Blizzard did a poll years back......

They found that the amount of hardcore pvp'ers were approx the same as hardcore pve'ers (progression raiders).  IIRC, those values were around 4% each.

The majority were casual pve only crowd.  Then PvX followed second.

Originally posted by Konfess
The real culprit are the FPS games & FPS gamers. If they had any skill at he fps They would still be playing them, but this group doesn’t have the skill to play FPS. So they have come to MMORPG is hopes of finding less skilled players than themselves.

You can identify these people by the demand for pvp in forums, their complaints about rpg combat being “face roll” and a demand for a more action (FPS) style of combat. Other buzz words used by gamers who prefer FPS is the need for more dynamic events and NPCs. These players failed at Far Gear’s of Modern Duty, but are hoping to find some acknowledgement of their skill. Skill they clearly don’t have, in MMORPG’s.

FPSs are mostly played on consoles, the commonality of hardware leaves only skill as the deciding factor in victory (usually). In that setting the failed FPS player has no hope of achieving the notoriety they falsely believe they deserve. After abandoning FPS in shame, they try PC based MMORPG. The diversity of hardware configuration assures them that there will be some whose hardware negates their skill and gives the FPS gamer a chance to win at pvp.

When the FPS gamer continues to fail at pvp, they turn to ganking. Their reasoning, pve players clearly are not good at pvp and are easy targets. Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything.

Then they turn into basement dwellers. lol

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Xpowder
"originally mmos were strictly pve"


No they weren't.

You should perhaps read what I said. I did say pvp was more a side thing. As most mmos during that time were pve  heavy and pvp more secondary. Also as someone who played Asherons Call, Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies. Pvp was designed only if you wanted it. Other than that, it was all pve! The only mmorpg at the time that had limited pvp was UO.

Do not get me wrong, I love PVP much more than I do pve elements with the current genre of mmorpgs. But originally MMORPGs were PVE top heavy. To deny it either shows your age, or you have not played those titles in the early years of mmorpgs.

Originally posted by Scottgun

Originally posted by Konfess

 Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything.

As opposed to PvE'ers who are college professors.

LMAO just shows that college professors know how to play MMO's I will run with any college professor anyday in a raid at least he or she wont be some asshat and brag how uber they are or think they are. lmao

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Lokero

P.S. The reason no one shows good sportsmanship anymore, such as telling your opponent "Hey, great fight, man," or tips their hats in respect, is because games don't allow it.  The majority of games today don't allow you to communicate with your faction enemies, etc.  Makes me sad, I've had some great chats with folks in the past after a PvP battle, giving each other tips and showing appreciation for a great fight.

Not true in the e-sports game like SC2, or LOL, or even WOT. You can chat with anyone.

But they aren't MMO's, the thread is about MMO's as per its title, please try not to derail.

Meh I thought the thread was more geared at PVP vs PVE players with just MMO in the title since this is a MMO comunity. I dont see it as a derail.

Originally posted by Isturi

It seems that todays gamers are just for pvp and ganking anymore. It seems that lore and pve has taken a back seat with MMO gaming anymore. Do gamers of today even care about lore or pve or do they perfer to just get the game role a class and go out and try to gank someone for a cheap thrill? I get the impresion that DEV are catering most MMO games now to the pvp crowd.

Am I wrong?

 

There are very very few good PVP mmos, Darkfall is the only one that i would consider a pvp mmo, and then you have Path of exile with its cutthroat league which isnt in yet.

other games you're thinking of are themeparks with pvp features

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by SQTO

So what are these pvp centric mmorpgs ? I would love to try them.

 

I'm still trying to figure that out.  I asked about that earlier in the thread and didn't get much of an answer.  According to this site's game list, there have been about 250 games released since Jan 2008.  Of those which ones force PvP on the players... the only answer given was Aion.  That's 0.4% of the population.

How can anyone complain when they own 99% of the market share?

Eve Online has forced PvP.  Darkfall is forced PvP so is Mortal Online, Archeage seems like it will be (sad to say, otherwise I'd play it in a heartbeat), Age of Wushu/Wulin is forced PvP, and many games have PvP servers.

 

Personally, I'm not interested in either getting ganked all the time when out in the open world or having to run around with 20 people everywhere I go to not get ganked, so these games don't remotely appeal to me even though I love being able to go to an area with large scale PvP if and when I choose to.

