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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Has faction lock made u lose intrest?

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315 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/30/13 10:53:45 AM#101
Deakon
I would say the itemisation and progression system are Both tes and daoc. Stuff like crafting being important, lateral progression after level cap, just wandering off and finding stuff etc.. are strong concepts in daoc. Both games have a simmilar grimy darkish fantasy setting too. It's some of the reasons the 3 newest tes games remind me strongly of it, especially Morrowind as it uses the same engine. Although I would say ac is the closest mmo to tes.
  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

1/30/13 10:53:57 AM#102

When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO. Is being aware of another area's existence really that frustrating for you? The alliance areas will each be larger than any ES game thus far. Its not like they are tucking the whole alliance into one corner of one of the ES regions... they are giving us 1+ ES regions per alliance, plus a massive PvP zone. And you can always visit the other alliance areas when you reroll, which provides more content and longevity.

Face it, the developers would never be dumb enough to take the ES franchise and turn it into a pure PvP game. It would turn off the ES fanbase and would be a financial disaster. I think they have done well combining the ES levelling world with a PvP endgame, and hopefully have kep the game's appeal as broad as possible.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 860

1/30/13 11:01:39 AM#103
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by cura
Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.

Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release.  Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.

 

As to answer the OP's question.........HELL YES.  I get the following:
  • Spiritual Successor to DAoC.  The best PvP game of all time
  • Open world exploration across vast swathes of Tamriel
  • open ended class bas system that lets me wear any armor and wiled any weapon I want plus I get to customize my skills and pick and choose which skills suit me more.
  • A return to non-Instanced dungeons

 

 

 

Cyrodill is closed area, there are no details on how they want to implement housing and themeparks are for low intelligence masses. See what i did here?

Cyodill is a zone jsut as much as Skyrim is a zone.  Hence it is an open area.  You're thinking of seemless versus zoning and it has no bearing on whether or not its open or instanced.

I know what is difference between zoned and simless world and i dont care if game is one or another. But if there is only one zone to pvp you cant say its open world pvp. What bothers me is i would not have my favourite random pvp during leveling. I couldnt care less about zerging in Cyrodill. Its boring.

Thats like me getting to call the sky Periwinkle when it's obviously blue grey.  You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

 

Huge difference between Open and Instanced.  Zoned and seemless.  Cyrodill is an Open World Zone and sense PvP takes place in it then by definition it is open world PvP.  Theres only Open and instanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see your point and could agree to call it limited open world pvp since you can pvp only in ~25% of the world.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/30/13 11:05:42 AM#104
Please remember TESO Is not tes6

There will be a tes 6.

TESO is an offshoot into another genre within the tes universe, just like redguard, battlespire and the various iPhone tes games.

Now they could take the sprpg, and add some features to make it a "mmo", but what would you get, you would get a game that is swtor bad. A mmo that plays like a sprpg, but not as good as the sprpg, with a few wow clone grouping features like instanced dungeons and instanced pvp mini games.

It is better they take from daoc than take from wow. You get...
Open dungeons
Meaningfull crafting
Meaningfull and varied pvp
Exploration based pve
No quest hubs
All from daoc. Unfortunately they haven't also took housing from daoc.

Could they have copied from other models.
Sure asherons call would have been a better fit maybe. A fantasy eve would have worked too, but would have scared away the carebears.

But copying bloody wow AGAIN. Or just taking skyrim and ramming in a few semi mmo / cooprpg features would not.
  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

1/30/13 11:07:06 AM#105
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by koboldfodder

The majority of people who play video games do not play computer games.

The majority of people who play computer games do not play MMOs

The majority of people who play MMOs want nothing to do with PVP

The majority of people who play PVP MMOs want open world PVP.

The majority of people who play open world PVP want nothing to do with a WOW clone.

 

If you read the forums, the majority of people who critisize TESO do so because it reminds them of WOW.  The same themepark MMO they have been tryin got shove down our throats for the past seven years.  This game manages to insult just about every fanbase at one.  There has been so much negativity about this game from the second it was announced, there is no way it can overcome the anti-hype.

 

Why model this game around DAOC....a game that at the very best you can only call a mediocre success for two years.  Why not model it around the actual game it is supposed to represent, The Elder Scrolls.  Because the developers are too lazy to try to figure out new ideas.

 

 

 

It has more in common with tes than daoc.

It's using faction lock and rvr from doac, but the combat system, stat system, itemization, sneaking, lore, even the progression system is closer to tes than daoc, it's taking the gameplay of tes games and adding the PvP from daoc, not just slapping a tes skin on daoc

Agreed. I dont understand the other post at all. I dont even think he realized the implication of their post.

ESO is not targeting a single monolithic player type. I mean, I play the ES series but I also play MMOs. So do many other ES players. Its not like they are separate playerbases, there is overlap. There is also overlap between people who like PvP and people who play ES, just like there is overlap between people who like PvE and people who like PvP. Its not like there are a bunch of mutually exclusive groups and its impossible to appeal to more than one.

The big challenge in MMO's these days is to provide an endgame. Look at SWTOR and GW2. Good games but they lose players once the players level up, the games dont provide a lot of reason for many players to keep playing. ESO could have gone the 'PvE raid' route, where the endgame is getting better gear by grinding raid dungeons. Instead they have gone the DAoC route where PvP is the endgame. Personally I like that a lot better. Plus they have not abandoned the PvE/levelling experience like a pure PvP game might. I think thats a pretty sensible combination. Pure PvE players dont have to PvP, they can level up and then re-roll in another alliance. Certainly the existence of a PvP endgame wont chase them away from trying the game and having fun. But that endgame also gives more serious players something to do once they hit max level, and hopefully we will retain a lot more of its players than SWTOR and GW2 seem likely to do.

