As a PvPer, my concerns are PvP related:

1) How will we be able to progress in PvP? Kills? Keeps?

2) Will the game allow for many different playstyles like daoc? (8v8, zerging, soloing) Or is one playstyle going to be much more effective than the others?

3) Is defending keeps going to be more rewarding than letting your enemy take it and then taking it back? (keep trading)

4) How powerful will you become after doing PvP progression for 1-2 years? Will you be able to 1shot newbies (too powerful) or will you be barely stronger than a newbie (too weak)? It is difficult to get it right. I feel only daoc got it right.

5) How will they marry the mega-server tech with PvP? Will you fight different opponents and have different allies each day? Will you be able to change "teams" easily? It will lead to no rivalries like in GW2. But then again you have no option to leave your team you may be stuck in empty zones/matchups.

Originally posted by arieste

That it'll be heavily PvP-focused.  Already a lot of emphasis seems to be placed on PvP in features and such.

 

This I sort of agree with, its made me somewhat nervous too.

I'm looking forward to the RvR, don't get me wrong but I do want plenty of PvE to do at end game aswell and we have so far seen nothing on what pve will offer at cap and I for one am fed up with having no pve end game in new releases (looking at you swtor/gw2)

Originally posted by dynamicipftw

As a PvPer, my concerns are PvP related:

1) How will we be able to progress in PvP? Kills? Keeps?

2) Will the game allow for many different playstyles like daoc? (8v8, zerging, soloing) Or is one playstyle going to be much more effective than the others?

3) Is defending keeps going to be more rewarding than letting your enemy take it and then taking it back? (keep trading)

4) How powerful will you become after doing PvP progression for 1-2 years? Will you be able to 1shot newbies (too powerful) or will you be barely stronger than a newbie (too weak)? It is difficult to get it right. I feel only daoc got it right.

5) How will they marry the mega-server tech with PvP? Will you fight different opponents and have different allies each day? Will you be able to change "teams" easily? It will lead to no rivalries like in GW2. But then again you have no option to leave your team you may be stuck in empty zones/matchups.

5. has been answered, you get assigned a campaign and that will act like your server would in other games, its perminant, will cost allience points (pvp progression) to change and you cant be in the same campaign as an alt on a different faction

rest i'm not sure on tho

A good site for info is tamrielfoundry.com, especially their dev faq section

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Originally posted by dynamicipftw
As a PvPer, my concerns are PvP related:

1) How will we be able to progress in PvP? Kills? Keeps?

2) Will the game allow for many different playstyles like daoc? (8v8, zerging, soloing) Or is one playstyle going to be much more effective than the others?

3) Is defending keeps going to be more rewarding than letting your enemy take it and then taking it back? (keep trading)

4) How powerful will you become after doing PvP progression for 1-2 years? Will you be able to 1shot newbies (too powerful) or will you be barely stronger than a newbie (too weak)? It is difficult to get it right. I feel only daoc got it right.

5) How will they marry the mega-server tech with PvP? Will you fight different opponents and have different allies each day? Will you be able to change "teams" easily? It will lead to no rivalries like in GW2. But then again you have no option to leave your team you may be stuck in empty zones/matchups.

---

Why not: "Do i need to PvE to PvP?"

Originally posted by DSWBeef

I have been arguably a huge skeptic of TESO. Hell back at announce I started the FB betrayal page. Ive cooled down but I still have some concerns.

 

1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll.

2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games.

3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal?

4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?

5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.

6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.

 

What do you guys think? What are your concerns? Now please be constructive with any feedback you have. I dont want this turning into a fanboy vs hater thread.

 OP I agree with your list, they are on my list also which includes the massive change to the look of the Elvish races to that of the typical fantasy elf look, its a slap in the face to long time TES fans...and then comes the changes to the lore being done to match their DaoC clone game, factions are segregated and their zones are cut off from others...and the PvP zones which all factions are trying to take over during a time when IT WASNT HAPPENING. Races were not just living in their homelands at the time of the 2nd era.

