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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Group Mechanics?

14 posts found
  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  2/01/13 8:25:45 PM#1

Lame GW2 set up where everyone can do everything and everyone is self sufficient?   zzzZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzzz

 


Trinity where you need healer, tank dps?

 


Other?  healer, cc, tank, dps?

 


no one knows? 

 


hopefully the group set up is fun and not every class is the jack of all trades making team work non existent  (looking at you gw2)

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  Torcip

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 610

2/02/13 2:18:08 PM#2

In my understanding of the limited information that's out there.  There will not be traditional tanks as aggro will not be like most MMOs. There will however be healers and tanky classes, just that the tanks will have other means of pulling mobs of squishies other than threat generation. IMO threat generation was the dumbest thing ever added to MMOs and welcome the recent change to get away from it.

  Mollow

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/03
Posts: 66

2/02/13 3:06:42 PM#3
Originally posted by Torcip

In my understanding of the limited information that's out there.  There will not be traditional tanks as aggro will not be like most MMOs. There will however be healers and tanky classes, just that the tanks will have other means of pulling mobs of squishies other than threat generation. IMO threat generation was the dumbest thing ever added to MMOs and welcome the recent change to get away from it.

Sounds good, and I agree.

  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

2/02/13 4:00:40 PM#4

Agreed about GW2 class system. I don't like the "everyone can do everything" approach at all. 

  jonesing22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/10
Posts: 682

2/02/13 4:58:16 PM#5
I also agree that GW2's system is horrible. It really turned me away from group play and dungeons. I also don't like to depend on one or two classes to be in group to be able to get anything done (trinity). Although, I think if players can build their character in an Elder Scrolls fashion, the trinity may work well. 
  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

2/02/13 5:00:57 PM#6
no taunt mechanic, free roam agro. no holy trinity at all. it's like GW2. classes can do healing, support, cc, etc. and cross class combos too.
  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/02/13 5:05:55 PM#7
Originally posted by jonesing22
I also agree that GW2's system is horrible. It really turned me away from group play and dungeons. I also don't like to depend on one or two classes to be in group to be able to get anything done (trinity). Although, I think if players can build their character in an Elder Scrolls fashion, the trinity may work well. 

I think gw2's problem wasnt that the classes could do everything, it was the lack of trinity imho, everything trurned into a zergie mess, I'm fine with no strict roles, but I do think the roles need to be there.

TBH GW2 is exactly why I'm hoping ZOS have changed their mind on the "no agro mechanic" that was talked about back in june

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/02/13 5:11:13 PM#8
Originally posted by Rthuth434
no taunt mechanic, free roam agro. no holy trinity at all. it's like GW2. classes can do healing, support, cc, etc. and cross class combos too.

According this site when they played in ocober, the trinity is in the game

 

 

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

2/02/13 5:11:33 PM#9
I don't know. An agro system adds a layer of depth, but I've always found it difficult to reconcile the mechanics with the logic that a mob would be most concerned with the tank, which is the best protected and doing the least amount of damage. It's sort of immersion breaking.
  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 247

2/02/13 5:11:43 PM#10
Originally posted by jonesing22
I also agree that GW2's system is horrible. It really turned me away from group play and dungeons. I also don't like to depend on one or two classes to be in group to be able to get anything done (trinity). Although, I think if players can build their character in an Elder Scrolls fashion, the trinity may work well. 

ok so... you dont like if classes can do everything, but you also dont like to depend on one or two classes (trinity)...

lol... so... hm... I cant even recommend Fifa13 since you need "fowards, mids and defs" ...

Endulge me... what would better suit you then? Cause I dont think you have more choices... its either Trinity or GW2.

Also... dont think you'd be better off just playing single player games?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/02/13 5:41:52 PM#11
Torcip has it right, you gank through collision detection, crowd control etc.. rather than with + threat attacks.
  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  2/02/13 7:44:31 PM#12

 

Team work and great group mechanics happen when  players depend on other players to fill a role, or to manage aspects of a battle that another cannot. I'm not talking about lame, vague, hardly useful combos either.


