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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

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94 posts found
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

2/01/13 3:30:29 AM#41

From what I have seen of gameplay, this thing is a console game with some user configurability. It won't be a true MMO, nor will it work like PnP Dungeons and Dragons. Better adjust your expectations now.

It may be a great game, but it won't be something like the campaigns of olde at yon kitchen table.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

2/01/13 4:23:45 AM#42
Originally posted by evilastro
...

- Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

...

- No trinity - there are four roles based on 4e like the first D&D game : controller,defender,striker and leader.

This part is integrally tied to the IP - of post spellplague NW campaign setting.

  Kreedz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 449

2/01/13 4:39:55 AM#43

Ah, NWN... I have fond memories of that game... and even log into it still from time to time, there are still some interesting PW going on to this day. It also reminds me of the good old days when BioWare actually made compelling stories and had good gameplay at the top of their lists... you know, before EA came along and scooped out and discarded all the good things about BioWare and left it to rot like an empty husk.

 

I think a big part of what Perfect World is trying to do with D&D: Neverwinter, is recapturing what was so great about NWN, and that was being able to create your own content to play with your friends. Unfortunately the Foundry just sounds like a map editor for making Dungeon Crawler campaigns, rather than actual Persistent Worlds like NWN had.

 

It's a step in the right direction, but I have my doubts about how succesful it will be...

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  Omnifish

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 617

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

2/01/13 4:48:31 AM#44

It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Ulrick28

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/18/04
Posts: 71

2/01/13 4:55:59 AM#45

What makes it D&D for me is that it has the module creator (I forget the name of it).  You can create your own dungeons/quests/etc for a party to run through.

 

PnP D&D is a mixture of the setting, the mechanics (the rules), the ability to play with people, and the ability for the DM to get creative.  Neverwinter is likely different in rules since it's an MMO and not a pencil/paper RPG.  However, from what I have seen it does have the right to call itself D&D and Neverwinter (it has the setting, it has the ability to make your own quests/dungeons, you can play with friends, and it follows the tabletop rules as closely as it can while still being an MMO). 

 

Now, I could be hugely dissappointed at release (it's happened before with games I was looking forward too).  But so far it looks fairly good and at the very least it's being pretty true to it's license.

 

(I have not preordered the game and I play tabletop D&D weekly..same group for the last 7 years).  Luckily my fiance also plays in the same group :)

 

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/01/13 6:32:04 AM#46
Originally posted by Omnifish

It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

 

Well, Queen Latifah is not a crap actor by a long stretch, but I understand your point, and I get how branding works...

We all know branding can be ethical and honest or it can be cynical and dishonest, designed to fool people.

Which is this?

  MurlockDance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

2/02/13 4:16:57 AM#47
Originally posted by ignore_me

From what I have seen of gameplay, this thing is a console game with some user configurability. It won't be a true MMO, nor will it work like PnP Dungeons and Dragons. Better adjust your expectations now.

It may be a great game, but it won't be something like the campaigns of olde at yon kitchen table.

I am probably showing my age here but, there were two sorts of AD&D of course : the PnP stuff you are talking about, and then the dungeon crawls where you had a board, pieces, and a dungeon setup that the dungeon master took you through and it was basically a bash-monster-and-grab-loot fest.

DDO and this Neverwinter game seem a lot like the latter than the super-involved PnP roleplaying game you are mentioning, yet both have been in AD&D/D&D since... well... the beginning pretty much.

I admit to preferring the more involved world-based PnP games myself.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  BlackcatZero

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 46

2/02/13 4:18:40 AM#48
http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/dd-ultimate-pack/102768 I'm guessing this would be more worth it??
  Arallu01

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/05
Posts: 77

2/02/13 4:41:42 AM#49
So, its based on the 4e rules that WotC are quickly moving away from in their new D&D Next version, eh? Just all around odd vibes with this.
  User Deleted
2/02/13 4:55:38 AM#50
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by evilastro
...

- Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

...

- No trinity - there are four roles based on 4e like the first D&D game : controller,defender,striker and leader.

This part is integrally tied to the IP - of post spellplague NW campaign setting.

 Just because they call it a 'Leader' does not make it any less a healer. The trinity will still hold true in Neverwinter.

The cleric's power source remains divine, and they fill the role of Leader. Their powers (called prayers) focus on healing, protection and support.

Devoted Cleric focus on support, ranged combat and Wisdom-based prayers.