The first 430 years of 2E was peaceful under the rule of the Ayleid, that year the last leader of the empire is assissinated with no heirs and the empire fell...and the FIRST attack against Tamriel was in *572* but was stopped at Morrowind, nobody took over the old empire during this time, there were no massive wars between three factions and Tiber Septim came in at the end of 2E and united the lands.

Originally posted by Nitth

Why not: "Do i need to PvE to PvP?"

Because that answer already was given "crafting has meaning - crafted gear will not lose to its "drops" counterparts"

So... no, you dont need to pve to pvp.

Also if the daoc philosophy is maintained, in daoc you didnt need to pve to pvp. Actually the best of the best gear that you could ever possibly get to pvp was/ HAD to be crafted. I remember spending 100 plats on a chain vest. Gemmed... enchanted... and still YOU DIED!!!

(but you killed a lot to be fair lol)

Originally posted by DSWBeef

I have been arguably a huge skeptic of TESO. Hell back at announce I started the FB betrayal page. Ive cooled down but I still have some concerns.

 

1. Faction Lock. Now I know the PVPers will come in here and say its necessary for pvp but I ask you wouldnt 3 OPEN factions which you have the chance to join net the same thing? Hypothetically, what if there was 3 factions who are all race mixed but wanna rule Tamriel for different reasons? Why cant I as a Bosmer pick one of those three instead of being forced into one? Also this is terrible for a lot of guilds mine included, none of us can agree on which faction to roll.

2. If I remember correctly in one of the videos a dev said once you get to 50 the game really opens up. This implies that leveling isnt really all that important. Why cant leveling be jsut all relevent as cap? This is why I now support level less games.

3. What if RVR sucks? This is a PVP focused game after all and what if the RvR is abysmal?

4. Classes, now I know they are loose classes by why have them to begin with? Why cant you be like Skyrim allowing you to level up skills and mixing them together?

5. Announcement seemed more like Damage Control for the incoming Shit storm. If I remember correctly they said Player housing wasnt possible and neither was true action combat. Even though weve seen both work and work well.

6. Obvious wow clone worries. The western dev market has been pretty bleak the recent years. With either devs releasing to early or releasing blatant wow clones.

 

What do you guys think? What are your concerns? Now please be constructive with any feedback you have. I dont want this turning into a fanboy vs hater thread.

At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.

Originally posted by Fishmitts
I'm a little iffy on the fact that a level 10 will "statjump" in PvP (I think I just made that up) so that they are able to participate with the big boys. How is that going to work? Do the higher levels get a debuff when fighting a lower class enemy? Or like I said, a statjump.  

They have said they will boost your stats up to level 50, but you wont have access to the abilities of a level 50 and (not sure if this next part is 100% true but i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere) any bonus stats from gear.

Personally I'm fine with this, when it comes to large scale pvp it tends to become more about numbers and/or a good strat than a individuels stat count. Its only really in instanced pvp, where all sides are equal, that an individuel's stats come into play in any real way.

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Fishmitts
I'm a little iffy on the fact that a level 10 will "statjump" in PvP (I think I just made that up) so that they are able to participate with the big boys. How is that going to work? Do the higher levels get a debuff when fighting a lower class enemy? Or like I said, a statjump.  

They have said they will boost your stats up to level 50, but you wont have access to the abilities of a level 50 and (not sure if this next part is 100% true but i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere) any bonus stats from gear.

 

Personally I'm fine with this, when it comes to large scale pvp it tends to become more about numbers and/or a good strat than a individuels stat count. Its only really in instanced pvp, where all sides are equal, that an individuel's stats come into play in any real way.

I suppose I can live with that, thanks for taking the time to respond.:)

Originally posted by Mercscythe

At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
 

This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...

Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...

This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.

My god...