Ok.  We're up to 3 games now.  Archeage doesn't count because it hasn't been released.

We're at 1.2% PvP vs 98.8% PvE.

I'm curious whether PvP can break 5%.

I agree PvPers get the short end of the stick when it comes to MMOs.  One reason why is we are a minority that is subdivided into smaller groups.  And those groups are often hostile to each other.  

 

Like full open world versus restricted areas and every category of that in between.  Like large scale versus small scale PvP, and solo versus group (this one is a big deal when these two are mixed because of what premades do to randoms).  

 

We are divided further by the things that divide other gamers, like sub-genre (fantasy, sci-fi, other).  So yeah, we don't have as much voice as pure PVE players.  And I believe our content is much harder and more costly to develop and maintain than your average dungeon grind for shinies PVE content.

WoW next patch is cataring to the pvp crowd. Both BG and open world so the number one MMO to date is going to focus big with 5.2 and everyone knows what is good enough for Wow is good enough for them.

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by RefMinor

But they aren't MMO's, the thread is about MMO's as per its title, please try not to derail.

Meh I thought the thread was more geared at PVP vs PVE players with just MMO in the title since this is a MMO comunity. I dont see it as a derail.

That's fair, but considering the poster he is responding to, his comment is completely understandable and justifiable.  

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by SQTO

So what are these pvp centric mmorpgs ? I would love to try them.

 

I'm still trying to figure that out.  I asked about that earlier in the thread and didn't get much of an answer.  According to this site's game list, there have been about 250 games released since Jan 2008.  Of those which ones force PvP on the players... the only answer given was Aion.  That's 0.4% of the population.

How can anyone complain when they own 99% of the market share?

Eve Online has forced PvP.  Darkfall is forced PvP so is Mortal Online, Archeage seems like it will be (sad to say, otherwise I'd play it in a heartbeat), Age of Wushu/Wulin is forced PvP, and many games have PvP servers.

 

Personally, I'm not interested in either getting ganked all the time when out in the open world or having to run around with 20 people everywhere I go to not get ganked, so these games don't remotely appeal to me even though I love being able to go to an area with large scale PvP if and when I choose to.

 

 

Don't forget about Anarchy Online end game being all about PvP or Warhammer Online.  There were also Lineage and Lineage II and now there is Planetside 2, Mechwarrior Online, Dust 514 and Hawken Online.  I'm sure if I did more research or you guys did a little yourselves (dave & SQTO), I'd find more or you'd realize you haven't a clue about what you're saying.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

WoW literally brought all the kids to the genre.

 

In the early days (UO, EQ, SWG, DAoC), most MMO gamers were "nerds" and adults. The overall attitude was mostly passive. There was still ganking etc, but it wasn't second nature to all.

WoW released. It was a much more dumbed down version of any MMO ever experienced. It wasn't bad or anything, but just simpler. It ended up spreading like wildfire within the middle school / high school community. [mod edit]

how is wow even related to the topic.  There isn't even much world pvp on pvp server.

Isn't Darkfall, Mortal, or Eve a more relevant game to be include in this discussion?

and I dont' think warhammer/daoc/planet side is related to this topic.  Because that is a completly rvr game.  No one play those game for the pve.

I couldn't read all of this forum.

PvE has been as mediocre as mediocre can be since WoW. By mediocre I mean spamming buttons, instances, no death penalty, fast paced, and fought by classes that aren't even really classes.  What "modern" MMO does something besides that?

Only 2 type of games now.  One is FFA pvp game  or realm vs realm game.  Another is dungeon/raid Pve game.

There really isn't any open world pve game out there.  Even if there are, developer just make it FFA full loot, and it becams a FFA pvp/ganking game.

You can blame wow for making other games in to a small world instanced dungeon/raid game.  And for the rest of the games that do have large open world, blame the players/developer to make it into a ganking game.

PvP is generally awful, but when PvE and PvP are done well, I will play both. DAoC had both pretty awesome back in the day, so I played both. Nowadays, I wouldn't touch DAoC, but still, if both are done right, I'll play both. In WoW, I play PvE 95% of the time, and do BG's very rarely when I'm REALLY bored.

