Originally posted by Burntvet

Says the man/company that ran every P2P MMO they ever produced into the ground, by neglect, ineptitude, and mismanagement. Even the ones that "accidentally" started out well.

"Yeah.. it must be the business model..."

Dumbass.

Plenty of people pay for WoW, Eve, and other games.

SOE has just not put out any game worth paying for in the last 5-6 years.

 

People are tired of paying for "mediocre" games and for the next "clone with a twist."

That does not mean there is anything wrong with the sub model, just the offerings.

 

That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

Thread should have ended right here

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Burntvet

Says the man/company that ran every P2P MMO they ever produced into the ground, by neglect, ineptitude, and mismanagement. Even the ones that "accidentally" started out well.

"Yeah.. it must be the business model..."

Dumbass.

Plenty of people pay for WoW, Eve, and other games.

SOE has just not put out any game worth paying for in the last 5-6 years.

 

People are tired of paying for "mediocre" games and for the next "clone with a twist."

That does not mean there is anything wrong with the sub model, just the offerings.

 

That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

Thread should have ended right here

barring a few comedic counter points, it did

P2P games will still exist if developers can put out a game worth paying for.  Games don't NEED 12 million subscribers (it'd sure be nice though) to turn a profit.

I played FFXI and FFXIV, and while FFXIV didn't turn out so well in its first incarnation, FFXI is SE's most profitable game ever, and I don't think it's ever peaked over 1 million concurrent subscribers.  10 years after its launch and it's still P2P.  It's estimated there's still over 200,000 people still playing it.

F2P games suffer from the fact that they will only be as good as people are willing to spend money on "extras".  If the game isn't making money, updates won't be forthcoming and you'll end up with nothing to do really quickly and move on to the next game.  At least with a good P2P game, steady cash will keep flowing in and regular updates will be made to keep the game enjoyable.

Originally posted by Phelcher

EQNext will be subscription base only... and demand a high premium ($20/month)

SMed talk about item/cash shops, etc..  was where he thought social gaming was going..   EQnext wasn't included in that sentiment.

 

 

 

 

 

I bet it will go F2P within a year, if it indeed starts with a sub.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Rayshe
Sony has practically dragged everyone one of their games passed everquest into the ground, and then dragged it far enough that the skin peeled off miles ago. They can't say anything about what the best payment style is, They fail at both P2P and F2P.

And yet somehow i always end up playing SOE MMOS more than any other so called AAA MMOS on the market. Even now i am subbed to EQ2 and Vanguard and no MMO in market can touch these two MMOS when it comes to content and features especially EQ2.

Its funny that how failure is defined on these forums. yes SOE screwed up with SWG but even then i put thousands of hours in that game past NGE because there was nothing like it on the market. it had a long 7 years before it was put down to rest. I won't call it a failure.

Vanguard was in such a bad shape after release that no company would touch it so when SOE took over they actually did a favor to Sigil because only other option was to shut it down. Do i blame SOE for not dumping more money in to the game that no one wanted to play? they kept it alive and that is more than enough for me otherwise i would never get a chance to play that gem.

And who in their right mind can call EQ2 a failure? 8 years and still going strong with 9 expansions under its belt and more to come soon, with amount of content that can put any MMO in market to shame. Entire game oozes of personality and quality.

So what games exactly except for SWG they screwed up so bad that they dragged everyone off? i think a little resonable opinion is in order without emotional outbursts and exaggeration.

I have to ageree. I think even when EQ2 rolled out, it was a very good game. The big draw back vs WoW was the heavy instanced world vs WoW's seamless world. WoW was also built more towards the easy solo player path, where EQ2 definately required grouping for much of the content. Some gamers do not want to group and like their content to be something they can blast through.

As long as Publishers are mainly concerned with best profits (which most will be) I doubt we see any game that will have the challenge of what EQ or EQ2 offered. Now most gamers are more concerned with PvP setup because PvP is really the only time a player gets challenged. Difficult PvE content, is just not something that attracts the masses, and F2P usually goes hand in hand with easy content,

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Phelcher

EQNext will be subscription base only... and demand a high premium ($20/month)

SMed talk about item/cash shops, etc..  was where he thought social gaming was going..   EQnext wasn't included in that sentiment.

I bet it will go F2P within a year, if it indeed starts with a sub.

He's making that up Narius just to get a response.  EQN won't be sub-locked.

Originally posted by nbtscan

P2P games will still exist if developers can put out a game worth paying for.  Games don't NEED 12 million subscribers (it'd sure be nice though) to turn a profit.

I played FFXI and FFXIV, and while FFXIV didn't turn out so well in its first incarnation, FFXI is SE's most profitable game ever, and I don't think it's ever peaked over 1 million concurrent subscribers.  10 years after its launch and it's still P2P.  It's estimated there's still over 200,000 people still playing it.

