Originally posted by Maelwydd
 

I'm not quoting because I dont want to turn this into a rainbow hehe

Ok, just one note - They dont say "everyone has to fight"... but "everyone has to contribute to the war effort"... you may not be a warrior, but you can be a crafter and dont fight at all.

If you want me to drag this into real history, then look at the women in ww2 in america. They werent drafted to the fields of germany, but they did get "encouraged" and were more than willing to go to factories that use to make tuna cans and toys and started to make ammo and tires, and guns ... all this to "do their part" for their country - actually if you check it you'll see that the american war machine in ww2 was almost absolutly powered by civilian women "doing their part".

So ok... they didnt "fight" but you dont need to fight to support your country in a crisis.

Now about that "defection" part... I actually think its a good idea, IN THEORY, but in practice it would be a nightmare to apply to a game - just take a few minutes to think about the mechanics required to put that into an understandable mmo without completely turning it into a "who? what? where? why? is this guy what? Huh?" game.

Some concepts have to be simplified for the sake of gaming - its like trying give super mario mushrooms a justification using  real biology and try to apply the concept to the game... it would completely f-up the game - ok small mario, eats mushrooms, gets bigger, thats it. Really. Its a "K.I.S.S" concept and works just fine.

Greatest concern would the PvP being limited to only one area that is considered 'OPEN' , which is Cyrodii itself.

I certainly hope there are more PvP areas that arent instanced and Please no Battleground crap!

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Originally posted by DSWBeef
1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll.
The top guy is straight from DAoC. They have 3 race locked realms, too. They chose MMO over TES.

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Originally posted by DSWBeef
2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games.
That is not what the average MMO player wants in a game. They want max level now. And the subsequent grind. They chose MMO over TES.

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Originally posted by DSWBeef
3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal?
They went with the PvP centric game. If it sucks, it sucks. They don't have much to fall back on, do they? They chose MMO over TES.

Originally posted by DSWBeef
4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?

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Again, the mass of MMO players want classes.

Originally posted by DSWBeef
5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.

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It was massive damage control over the backlash of their choice of MMO over TES. Those two features are very much possible in MMOs of today.

Originally posted by DSWBeef
6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.

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That's my take on your points. They are my concerns, too.

[EDIT]
I forgot to add that I was never interested in DAoC. I am sad to see TES turned into DAoC3.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

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Originally posted by Mercscythe
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.

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This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...

Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...

This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.

My god...

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In real life? There is NOWHERE I cannot go during wartime. There are no "magical barriers" that keep me from going anywhere I please. Could I die? You bet! And quite quickly depending on the area I go to. BUT... I can still go there. How do people fight a war when they cannot access each others territories? Oh yea, they meet on neutral ground. ROTFLMAO

I CAN go to Korea. I CAN do what I wish there. Will there be consequences? You bet! But I can go there if *I* decide to.

The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.

You confuse me.

First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)

As for me... I'm one of the first DAoC players and as you might imagine, each word they say about TESO is making the game better and better for me - specially the faction lock. "no you wont go to enemy territory like in WoW to check out the view - want to go there? Roll a char there - no more of this "I want to be everything, go everywhere and do anything - nop, theres games with something called CHOICES which players completely eliminated from games for the past 10-15 years. Yea well... choices are a bitch, but you have to live with them... thats how it should be - thats why yesterday's games made you think and today's games and mind numbing bore fests

Btw you know also why theres a faction lock? Because thats tied with the "megaserver idea". There will be no "pvp server - pve server - rp server" there will be one server and with faction lock pve'rs can pve without being worried about pvp, and still play with their pvp'er friends - because behind the walls is safe, both can choose to do whatever they like without being restricted or forced into a server they dont feel confortable with just because their friends are there. (I have a friend that just doesnt do any pvp, yet so we can play together he came to a pvp server - in TESO he (or me) wont have that issue - And this is true choice - not game choice, but real life choice. Join one and only server and do whatever you like... not those little issues "oh noe I cant go to skyrim as a breton - yea too bad, you rolled a breton, if you want skyrim, roll a nord - CHOICES see? And consequences also! Finally some consequences to real choices on a game.

Btw in TES I'm also always a vampire and there will be vampires in TESO and you know for me whats best? Is that because of my choice I'm forced to do things a bit different - I loved Oblivion, you couldnt do anything normal as a vampire during the day without getting burned everywhere, but because of people like you, vampires in skyrim are ridiculous... just walking in broad day light contradicting EXACTLY what you can read in a book called "Immortal Blood" in Oblivion, why? Because of people like you that want EVERYTHING with no consequences what so ever! "I want to be a vampire but I dont want to die in a fast travel - DONT FAST TRAVEL you may end up dead if you end up at noon in the opposite side of the map"... but nooo... you had to be a vampire that could walk during the day... so bethesda complied. No. You made a choice of being a night creature - live forever as a night creature - as if those addons or potions or whatever the crap that was that "cure the vampirism" werent bad enough.

People like you that want everything, everywhere, everytime just ruin the fun in making bad choices in games and having to live with them (or making a choice knowing there will be bad consequences and you take that path perfectly aware of them)

Go play X-COM: Enemy Unknown on Classic / Ironman then mail firaxis whining about how you get one shotted because you put your colonel in a bad position and "oops".

Oh and no... you can't go to North Korea. You won't even get past the DMZ. I'm sorry.

My One concern is How well their Mega Server will be able to actually handle the amount of people that will Flood the game on its release. 

