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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

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94 posts found
  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

1/31/13 6:22:45 AM#21
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by SpectralHunter

My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

 

Obvious snarky remarks aside...

Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

 

Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

Neverwinter Online was first graphic MMORPG released in 1991 by SSI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(MMORPG)

It was Bioware who kinda ruined the "original vision" of the first Neverwinter game. Are you really sure that Cryptic is promoting their game to be the direct successor to Bioware's NWN or the original SSI one?

REALITY CHECK

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4080

1/31/13 6:28:37 AM#22
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by SpectralHunter

My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

 

Obvious snarky remarks aside...

Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

 

Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

I'm thinking Wizards of the Coast, those who own the D&D IP, make the call on what the game is titled.  Since it's the most popular name of the Forgotten Realms video games it doesn't surprise me that they are using the same name to drive sales.  It's not cynical, it's called marketing.  That being said, if the game does well, I can totally see expansion packs expanding the game world and bringing us the other not so known locations such as Waterdeep, Silver Moon, and Menzoberannzan.

So, personally I see no "disengenious" action from Cryptic at all, seeing as they aren't alone in this boat and have to go through the proper channels to even use the IP.  I'm thinking they pitched the Foundry to Wizards of the Coast, and WotC liked that they are keeping player made content in relation to their IP so they gave the green light.  That's just a guess on my part, though.

Can't wait to play the game and I've played the pen and paper version and the old Neverwinter Nights.  I just love the Forgotten Realms setting and want a viable if not awesome game to play within those realms.

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  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

1/31/13 6:28:52 AM#23
As someone who played both NWN 1 and 2 and made modules, coded, scripted and built many adventures the foundry looks awesome. As someone who played a lot of AD&D the IP and setting/world are great. Watching the trickster rouge and control wizard class videos was painful. Watching the founders pack video made me never want to touch this.

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  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/31/13 6:30:51 AM#24
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

Honest question with no malice.

 Yes... and?

Why are you looking forward to playing ArcheAge so much?  To me it looks like a horrible game with Eastern Art, bland old and out dated tab targetting combat. 

 That's cool, I can respect your personal tastes. I am not offended by them.

Why is sandbox features the only systems that are allowed to propagate the MMO genre?  To me it features boring and grindy gameplay elements that shouldn't even be called gameplay.  I mean if I want to mine, farm or build something I do it in real life where it has meaning but to do it in a game seems asanine to me.

Like I say, that's cool.

But, to be fair, I didn't give any personal opinions about NW's systems or how boring the game looks.

To me AA is not an honest way to do business because it promotes nothing fun and everything boring, I see it as a pretty cynical way to do business.

 Well, boring (to you) isn't the same as 'dishonest' is it?

You seem to be reaching for something here...

As a side question would you be excited for ArcheAge if it was setup as a linear WoW clone with none of the sandbox elements?  WOuld the game itself holdup to what you are looking for?  Would you care about it anymore then a random P2W asian title?  Try to answer honestly if you can.

I agree AA has strong WoW elements, and I agree a lot of it's levelling path looks extremely linear... I don't know why you assume that dosen't appeal to me.

The game isn't selling itself on someone else's work as far as I can see... it dosen't have a popular IP that it is exploiting to fool the gullible into thinking it is part of some unbroken line.

I also have no idea why you think I am *so* excited for AA... Is it because I am following it on my fav games list? If so, you have leapt to the wrong conclusions. I actually am pretty neutral about the game and am just following it out of curiosity right now.

In the end, AA *is* a random Asian title (is it P2W? Or is that just a random attempt to defame it?), but it is a random Asian title that is so far elevating itslef above the herd by it's own merits.

You see my questions probobly sound silly to you jsut as much as your questions sound silly to me. 

No, my questions are legitimate... yours are a reaching effort to try and use AA to prove a failed point.

Instead of throwing up all this white noise and avoiding actually engaging in the questions asked, maybe actually add something worthwhile? Just a thought.

The truth of the matter is people like different things and questioning peoples wishes and desires are an idiotic thing to do IMO.

This has nothing to do with people liking different things... You seem to be arguing and point that no one else is talking about. This is me asking, quite clearly, what has this actually got to do with NWN or D&D?

The answer seems to be, after all is said and done, not a lot.

So I ask, is this an honest way to do business? Trading on unrelated successful IPs I mean?

 

  fs23otm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/07
Posts: 257

1/31/13 6:46:21 AM#25

Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

WoW was just a skin of Warcraft on an MMO body. 

 

The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers. 

Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books.

TESO is shaping up to be a great game. I am seeing people complain that it is not true to TES, but it is. You could only explore small kingdoms in the TES games, no different then you can in ESO.

  Silverthorn8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/08
Posts: 481

1/31/13 6:48:29 AM#26

It's actually all the nerdy stuff, like dice rolls and statistical data that were prevalent in the black isle/bioware games that let you know you was playing a d&d game.

I'll wager this is missing in the forthcoming title.

Nothing better than seeing why you failed to spot a trap or disarm one. If this sort of stuff is in then I'll swallow these words :)

One of the things I loved about nwn was when you got a new weapon, and it had for example, an acid or lightning damage effect was watching the numbers in green or blue show in the bottom right screen area. I bet all you'll see in neverwinter is the ubiquitous floating combat text/numbers as seen in most modern mmo/arpg's.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/31/13 6:48:41 AM#27
Originally posted by fs23otm

Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers.

Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books

 

Well, no.

BG actually used quite a lot of the D&D core mechanics. D&D itself is, ofc, turn based.

And, yes, we *know* that NW has nothing to do with NWN... that's kind of the point of the whole htread.

The part in green... who is putting anything down? I am asking questions... not my fault if those questions are uncomfortable for you to answer directly.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/31/13 6:52:34 AM#28
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

Totally no malice at all. Nope nope.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/31/13 6:54:21 AM#29
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

1/31/13 7:00:54 AM#30
Originally posted by fs23otm

Baldur's Gate was just a FR skin on a Age old gameplay of topdown turn based genre.

WoW was just a skin of Warcraft on an MMO body. 

 

The truth is people who put games down without playing them are idiots. Their opinions mean nothing. These are the same people who judge books by there covers. 

Neverwinter has nothing to do with the other Neverwinter Nights games. It is the most popular area in FR because of Salvatore books.

TESO is shaping up to be a great game. I am seeing people complain that it is not true to TES, but it is. You could only explore small kingdoms in the TES games, no different then you can in ESO.

It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap.

Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does.

Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???

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  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

1/31/13 8:36:06 AM#31
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game.  Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

People just need to get their panties out of a bundle when it doesn't live up to expectations or how it's not a direct translation.  I accept that IP MMOs are MMOs first and foremost and all are inspired by the IP but will be a different game entirely.  As long as the game is fun then I'll play.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

1/31/13 12:16:07 PM#32
Originally posted by nilden
...

It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap.

Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does.

Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???

you need to check your facts first.

First of all, the series you are talking about is an orange - Neverwinter Nights. See the Nights behind it? It is because WotC didn't allow it to sell as Neverwinter - because WotC owns Neverwinter - they own Faerun too.

This is apple. This is red. This is called Dungeons and Dragons:Neverwinter

 

Neverwinter Nights was not the first game in Neverwinter city. WotC also allowed "Neverwinter Online" before Neverwinter Nights.

 

Its fine and all if you are Neverwinter Nights, but don't bring your own scales and put Oranges when people are talking about apples.

 

Meet Guavas - the Baldur's Gate series.

There are Kiwis too - the Planescape Torment Series.

 

Choose the fruit you like. If you want orange, go and wait for a Neverwinter Nights 3, with "Nights" in them because they cannot have real awesome shiny title like "Neverwinter". And it might not be true - i.e. may not be canon unlike our apple.

 

Apples Win win!!!

  Blasphim

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/11
Posts: 347

Darkness is Death's ignorance, and the Devil's time

1/31/13 12:33:22 PM#33


Originally posted by gillrmn

Originally posted by nilden

...
It's not about judging a book by it's cover, we have tons of videos and information. It's about not having to step in dog crap to know it's dog crap. Neverwinter has nothing to do with Neverwinter, only it does. Obviously ESO is a TES game because you could only explore small kingdoms. OR IS IT???
you need to check your facts first.

First of all, the series you are talking about is an orange - Neverwinter Nights. See the Nights behind it? It is because WotC didn't allow it to sell as Neverwinter - because WotC owns Neverwinter - they own Faerun too.

This is apple. This is red. This is called Dungeons and Dragons:Neverwinter

 

Neverwinter Nights was not the first game in Neverwinter city. WotC also allowed "Neverwinter Online" before Neverwinter Nights.

 

Its fine and all if you are Neverwinter Nights, but don't bring your own scales and put Oranges when people are talking about apples.

 

Meet Guavas - the Baldur's Gate series.

There are Kiwis too - the Planescape Torment Series.