Good list. My only concern with the information currently available is everything that deives from raction locking races. I really has a huge impact of the entire game and while it might be positive for PvP it really is bad for PvE and having that TES feel. Some really good idea's in other threads about it too that I sometimes wonder just how long they actually thought abut it. I mean if they spent a long time coming up with the idea did no one at any point query if locking races into factions was a bad idea? and if so did no one come up with something simple like suggested where you have 3 houses fighting and they recruit guilds to join them and guilds can comprise any mixture of races.

I can't even begin to imagine the headache it will cause guilds. I will probably only roll a Breton, a Nord or a an Orc so if I was in a guild I already have my options cut down and if the guild chose the AD I would be screwed. I still shake my head when thinking about this design as it just makes no sense in a holistic design aproach and really only seems to be for the PvP.

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Originally posted by Mercscythe

At the moment, just this really. But it's a pretty big concern for me as it is a major departure from the previous single player games. I don't like the thought of parts of the world being locked off just because I am part of some faction and that the only common ground is Cyrodil. That definitely doesn't sound like an Elder Scrolls game to me. That and for some reason Imperials aren't playable I guess. Wasn't planning on playing one but that came across as an odd choice.
 

This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...

Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...

This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.

My god...

Relax man it's just a game. And yeah, in Morrowind you couldn't go to Skyrim. Guess what? Morrowind isn't an MMO. It was a small part of a bigger world. In MMOs, you generally have a larger world and this game is no exception. Oh, I didn't know being at war meant I couldn't tread on the enemies lands. So there is just a bunch of giant walls around the gameworld with ever alert guards that will spot you regardless of your sneak or illusion skill? Yeah, that sounds like Elder Scrolls, limitless walls abound. Let's not take into account that WoW lets you pretty much go anywhere at your own risk and that has factional warfare. I get the lore is making it so your faction is fighting over a contested, desired land. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still want to explore enemy lands without making a new character. Some of us believe the more open the gameworld the better and not having arbitrary barriers imposed. If all it takes to get into enemy land is to sneak in, then cool. But that is probably not the case. Sounds like they are going the "Just can't go there" route.

This is all a moot point, though. My whole point was that having designated factions that each race is FORCED into is not Elder Scrolls. You may recall that as a Norn I could side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks and was not bound by race to fight for one or the other. That whole choice being removed is generally against the Elder Scrolls formula of being open as far as those types of choices.

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

This again? Tell me again you can go to morrowind in skyrim. And do tell me about your wonderful adventures in skyrim when you played Oblivion. Or that time that you started Morrowind and you went dragon hunting in Skyrim and then you sold their skin in Cyrodil...

Understand this... factions are at war. When you're AT WAR with someone, you dont go strolling through their lands picking flowers and looking at their capital - Its so weird that people can't grasp the idea that you CANT cross the border into enemy territory if you're at war with them - is it too hard to grasp such a concept? Get near their walls... they shoot you down - end of story - and that you will be able to do... get to their walls and be shot like a rabid dog. Because you're the enemy... you dont go "have fun in the enemy's lands" just like you dont want to see the enemy in your own land...

This even applies to real life... and you dont even have to be at war, just a slight different life-style - go ahead and take a trip to South Korea... then take a stroll to the North, go pick flowers and dance around their fields /wave to their troops while doing so - please tell me how it went.

My god...

So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?

The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".

You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?

And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?

My God!

Originally posted by Maelwydd

So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?

1. In past TES games the factions were NOT at war - all out OPEN war.

2. Yes. There are no trades between 2 countries at war - actually trading is the second thing to break - the first are embassies. Are you new to history?

The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".

Did you read the part where the Orcs join the Bretons because they promised their land back? Familiar with the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept?

You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?

No. Not if they want their lands back and the alternative is being homeless and left alone fighting against 2 major factions PLUS the faction that offered you help - might as well sign the suicide note.

And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?