Its very important to not have Lag/Server problems on the actual release date and the week following.

One of my concerns is, that this mega server stuff, will make it harder to form (Server) communitys, although i must admit that i do not know exactly how the MS will work and may be wrong. 

Community building is very important for any MMO imo, and especially vital in a pvp-rvr enviroment.  Fighting an enmy you have come to know, with people you know and rely on is much more engaging then just fighting with random guys, in my opinion. 

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

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Originally posted by Mercscythe
At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.

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This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...

 

Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...

This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.

My god...

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You totally missed the point. In Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim there was NO AREA I could not get to if the area was made for the game. NOTHING was locked out because of my race. Kind of tough to go to Skyrim when playing Morrowind when that area did not even exist in the game. Of course, there was Solstheim.

 

In real life? There is NOWHERE I cannot go during wartime. There are no "magical barriers" that keep me from going anywhere I please. Could I die? You bet! And quite quickly depending on the area I go to. BUT... I can still go there. How do people fight a war when they cannot access each others territories? Oh yea, they meet on neutral ground. ROTFLMAO

I CAN go to Korea. I CAN do what I wish there. Will there be consequences? You bet! But I can go there if *I* decide to.

The thing you don't get about TES players is that we love exploring the open world. TES:O has taken this open world away from us and want to call it TES. That's a lie.

This x1000. At no point during Skyrim, regardless of faction choice, was I ever locked out of Windhelm or Solitude. TESO is creating this huge world that for some reason or another is faction locked. Once again, factions in the Elder Scrolls have always been a choice. I could make a Dunmer and have him side with whoever I wanted or no one at all. This was an actual option in a game like SWG where you could be Imperial, Rebel, or neutral. This crap where now I am tied to some alliance simply because of my race is entirely contrary to what most Elder Scrolls fans are familiar with.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

You confuse me.

 

As for me... I'm one of the first DAoC players and as you might imagine, each word they say about TESO is making the game better and better for me - specially the faction lock. "no you wont go to enemy territory like in WoW to check out the view - want to go there? Roll a char there - no more of this "I want to be everything, go everywhere and do anything - nop, theres games with something called CHOICES which players completely eliminated from games for the past 10-15 years. Yea well... choices are a bitch, but you have to live with them... thats how it should be - thats why yesterday's games made you think and today's games and mind numbing bore fests

There's a huge difference between meaningful choices that lead one to different outcomes, each one having a profound effect on your character over "which race do I play in order to play in what area". The latter isn't any more difficult of a choice as "which game do I play" or "what server do I run on".

Making a choice on what skills to invest in, how one is going to make one's money, whether or not you take a chance to enchant an item, those are meaningful choices.

Having the world carved up and a player having to forgo his race of choice just so he can play with friends is a lame choice.

1. Basic gameplay doesn't feel fluid and responsive and has awkward/glitchy animations.

2. RvR that sucks rather than being like DAoC (or close enough - or something better)

3. PvE content too easy so you watch TV while playing rather than being immersed in the game.

4. Too many immersion-breaking things such as inexplicable teleportation and rampant use of phasing.

5. Combat not being deep enough to have longevity with the more "action-based" approach.

6. Each faction having the same classes rather than unique ones like in DAoC.

7. Super flashy anime-style combat animations with showers of light and colours for non-magic abilities.

8. Load screens when moving around inside each province.

9. Load screens entering buildings.

10. On-the-spot respeccing where your warrior character, with previously no magic experience, out of nowhere begins to cast healing spells on the rest of the party. Diablo 3 style lack-of-character-development style character setups, essentially.

phasing / instancing / dungeon finders

but my dislikes - will be likes for other players

1. Payment model. Make it B2P + cash shop with only cosmetic items, bag slots, character slots, and temporary boosts from day 1.
2. End game PvE gear impacting RvR. I'm fine with having to level to 50 to achieve my maximum potential in RvR, but if it's yet another game where every time the devs add a new PvE gear tier, you have to go do the new PvE and redo your gear template to compete in RvR, then count me out. Being good at PvP doesn't help you do PvE instances and raids, so why does every game make PvE raiding make you better at PvP? Make the separation between the two go both ways.
3. RvR incentives, rewards, and progression. Basically copy the way DAOC does it and don't copy WAR, GW 2, and any other MMO that has tried RvR and flopped at it. RvR should be a sandbox where you are rewarded for player kills. There can be keeps, towers, relics, etc., but the game shouldn't push you to take them by making them the only way to get rewards. And at all costs avoid having it be rewarding to avoid PvP conflict and take turns capturing undefended keeps.

I hope no seperation between pve and pvp gear.

Plus i hope theres enough ongoing progression.

Originally posted by Legendtrigger

I hope no seperation between pve and pvp gear.

Plus i hope theres enough ongoing progression.

Theres only 1 type of gear.  The best gear can be found in PvP, PvE and Crafting.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
First you mention WoW then you mention DAoC. Theres absolutely NOTHING in common between those two mmos besides being "mmos". Apples and oranges. (and btw... its DAoC 2, not 3, and if yer not interested, then TESO is not for you - and well.. thousands if not millions of players world wide dont care that much...)

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That is the crux of it all, isn't it? TES:O decided to appeal to DAoC players, NOT The Elder Scroll fans :)

 

I've been playing elder scrolls games from 2002 onwards, didnt start playing mmo's until CoH in 03/04, this game apeals to me (and my friends who dont play mmo's at all) just fine, just because YOU do not like some of the the things the game has to offer does not make those that do any less a fan