 

Choose the fruit you like. If you want orange, go and wait for a Neverwinter Nights 3, with "Nights" in them because they cannot have real awesome shiny title like "Neverwinter". And it might not be true - i.e. may not be canon unlike our apple.

 

Apples Win win!!!


You forgot peaches: The Icewind Dale games :)

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

1/31/13 2:43:12 PM#34
Originally posted by Blasphim

 


...

 

You forgot peaches: The Icewind Dale games :)

Sorry for that :)

 

And the Daggerdale - which was absolutely bananas!

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/31/13 7:45:03 PM#35
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game. 

So you are following this game simply because of the D&D brand, even though it actually has no D&D in it past a FR skin?

Interesting, if a little confusing to me on the outside.

I love D&D, have played it since I was 11 and got the red box, but I don't feel the same way as you do about this I must admit.

Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

Well, no... those people are looking for an actual play mechanic... that is completely different then following a game because of a brand slapped on it.

 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2660

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 10:52:07 PM#36
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

Yes.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2660

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 10:58:47 PM#37
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

Probobly not.  If the game looks great then yeah, if not then no.  The Duneons and Dragons IP is what keeps me coming back to DDO even though it's a pretty shitty MMO, holding out on update 17 for Neverwinter.  I love the lore and setting of FR and many aspects of D&D which is why I will check out every D&D game. 

So you are following this game simply because of the D&D brand, even though it actually has no D&D in it past a FR skin? Nope followinjg it for a myriad of reasons, the main one is it isnt a sandbox.

Interesting, if a little confusing to me on the outside. confusing to you but not to me.

I love D&D, have played it since I was 11 and got the red box, but I don't feel the same way as you do about this I must admit. im following the game because it has action combat in a D&D universe with the lore and some elements that make the forgotten realms my favorite source material.  Ohh it also has the Foundry, the one thing that will keep fresh content flowing at a steady and daily pace.  You see all I want out of a game is to be able to perpetually run dungeons and collect loot (basically an ARPG or Diablo style game)  but within the context of an MMO using WASD movement, 3rd person perspective and a hotbar for skills and abilities.  SO in my estimation NWO has everything I look for in an MMO except for meaningful housing systems (which Isnt a deal breaker).  If the game was set in another dark gritty midevil style fantasy I would follow it jsut as much, but then IMO it wouldnt do quite as well because an IP especially a good IP will help sell the game more so then a generic fantasy game.

Same reason why some people will swallow a shit sandbox like Darkfall or Archeage, because it has sandbox and PvP elements.

Well, no... those people are looking for an actual play mechanic... that is completely different then following a game because of a brand slapped on it. no its not, maybe to you but not to me.  everyone is different.

 

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  User Deleted
1/31/13 10:59:47 PM#38

It has the rights that it purchased to use the IP and setting?

Neverwinter is a setting in Dungeons and Dragons. The game by Cryptic will be set in Neverwinter, and will follow the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset. See where I am going with this?

Neverwinter Nights was another game set in Neverwinter, using the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset. Pretty much anyone with any knowledge of that game or even Dungeons and Dragons in general knows that they are not made by the same developers.

Just like over the years many people have used the Star Wars IP. But noone thinks that the same people who made Star Wars: The Old Republic also made Star Wars Galaxies, dispite them both having Star Wars in the title....

  User Deleted
1/31/13 11:09:43 PM#39
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Vesavius

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 

I apologise for quoting myself, but no one has yet directly answered this and I am interested.

If Cryptic had just launched the game as a generic fantasy MMORPG with no known IP or the ability to connect it to an older much loved title would you even be looking at it as a fan?

Yes. The IP means nearly nothing to me, aside from being a good starting point for classes and beastiary.

What interests me about this game is the following, which is largely irrelevant to the IP:

- Action combat that has amazing animations and looks fluid

- Trinity based classes (so that my friend will play with me, refuses to play anything but healer)

- Player generated content

- Fantasy setting, which is slightly linked to the IP, but could have been accomplished in other ways

  Shaudius

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/04
Posts: 4

2/01/13 1:18:11 AM#40
Originally posted by nilden
As someone who played both NWN 1 and 2 and made modules, coded, scripted and built many adventures the foundry looks awesome. As someone who played a lot of AD&D the IP and setting/world are great. Watching the trickster rouge and control wizard class videos was painful. Watching the founders pack video made me never want to touch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pn7iU4EwTc

The foundry preview(which you've probably seen but perhaps others haven't) is a great palete cleanser for that awful founders pack video.

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