Even GW2, I play PvE almost 100% of the time. When really bored, I'll do WvW, but it's pretty much crap.

PvE all the way!

It is not a question of PVPers being bad people or worse people than PVEers, etc.  It is simple mechanics.  A PVE focused player doesn't tend to affect the game play of others much or at all.  Aside from some types of griefing allowed by poor game design, e.g. ninja looting, training mobs, etc., the nasty PVEer can be easily avoided.

Not so the PVPer, since by its very essence PVP affects the gameplay of others.  So nasty people who PVP will have much more impact on a game community than PVEers.  That is why the vast majority of customer support time is spent trying to reign in PVP related misbehavior.

I also agree that the MMO community has changed over the years.  The initial lumping of everyone together in one game like UO is long gone.  People who want a fuller experience, e.g. who want to do other things than PVP all the time, now know to avoid games focused on PVP altogether.  This leaves a PVP community that is much narrower in its focus, younger in age, and generally more tolerant of trash talk and abuse as "just part of the game."

I don't see this segregation easing until companies succeed in marrying PVP into a game world so that it is meangful and part of a larger set of activities.  Games like Shadowbane and Darkfall are great for PVP lovers, but become boring one-trick ponies to players who want to do more than just chase each other around the rezz spot or grief-roll the map with their server-dominating zerg.

Originally posted by Ehliya

It is not a question of PVPers being bad people or worse people than PVEers, etc.  It is simple mechanics.  A PVE focused player doesn't tend to affect the game play of others much or at all.  Aside from some types of griefing allowed by poor game design, e.g. ninja looting, training mobs, etc., the nasty PVEer can be easily avoided.

Not so the PVPer, since by its very essence PVP affects the gameplay of others.  So nasty people who PVP will have much more impact on a game community than PVEers.  That is why the vast majority of customer support time is spent trying to reign in PVP related misbehavior.

I also agree that the MMO community has changed over the years.  The initial lumping of everyone together in one game like UO is long gone.  People who want a fuller experience, e.g. who want to do other things than PVP all the time, now know to avoid games focused on PVP altogether.  This leaves a PVP community that is much narrower in its focus, younger in age, and generally more tolerant of trash talk and abuse as "just part of the game."

I don't see this segregation easing until companies succeed in marrying PVP into a game world so that it is meangful and part of a larger set of activities.  Games like Shadowbane and Darkfall are great for PVP lovers, but become boring one-trick ponies to players who want to do more than just chase each other around the rezz spot or grief-roll the map with their server-dominating zerg.

You're assuming that PVE is all solo.... Good PVE is group oriented. A bad player in a good PVE game would negatively effect the group.

You all should really give GW2 pvp a try, it is the best form of PVP to date. 

Originally posted by Maephisto

You all should really give GW2 pvp a try, it is the best form of PVP to date. 

No, it really isn't.  But it's not bad either.  It's a shame the PvE is god awful terrible.

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Konfess
The real culprit are the FPS games & FPS gamers. If they had any skill at he fps They would still be playing them, but this group doesn’t have the skill to play FPS. So they have come to MMORPG is hopes of finding less skilled players than themselves.

You can identify these people by the demand for pvp in forums, their complaints about rpg combat being “face roll” and a demand for a more action (FPS) style of combat. Other buzz words used by gamers who prefer FPS is the need for more dynamic events and NPCs. These players failed at Far Gear’s of Modern Duty, but are hoping to find some acknowledgement of their skill. Skill they clearly don’t have, in MMORPG’s.

FPSs are mostly played on consoles, the commonality of hardware leaves only skill as the deciding factor in victory (usually). In that setting the failed FPS player has no hope of achieving the notoriety they falsely believe they deserve. After abandoning FPS in shame, they try PC based MMORPG. The diversity of hardware configuration assures them that there will be some whose hardware negates their skill and gives the FPS gamer a chance to win at pvp.

When the FPS gamer continues to fail at pvp, they turn to ganking. Their reasoning, pve players clearly are not good at pvp and are easy targets. Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything.

Then they turn into basement dwellers. lol

Really? So what are MMO players like? I don't like FPS games but I just find such sweeping generalisations, like the one above about FPS players, which aren't backed up by any statistical evidence amusing and hard to believe.