Parties in Neverwinter will most certainly comprise of 'Guardian Warrior, Devoted Cleric... and others'. A trinity. Some might want a controller but that will be optional.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15999

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/02/13 5:28:58 AM#51
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Omnifish

It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

 

Well, Queen Latifah is not a crap actor by a long stretch, but I understand your point, and I get how branding works...

We all know branding can be ethical and honest or it can be cynical and dishonest, designed to fool people.

Which is this?

kinda hard to say without playing it.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Boraell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 83

2/02/13 7:30:05 AM#52
Originally posted by Vesavius

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

If its an unknown IP then its not possible to look at it as a fan. If your asking would I be looking at it as a fan of the genre then yes I would, exactly as I do with every new or announced RPG, RTS, FPS, or MMO. I then decide based on the information availible if it has the GAMEPLAY im looking for to make it worth investing some time and less money than I spend in 2 hrs at a restaurant on.

Unfortunately theres a good reason the word fan is derived from fanatic (which is apparently acceptable in video games but not religion!!), to qoute one of the posters on page 1:

What does a twitch-based action game have in common with a PnP RPG? Not much, in my opinion. I don't care what universe a video game is set in, or what 'rule set' it uses. If you can't play a rogue paladin who's on a quest to dethrone the corrupt leader of his order, you're not playing an RPG.

Yet hes on a website dedicated to games where you cant do that....

  MurlockDance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

2/03/13 4:30:43 AM#53
Originally posted by Boraell
Originally posted by Vesavius

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

If its an unknown IP then its not possible to look at it as a fan. If your asking would I be looking at it as a fan of the genre then yes I would, exactly as I do with every new or announced RPG, RTS, FPS, or MMO. I then decide based on the information availible if it has the GAMEPLAY im looking for to make it worth investing some time and less money than I spend in 2 hrs at a restaurant on.

Unfortunately theres a good reason the word fan is derived from fanatic (which is apparently acceptable in video games but not religion!!), to qoute one of the posters on page 1:

What does a twitch-based action game have in common with a PnP RPG? Not much, in my opinion. I don't care what universe a video game is set in, or what 'rule set' it uses. If you can't play a rogue paladin who's on a quest to dethrone the corrupt leader of his order, you're not playing an RPG.

Yet hes on a website dedicated to games where you cant do that....

Yes, I think it is a shame that MMORPGs never went in the direction of PnP and the MUDs/MUSHes where you could indeed have such storylines in them. These were not hardcoded stories though : these were basically "live events", run by GMs. I don't really see any other way to do this than to have GMs and live events.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  barasawa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 223

I have a wandering mind, but that's ok, it brings back presents.

2/03/13 4:51:20 AM#54

Don't forget that Neverwinter is the main political and economic power in that setting.

If you want to buy something, sell something, or hire someone, you can do it at Neverwinter.

 

Sure, they could always put the game in the underdark, but that wouldn't have half the possibilities that Neverwinter can provide as your adventuring hub. Though they could save a lot on graphics since you'd mostly be blind in the Underdark, unless you had darkvision, but that only goes so far (usually either 60' or 90' with a few rare 120') and is in black and white.

Then there's always Thay, but I don't think adventurers have much leeway there since it's rather totalitarian from what I've read. And of course, insulting one of the Red Wizards is a quick way to get outlawed if not executed.  In my opinion, Thay is a great place to visit and cause chaos in, so long as you are high enough level to get away with it, and get away safely. :)

Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  Valas71

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 9

2/03/13 5:22:07 AM#55
Nothing , it doesn't even follow the 4E RULE SET , COME ON ! , never seen a warrior roll 250+ damage on any mobs . this great weapon fighter video is bull s h i t   .where in any D&D rule set do you see any role do 1000+ crit  , this is just a action Role playing game ,not D&D rule set
  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

2/03/13 6:55:06 AM#56
Originally posted by barasawa

Don't forget that Neverwinter is the main political and economic power in that setting.

If you want to buy something, sell something, or hire someone, you can do it at Neverwinter.

 

Sure, they could always put the game in the underdark, but that wouldn't have half the possibilities that Neverwinter can provide as your adventuring hub. Though they could save a lot on graphics since you'd mostly be blind in the Underdark, unless you had darkvision, but that only goes so far (usually either 60' or 90' with a few rare 120') and is in black and white.

Then there's always Thay, but I don't think adventurers have much leeway there since it's rather totalitarian from what I've read. And of course, insulting one of the Red Wizards is a quick way to get outlawed if not executed.  In my opinion, Thay is a great place to visit and cause chaos in, so long as you are high enough level to get away with it, and get away safely. :)

Neverwinter is the center of Netheril and Thay war right now. Ashmadai are two timing them while openly supporting Thay(as before Neverember came they ruled there).

