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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Doing it differently

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33 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/31/13 5:58:36 AM#21
There's downside to other designs too. Witness tsws chummyness in pve leading to trading in pvp.
Witness gw2s lack of rivalry and long term playability
Witness swtor shitefest called illum and all the cheats that took advantage of being able to cross faction.
  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1811

1/31/13 7:23:13 AM#22

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/31/13 7:31:06 AM#23
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

And the crazy thing is you could do all of what the OP suggested, all of what you suggested and still, if you really, really wanted, have 3 faction pvp in Cyrodil. Each faction could join one of the major houses and all the politics that could go into getting a faction to change sides or where 2 factions fall out so is the faction or house loyalties more important.

Only problem is, we are not the people being asked to be the creative ones or to design a system that fits both lore, the franchise and gameplay.

  Nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 1267

1/31/13 7:44:39 AM#24
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

And the crazy thing is you could do all of what the OP suggested, all of what you suggested and still, if you really, really wanted, have 3 faction pvp in Cyrodil. Each faction could join one of the major houses and all the politics that could go into getting a faction to change sides or where 2 factions fall out so is the faction or house loyalties more important.

Only problem is, we are not the people being asked to be the creative ones or to design a system that fits both lore, the franchise and gameplay.

If only this was the actual game we were getting.

How to post links.

"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/31/13 8:01:38 AM#25
You've just described daocs ffa servers. Like I've said the problem isn't rvr, the problem is this mega server. If they didn't have the mega server, they could have core/ffa/coop server setup from daoc and satisfy more people. Core for those that like both pve and pvp but like them separate, ffa for people who thought they were getting darkfall with a big budget, coop for people who thought it would be the second coming of everquest.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 6188

1/31/13 8:07:50 AM#26
to the OP, i'd much prefer your idea than the one zenimax came up with, its not only more in keeping with TES, but it would allow groups of friends to choose the races they wanted, and still be able to play together.
  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 841

1/31/13 8:15:07 AM#27
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

And the crazy thing is you could do all of what the OP suggested, all of what you suggested and still, if you really, really wanted, have 3 faction pvp in Cyrodil. Each faction could join one of the major houses and all the politics that could go into getting a faction to change sides or where 2 factions fall out so is the faction or house loyalties more important.

Only problem is, we are not the people being asked to be the creative ones or to design a system that fits both lore, the franchise and gameplay.

If only this was the actual game we were getting.

That is so true, who said that the Developers have to create the factions and lock the players to them, isn't that the reason why we have Guilds.

Guilds should lead to rivary, in an Themepark game, the developer can create an General Three struggling powers, but leave the rest to the Guilds that will populate the Game world.

Time and Time again, Gamers have proven that they put more pride and time into their guilds than any made up factions.

Alliances, betrayal, Epic battles can all happen with Guilds. The guilds leader can choose the factions they support, choose their rivary and fight. That would be more fun than race locked factions anyday.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Vorgarag109

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 13

1/31/13 8:21:01 AM#28
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

Your System is one I Enjoy most and has been done before

however the problem with it is. People Need their Hands Held they have no idea what to do with so much freedom in a Game. They just complain. about how everyone is killing them or how its so hard since they can't find groups or fit in any community

Alot of People just don't do well in a Free for all MMO Fantasy world. Since ESO is also trying to bring in the Singleplayer player base that is from TES  those players would struggle with fitting into said world.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1811

1/31/13 11:43:30 AM#29
Originally posted by Vorgarag109
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'll throw OP's questions out of the window and instead introduce my own:

Why in the name of Seven Hells does it need to be 3 (or 2 or 5 or whatever pre-set number) factions?

Why cannot the players create the factions themselves and decide who they fight and why?

 

Player factions are superior in almost all aspects imaginable to pre-set factions, both for the devs and the players.

1. Any "realm pride" or "faction pride" will be vastly overshadowed by pride for your own community/guild/alliance.

2. Player factions do not have to restrict any of the content in the game if they don't want to.

3. Player factions can choose their enemies and friends themselves, as well as the reasons for being enemies or friends.

4. Player factions will balance out much more efficiently than pre-set factions, because the alliances between the factions are fluid and not set in stone.

5. Player factions enable players to form sub-communities within the game, for example for roleplaying purposes.

 

Your System is one I Enjoy most and has been done before

however the problem with it is. People Need their Hands Held they have no idea what to do with so much freedom in a Game. They just complain. about how everyone is killing them or how its so hard since they can't find groups or fit in any community

Alot of People just don't do well in a Free for all MMO Fantasy world. Since ESO is also trying to bring in the Singleplayer player base that is from TES  those players would struggle with fitting into said world.

Well the thing is, faction based PvP and FFA don't have to be tied together. You can have a faction based game with consensual PvP. Just make PvP areas where you fight over resources or W/E where PvP is always possible, but also create areas where PvP needs a mutual acceptance from both parties involved to be allowed (mutual war dec between guilds/alliances, duels, arenas, etc.)

Best of both (all) worlds.

People who don't want to PvP at all can stay in the PvE areas. People who want to PvP only enemies they want to fight can found their own "war rings" with other similar thinking guilds and stay in the PvE area.  People who want to PvP everyone can go to the PvP area and gank/fight/blob all they want.

Everyone can play the way they want to, with or without PvP. No need for different ruleset servers. No need for players to create X characters just to see the whole world. No need for devs to try to keep a faction balance.

  DSWBeef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 800

1/31/13 2:31:27 PM#30
I really like the Idea. Im actually surprise by the poll. I thought the "yes" was gonna be way ahead.

Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  1/31/13 4:08:43 PM#31
Originally posted by DSWBeef
I really like the Idea. Im actually surprise by the poll. I thought the "yes" was gonna be way ahead.

You and I both lol...

I guess the DAOC gravity well has people locked down. My suggestion has all the advantages people rave about in that AND freedom.

Still - we'll see if it works or not soon enough...

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/31/13 4:24:43 PM#32

I wonder.

 

If they had anounced that DAOC2 was being released and had 2 way optional PvP with instanced battles and a heavy focus, say an 80% PvE 20% PvP design, if these same people claiming "TESO is great it's gonna be DOAC2" would stay quiet about the design for the game. I doubt it.

If you have an expectation for a game, not for some pie in the sky expectation but a realistic one, and the game doesn't even come close I feel it is a very normal thing to speak out about it. Certainly when, as you have shown here, that you can keep the central trust and direction of the game without making such drastic changes that the very essence of the game has to change.

If fact, your ideas serve to enhance the principles of a TES game and actually make it meet the needs of an MMO without changing any core tick box that TES should have.

I too hope the devs realise that they don't need to be so restrictive, can have their 3 way faction PvP AND produce a game truely worth the TESO title.

 

EDIT - And if they truely are just about the enter into Beta and it isn't just publicity then they will have to listen if enough people say it doesn't work, afterall that is what is for. And who know, perhaps the Beta testers have already said something about it and it is something we don't need to worry about. We can hope.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/31/13 5:08:48 PM#33
Actually Mael, that would be better than most modern mmos with their 95% pve design.

Also instead of trying to break the rvr system, you would be better asking for coop servers which would be right up your street. The megaserver is the problem it only allows for one ruleset and the ruleset on it (core) will get broken by this mega server tech anyway.

I don't know why they haven't copied daoc server system which othered something for all player types. Core for those that like both pve and pvp but with pvp on their own terms and a strong faction pride. Ffa for those that like the risk of pvp everywhere, guild based pvp. Core for those who want to group with anyone, go everywhere and don't care about pvp.
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