stopped playing (and not that many were playing it before).

 

That same method will be the backbone of Neverwinter.  You will do missions for various factions and you will have to tier up your reputation with those various factions.  Once you get to the end part you will then hit the next speed bump, which is the gathering of Neverwinter currency (dilithium) to purchase rewards. 

 

They will also put some sort of refinement system in place so that you can only get so many faction items per day....thus stretching out an already stretched out system.

 

That is your reward system, don't think it will be anything other than that.  They will not let the foundry supercede their plans to make you do things over and over and over, day after day and week after week....grinding out the same faction missions or content, to get the exclusive "rights" to then purchase a sword or piece of armor.  Hopefully you have enough in game currency...you might even be able to purchase it within the Cryptic store.  Of course, PWE will set the price.  If they can make 5 dollars off of you, you better believe there is a plan in the works to make 10 dollars doing the exact same thing.

 

The foundry will be nothing more than content.  While there might be loot, it won't be the stuff that anyone is actually looking for.  What you might see is a daily mission to do three foundry missions and that reward will be Neverwinter in game currency......that needs to be turned into an NPC for the final faction currency (this way they can create an artificial cap).

 

The foundry will be a lot of hot air simply because PWE cannot afford to have actual rewards that derail their reputation system.  What would be the point of all that grinding if you can do a foundry dungeon and get the same or equivelent piece of loot.  One hour VS one month type of thing, PWE is always going to want you to do the one month type of thing.

 

That is the core essence of F2P games....to stretch out content so that you have to do the same content over and over again for end rewards.  That is the way it works in STO, that is the way it will work in Neverwinter.

 

By the way, not many people do the foundry missions in STO.  They are considered a total waste of time, not because they lack creativity...some of the missions are as good or even better than some of the Crypitc developed missions.  They are considered a waste of time because there is no tangible carrot on the themepark's stick.

 

I think the foundry is basically this.  It is Cryptic telling you that they cannot create content fast enough to satisfy the needs of the player in a themepark MMO, but they cannot supercede the payment model set up by PWE.  They want you to play, but they do not want you to be really rewarded.  They will tell you the playing content is the actual reward, but anyone who has ever played ten minutes of end game time in a themepark MMO will tell you that LOOT is what drives the end game player.

 

Sorry to sound so negative, but PWE is really an awful thing to the MMO genre.  Just another Chinese company trying to create a monopoly and will do whatever it takes to steal your money.

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1631

2/05/13 10:27:02 PM#30
Originally posted by DeniZg
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

I heard from a reliable source that they are going to charge people for different kind of Foundry packs.

I.E Tile sets, objects, monsters, events...

They've explicitly mentioned in several interviews and conferences that they will not charge for such things. So, your source is not reliable.

GDC Vault presentation

"How do you monetize the authors: You don't."

All that says is they won't charge players to play other users created content.  It doesn't say anytning about selling asset packs in the market or worst putting them in gambling chests where the keys are bought for money.  I hope they don't but I'm not very hopeful at this point with this companies track record.

The nice thing about limiting the encournters to premade scripts is they can give out loot based on the script you fight.  I really like the idea of having player content that gives real rewards.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1476

2/05/13 11:31:09 PM#31
Originally posted by koboldfodder

PWE is after one thing, $$$.  What they did in STO, and what they will do in NW, is stretch content out so that you have to grind not only to get rewards, but to unlock various teirs of grinding.  Then, when all is said and done, you have to have some type of in-game currency to purchase the loot.  In STO it was dilithium, and they cornered the market on it....lol.

 

STO was never a good game, but what PWE did was so obvious many people just stopped playing (and not that many were playing it before).

 

That same method will be the backbone of Neverwinter.  You will do missions for various factions and you will have to tier up your reputation with those various factions.  Once you get to the end part you will then hit the next speed bump, which is the gathering of Neverwinter currency (dilithium) to purchase rewards. 

 

They will also put some sort of refinement system in place so that you can only get so many faction items per day....thus stretching out an already stretched out system.

 

That is your reward system, don't think it will be anything other than that.  They will not let the foundry supercede their plans to make you do things over and over and over, day after day and week after week....grinding out the same faction missions or content, to get the exclusive "rights" to then purchase a sword or piece of armor.  Hopefully you have enough in game currency...you might even be able to purchase it within the Cryptic store.  Of course, PWE will set the price.  If they can make 5 dollars off of you, you better believe there is a plan in the works to make 10 dollars doing the exact same thing.

 

This is the MMO genre in general, especially the f2p market. PWE isn't different than any other company in this respect, and their dilithium -> cashshop points market is one of the better F2P systems in the genre.  I don't really know what you expect of a f2p game, they aren't going to hand you stuff on a silver platter; the whole point is to get you to spend money to bypass time delays.  Even B2P games like GW2 do the same thing, and they've already fleeced their $60 bucks off you.

As long as stuff is obtainable through in-game measures aside from real money(and as far as I know, all of Cryptic's games function that way), I couldn't care less.  That's the proper way to run a f2p, and it's a big reason why STO recently won the F2P of the year award.

The problem with foundry awards is tiering them in a way that makes it so that a 1hr long dungeon delve is worthwhile compared to a 30 minute dungeon delve.  That's the reward issue I was talking about.  You don't want to handcuff foundry authors to certain constraints because the playerbase ignores their content due to the "path of least resistance"  mentality that MMO gamers have.

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 582

2/06/13 3:14:26 AM#32
Originally posted by Draemos

The problem with foundry awards is tiering them in a way that makes it so that a 1hr long dungeon delve is worthwhile compared to a 30 minute dungeon delve.  That's the reward issue I was talking about.  You don't want to handcuff foundry authors to certain constraints because the playerbase ignores their content due to the "path of least resistance"  mentality that MMO gamers have.

Well, as long as you're getting XP, drops or any kind of in-game currency from trash mobs, I don't see where's the issue here. 

 

Originally posted by koboldfodder

That same method will be the backbone of Neverwinter.  You will do missions for various factions and you will have to tier up your reputation with those various factions.  Once you get to the end part you will then hit the next speed bump, which is the gathering of Neverwinter currency (dilithium) to purchase rewards.

So, basically, it's sort of like...vanilla WoW?

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1476

2/06/13 7:41:23 AM#33
Originally posted by DeniZg
Originally posted by Draemos

The problem with foundry awards is tiering them in a way that makes it so that a 1hr long dungeon delve is worthwhile compared to a 30 minute dungeon delve.  That's the reward issue I was talking about.  You don't want to handcuff foundry authors to certain constraints because the playerbase ignores their content due to the "path of least resistance"  mentality that MMO gamers have.

Well, as long as you're getting XP, drops or any kind of in-game currency from trash mobs, I don't see where's the issue here. 

 

If you played end-game founder content in STO, you'd understand.  It's an issue, trust me.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  2/08/13 3:55:39 PM#34
Originally posted by DeniZg
...

So, basically, it's sort of like...vanilla WoW?

I think now it give more weight to my words, but I am not confirming or denying anything.

 

All I am saying is have a look at foundry Quests in beta and check. Even sandbox quests are possible in foundry! Someone must have made a sandbox quest. (hint hint!)

 

( not really sand box, a term incorrectly but popularly used, but nonlinear gameplay quests)

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