Neverember is an outsider to Neverwinter and came there because he hates Thay and hates Netherese. So it is a four way standoff.

 

 That and the city is multi-racial i.e. Any race can come freely there - no restrictions on magic either.

 

Only other good cities of Sword Coast that match NW are BG, Waterdeep and Amn.

  Tyrranosaur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 283

2/05/13 5:51:27 PM#57
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by SpectralHunter

My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

 

Obvious snarky remarks aside...

Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

 

Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

You...haven't played a lot of tabletop D&D have you? D&D is, as IPs go, rather larger and more encompassing than just Black Isle and FR. As both properties go (not to mention prior Neverwinter titles) everything I've seen so far screams D&D...at least, D&D as it's been portrayed in various medai for the last fifteen years. 

 

D&D has had four primary editions and two variant editions (the original "zero edition" and Basic/Expert). It's got tons of spin-offs, the core game is covered by more than a dozen published worlds (FR being only the more popular of them), and of course it's 3rd edition of the game...the one that started D20....spun off many variants, some of which even influenced games like KOTOR 1 and 2. 

 

Anyway, if we decided that for NW to look/feel like D&D it must emulate the mechanics, then we must ask, "which edition, and to what extent?" because there is no single representation of D&D that is easily defined by its mechanics outside of some key "sacred cow" concepts like armor class, hit points, alignment and such. This gets even crazier when you consider that as of 2013 the 4th edition is effectively "dead" and they are developing a 5th edition for a 2014 release. In fact right now they are reprinting all the older editions, putting many in print again for the first time in decades.

 

If D&D is defined by its settings, then FR is a good choice, but personally I wish other worlds like Greyhawk, Eberron, Ravenloft or Dark Sun didn't get ignored all the time. Hell, a new Planescape game would be fantastic. But D&D at its core is not actually about any of these settings, but the one that the players and DM create, so even an "official" setting isn't exemplary of D&D necessarily (for example, the movies...for better or worse...do not use an established setting).

 

D&D does have a lot of concepts that, if present, make it feel more like D&D. Alignment...drow....beholders....the planar wheel....Orcus...stuff like that is ubiquitous in D&D.  

Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  Tyrranosaur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 283

2/05/13 6:08:07 PM#58
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Omnifish

It's a license they bought to appeal to an established fanbase. 

Much like how rappers make crap actors, studios will still give it a go because they bring along a fanbase who'll go see the film just to see their favorite rapper in it.

So regardless of how the game is people will still try it out based on the name association.  That's how branding works ;)

 

Well, Queen Latifah is not a crap actor by a long stretch, but I understand your point, and I get how branding works...

We all know branding can be ethical and honest or it can be cynical and dishonest, designed to fool people.

Which is this?

We won't really know until it arrives, of course. If I had to guess based on what I'd seen so far, however, I'd say its an earnest effort to encapsulate the game's look, feel and lore but the mechanics will probably pay lip service to D&D 4th edition...and no one will be bothered, because that edition is already being buried in an early grave, unfortunately. 

Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  Tyrranosaur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 283

2/05/13 6:17:59 PM#59
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

I bought into and have quite enjoyed Rift, which had no tie-in to anything prior to its own existence other than the broader scope of "fantasy gaming," so yes, its possible to be excited for a game without a distinct IP attached.

 

To answer the question about NW specifically: I think I would be interested in it regardless of the D&D bit because of the prospect for dynamic user-generated scenarios which has not been done (to the best of my experience) in a fantasy MMO before; I also like the ARPG element they have been advertising. So yeah, the game does indeed seem to be offering (according to all I've read) some interesting features that make it interesting regardless of the IP.

 

What I don't like, unfortunately is the $200 early adopter package they threw out there recently, which does not bode well for a game that can be played for reasonable money. Perfect World has, in my experience, been excellent and ruthless when it comes to gouging customers in its freemium models.

Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5827

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/05/13 6:30:40 PM#60

i never played Neverwinter, didnt like D&D and im waiting for this game. As for Elder Scrolls, i like morrowind, i like oblivion, and i LOVE SKyrim. I want skyrim online but i know TESO is far from it but im also waiting for that game.

 

If the story is good enough to keep me engaged then ill be happy. I dont play mmos without story anymore. Thats what keeps me pushing my character through any game. A good story. Since i neve played NWN im not even connecting that story to NW but as long as its engaging im fine.

Thats just me

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