Buffers, healers, dmg mitigation, crowd control. Everyone has a job, thats team work.

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/03/13 10:37:01 AM#13

I am hoping they go the middle route.  I agree. jack of all trades sucks. But if ESO is like Skyrim, it took a lot of time to be able to level up all your skill sufficiently enough to be real viable at them all.

I hope they have the progression like Skyrim, where you can be whatever you want, but, knowing that if you forgo specializatio, you will still need teamwork. 

As for the trinity.  I think if you force players to make decisions like I stated, knowing that they need to specialize early, then expand later (Saw a dev interiview that said at max lvl, you are only about 1/3 through progresing your character) then they will conform naturally to one of the playstyles, but have room to also customize enough that they can stand in for any role in a group with good team work.

What I saw though from the videos, that really worries me, is that combat, especially with a large boss type creature and several players, was like every other MMO out there and NOTHING like all the other elder scroll games.  In such that, everyone just stood around the boss beating on him, spamming their skills.  There was no movement, except when the bosses did a knock back.

I would like to see anyone be able to "tank", just like in the single player games.  I think they need to dump the traditional aggro tables, and have the monster base threat on actual threat.  i.e who is closest to him and hammering him.  Or if  a caster is especially pissing him off, then he will try and get him.  But a heavy plated warrior would stand inbetween the caster and the monster and start swinging.  And of course, the monster, having some guy cleaving into him, would realize he is the bigger threat and needs to get through him to get the caster.

Aggro that makes sense.  None of this "I am going to ingore the 3 guys with giant axes laying into me, because that caster that is clear on the other side of the room hit me with a fireball"  Makes no sense.

This would require teamwork.  If you want to "tank" you simply do what a "tank" does, you protect your party.  You put yourself between the monster and the weaker members.  Anyone can tank. If a mage has exceptional defensive spells, and maybe even some armor or healing, and is good at dodging attacks, he can tank.  Or a rogue can run around and harrase the guy, with quick attacks and then backs out.

Thats what I want to see.  If you get damaged and need healing, you back out, let someone else come in.

Mobile, teamwork combat, not "lets just stand here and get beat on, hoping my healer can keep me up" crap.  

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/03/13 10:42:24 AM#14
Originally posted by tiefighter25
I don't know. An agro system adds a layer of depth, but I've always found it difficult to reconcile the mechanics with the logic that a mob would be most concerned with the tank, which is the best protected and doing the least amount of damage. It's sort of immersion breaking.

The tank is also standing between the mob and the other guys.  I agree, blind aggro on a tank is dumb. BUt as I stated in my previous post, smart aggro on a tank would be awesome.

If the guy doing more damage then the tank is standing right behing the monster, then the monster will be like, eff this, that dude behind me with two nasty swords is pissing me off. He will then try and take him out.  It is up to the melee players to dodge and evade attacks if they can't take the pain.  A heavy armored guy however, could stand and take a few hits or block them, and not have to worry about dodging so much.  The monster might be more likely to focus on him as he seems the "easier" target, not moving as much.

And casters should always have to stand behind the melee, so the monster will see they have to get through the melee to get to them, rather then just run past the melee like in other games.  If a caster is standing somewhere doing tons of damage, and the montster sees there is a clear line of sight, with no other players in the way, he might risk charging over to knock him out.

The truth is, all classs should have ways to avoid damage.  Maybe not heal themselves, but ways to mitigatge or avoid, either by ward spells, shields, parrying, or just plain moving.  It will take time to get the ingrained MMO melee players to move when they see a swing coming, rather then just stand there and only move when they see an effect on the ground.  If you have a shield, learn to block the attacks you can't dodge.  If your a rogue type, learn to hit from behind, move around behind the guy with the most armor that is designated to take blows if you draw the monsters ire, or back out and use a bow if your taking a beating, again, trying to break los with the boss by putting someone between the two of you.  I think most things will tend to focus on whats in front of them and swinging a weapon. 

 

Unfortuantly, from the videos I saw, it looks as combat is just a giant circle jerk around the boss, absorbing every damaging attack he does, regardless of what weapon or spell your using.