1. Well there were LOTS of jews in the nazi front lines, including 100+ officers and highly ranked members of the 3 branches of the nazi war machine not to include the ones that worked for the regime as snitches and spies to get their own people into cozy chambers - still your comment didnt make sense. Even if I want to go down that road, I could answer "no... some of them thought it would be a great idea to fight the german war machine so they picked the road to auschwitz" - some had a choice, some didnt... I dont understand this Jew/ Nazi Germany example... please explain a little better what you're trying to say regarding that issue so I can give a proper answer - I dont quite understand the question / example

2. No. Not every american thought going to vietnam was a good idea, thats why they stayed in their homeland and DIDNT go to vietnam.

My God!

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Originally posted by Maelwydd

So answer me this....did every member of each race live ONLY in their own homelands or were there perhaps those that lived in other area's? Is ther any trade between these regions and if so would all trade stop?

1. In past TES games the factions were NOT at war - all out OPEN war.

Skyrim is pretty much 2 factions at war in the entire map. Even as a Nord you didn't have to join the fight.

2. Yes. There are no trades between 2 countries at war - actually trading is the second thing to break - the first are embassies. Are you new to history?

I give you that with the way the game is designed trade between certain regions would be restricted. But remember, as the game is designed the factions have agreed that Cryodil is where the fight will take place. So why would trade outside the warzone be affected completely?

The only reason you can't cross the border is becuase tehy have split the map, forced each race into a faction and allow for no exceptions. Remove race locked factions and bingo, no problem with borders. You have 3 houses fighting for control of the crown looking to gain allies in the fight. Some might be from their own region such as the Breton lord having lots of Breton guilds but you really think EVERY Orc will sit by and say "sure lets help the Bretons, tehy have only persecuted us as long as we have been on the same continent".

Did you read the part where the Orcs join the Bretons because they promised their land back? Familiar with the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept?

And I asked did you think it was believeable that ALL Orcs would join the fight alongside the Bretons? I personally was thinking of making an Orc who hated the alliance and treted any Orc that joined the Alliance as a traitor. An Orc doesn't bargain for land he takes it! But with faction lock I cannot even use that character concept. The design wants us to believe that absolutely no Orc in the entire kingdom has turned around and refused to take the cowards act and join with the Bretons. THAT is unbelieveable.

You don't think it is more believeable that some groups of Orcs would fight against the Breton lords?

No. Not if they want their lands back and the alternative is being homeless and left alone fighting against 2 major factions PLUS the faction that offered you help - might as well sign the suicide note.

Or....join one of the other factions and fight against the Bretons, win the war, get your land back the honorable way through arms and conflict. The way Orcs, and their GOD, do it and want it to be done.

And if you want to quote real life lets take your real life example. You really thing that many Jewish people born and bred in Germany thought fighting along side the germans was a good idea? Hell justing the Vietnam did every American think "fighting for their country was a good idea?

1. Well there were LOTS of jews in the nazi front lines, including 100+ officers and highly ranked members of the 3 branches of the nazi war machine not to include the ones that worked for the regime as snitches and spies to get their own people into cozy chambers - still your comment didnt make sense. Even if I want to go down that road, I could answer "no... some of them thought it would be a great idea to fight the german war machine so they picked the road to auschwitz" - some had a choice, some didnt... I dont understand this Jew/ Nazi Germany example... please explain a little better what you're trying to say regarding that issue so I can give a proper answer - I dont quite understand the question / example

OK simple really. TESO tells us 100% of all Bretons for example fight for their country. 100% of Orcs and 100% of Redguards too. No one defected, stood down, refuses to fight, flees or turns spy. In the context of the 2nd world war was it the case that 100% of German Jews fought alongside the Germans or did some fight, some flee and some die to the Germans. If you are struggling it is the later. The game though is stating that the former is more believeable.

2. No. Not every american thought going to vietnam was a good idea, thats why they stayed in their homeland and DIDNT go to vietnam.

Exaclty. Even though they were American and America said "we are at war with Vietnam, not EVERYONE fought or got involved. Some fled the country, some didn't get drafted....each person had the free will and the option, even thought it might be harmful to them, to choose to fight or not. The game states that even though you might not want to fight, not agree with the fight, might want to flee your homeland because of the fight or any other reason...sorry not possible.

My God!