F2P games suffer from the fact that they will only be as good as people are willing to spend money on "extras".  If the game isn't making money, updates won't be forthcoming and you'll end up with nothing to do really quickly and move on to the next game.  At least with a good P2P game, steady cash will keep flowing in and regular updates will be made to keep the game enjoyable.

Did EQ ever exceed 500K subs? Personally, I would rather have 500K at a $3o a month sub if the game offered dynamic content and my $30 paid for a continuous stream of fresh content.

Originally posted by TheScavenger

 

With that said...I think pay to play MMOs will probably become a niche and free to plays will become the norm. Even path of exiles, a truly free game...has made a lot of money from their VANITY cash shop.

 

 

Sounds like the quality of future games will be crap if this cheesy f2p gameplay concept gets introduced in most games.

Originally posted by Phelcher
Narius..

You did not play everquest before WoW. Dont forget i've read your post history.. u started playing mmorpgs in 2006.
 

Is this true, Mr. Seldon? Has everything been a lie? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Phelcher
Narius..

You did not play everquest before WoW. Dont forget i've read your post history.. u started playing mmorpgs in 2006.
 

Is this true, Mr. Seldon? Has everything been a lie? Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

LOL .. you trust somone telling you something about another person anonymous on the internet?

I started playing MMO with Kingdom of Drakkar, a $2 per HOUR game. Then UO beta (horribly game). Then EQ for 1 year and so on.

But you don't have to believe anything. It is just chit-chat on the internet.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Phelcher

EQNext will be subscription base only... and demand a high premium ($20/month)

SMed talk about item/cash shops, etc..  was where he thought social gaming was going..   EQnext wasn't included in that sentiment.

I bet it will go F2P within a year, if it indeed starts with a sub.

He's making that up Narius just to get a response.  EQN won't be sub-locked.

And he got one! Good for him. However, i did put an "ignore" on him .. since he is mostly a troll flinging personal insults.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Phelcher
Narius..

You did not play everquest before WoW. Dont forget i've read your post history.. u started playing mmorpgs in 2006.
 

Is this true, Mr. Seldon? Has everything been a lie? Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

LOL .. you trust somone telling you something about another person anonymous on the internet?

I started playing MMO with Kingdom of Drakkar, a $2 per HOUR game. Then UO beta (horribly game). Then EQ for 1 year and so on.

But you don't have to believe anything. It is just chit-chat on the internet.

 

I wasn't "believing" anything, hence the question marks.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Phelcher
Narius..

You did not play everquest before WoW. Dont forget i've read your post history.. u started playing mmorpgs in 2006.
 

Is this true, Mr. Seldon? Has everything been a lie? Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

LOL .. you trust somone telling you something about another person anonymous on the internet?

I started playing MMO with Kingdom of Drakkar, a $2 per HOUR game. Then UO beta (horribly game). Then EQ for 1 year and so on.

But you don't have to believe anything. It is just chit-chat on the internet.

 

I wasn't "believing" anything, hence the question marks.

Sure. And you got my answer. You can choose to believe, or not.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cecropia

I wasn't "believing" anything, hence the question marks.

Sure. And you got my answer. You can choose to believe, or not.

A quick check of your early post history does confirm that you say you played EQ for at least a year.

The funny thing I found, though, is this quote regarding EQ: "I wonder if my char is still around. I am mightily tempted, like you, to go back in and see if I can take my char for a spin through the world."

Interesting to note, that at one point, you seemed to enjoy the virtual world aspect of MMORPGs. You always maintain how much you did not enjoy these types of things in your games and how we`d all be better off somehow without them. Fascinating.

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Burntvet

Says the man/company that ran every P2P MMO they ever produced into the ground, by neglect, ineptitude, and mismanagement. Even the ones that "accidentally" started out well.

"Yeah.. it must be the business model..."

Dumbass.

Plenty of people pay for WoW, Eve, and other games.

SOE has just not put out any game worth paying for in the last 5-6 years.

 

People are tired of paying for "mediocre" games and for the next "clone with a twist."

That does not mean there is anything wrong with the sub model, just the offerings.

 

That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

Thread should have ended right here

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Originally posted by winter
...SOE...Perhaps their motto should be Games by Idiots for idiots... Can't do math? Good we want you as a customer. Sony.

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I love it! ROFL

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Originally posted by nariusseldon
...i use to have a "home" in EQ, and then WOW. I found that very limiting and too much focus on one game...

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Would you rather read ten pages out of thirty books, or read one book in its entirety?

Originally posted by Arclan

 

Would you rather read ten pages out of thirty books, or read one book in its entirety?

 Good think it's not an either/or choice.  I do both.  A new book I'll finish in about a day or two.  Old books I read bits and peices of them.