I said this in another thread, but its impossible to do a pure exploration game as a MMORPG because they simply cant create material as fast as players run through it. Look how long they spent on Skyrim, and how quickly some players ran through the content. That just isnt a sustainable model for a game that wants to keep players beyond a few months. That being said, I do think it should take more than the 120 hours they stated to make max level. I guess thats just a symptom of what WoW has done to MMORPGs, but that is what a large proportion of players will expect and I can see why they arent making it harder core levelling.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17002

1/30/13 11:27:26 AM#106
Originally posted by Eol-

When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO.

That's a horrible argument.

As a matter of fact it doesn't make any sense.

in a bizarro world one could ask your question if one bought an all encompassing single player elder scrolls game that had all three factions/areas BUT the player could only pick one to adventure in and the rest of the content would be closed to them.

It's  a stretch but there it is.

People didn't compalin about other areas not being there because the scope of skyrim was "skyrim" and those other areas aren't there as playable areas. I say "playable" areas because morrowind seems to be there in land mass.

Your argument doesn't seem to stem from being an elder scrolls player. Or, perhaps better said, I would be surprised if you were.

The scope of ESO is a reasonable representation of the world of the elder scrolls. I say reasonable because there is only so much land mass they can create and add with content.

Elder Scrolls players want to create a character and explore the world of the elder scrolls. I highly doubt any elder scrolls players who were invested in elder scrolls game play/ideology ever said "you know, I'd love to have an elder scrolls online game but man it would really solidify everything if it was like DAoC!"

They probably would be more likely to say "man, I really want an Elder Scrolls game but I want it to have the breadth of Daggerfall (if they go way back) or even Morrowind.

I don't think adding pvp is the issue nor do I think creating factions is the issue (though how those factions are created is a bone of contention for some) but what is the issue is that the world of elderscrolls has been created and one has to make an alt of a completely different race in order to see it.

You want to make your argument more fitting? It's like someone buying Oblvion and having to make an alt of a different race to go to Anvil. And then ask whether or not they complain. If they don't then you are right on the money.

 

 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/30/13 11:34:45 AM#107
I don't think it's an ideal design decision, but it's not enough to turn me away from a game.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/30/13 11:41:07 AM#108
You can't do everything in tes games.

In skyrim you make a choice imperial or nord, you get to change your mind 2nd quest in but after that you're locked to that quest chain. You cant be both a vampire and a dawnguard, you can't be both a werewolf and a vampire. You also have to choose blades or dragon priests. You also will have fun getting in the mages guild if you've pumped all your stats into combat.

In Morrowind you had exclusive choice of 3 houses, joining various guilds put you in opositions to the others, joining the morag tong expelled you from the dark brotherhood etc..

You generally need to make a few characters to do all the quests in tes games. Less so with skyrim, but with Morrowind and oblivion it was common to make 3 chars one if each archetype, then pick factions to join that wouldn't black your oath on other factions.
  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 247

1/30/13 11:42:04 AM#109
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Eol-

When people played Skyrim, did they complain that they were locked out of Morrowind, or Cyrodil? I am not sure its thats much different in ESO.

That's a horrible argument.

As a matter of fact it doesn't make any sense.

in a bizarro world one could ask your question if one bought an all encompassing elder scrolls game that had all three factions/areas BUT the player could only pick one to adventure with and the rest of the content would be closed to them.

It's  a stretch but there it is.

People didn't compalin about other areas not being there because the scope of skyrim was skyrim and those other areas aren't there as playable areas. I say "playable" areas because morrowind seems to be there in land mass.

Your argument doesn't seem to stem from being an elder scrolls player. Or, perhaps better said, I would be surprised if you were.

The scope of ESO is a reasonable representation of the world of the elder scrolls. I say reasonable because there is only so much land mass they can create and add with content.

Elder Scrolls players want to create a character and explore the world of the elder scrolls. I highly doubt any elder scrolls players who were invested in elder scrolls game play/ideology ever said "you know, I'd love to have an elder scrolls online game but man it would really solidify everything if it was like DAoC!"

They probably would be more likely to say "man, I really want an Elder Scrolls game but I want it to have the breadth of Daggerfall (if they go way back) or even Morrowind.

I don't think adding pvp is the issue nor do I think creating factions is the issue (though how those factions are created is a bone of contention for some) but what is the issue is that the world of elderscrolls has been created and one has to make an alt of a completely different race in order to see it.

You want to make your argument more fitting? It's like someone buying Oblvion and having to make an alt of a different race to go to Anvil. And then whether or not they complain.

 

 

No. I'm not offending you in any manner, but you misunderstood the other post (by eol).

What he meant is... What will be happening is when you pick a faction, the SCOPE will be your faction. Like... how can I explain this. The SCOPE of skyrim is skyrim... the pve scope of Ebon people will be "Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh". The pve scope of Dagger ppl will be their own lands and the pve scope of elves will be elfland.

Its like, pve wise, your "scope" is your own land, like in TES series. With an extra scope added for PvP. The PvP scope is "kill everything whos name is red, capture their little towers, secure their keeps and kill those damn imperials also.

But since PvE-wise the scope doesnt change, it will be just like any TES game.

you wont be missing cyrodill in TES because it is there, but you will be locked out of any other faction land just like in a TES game only this time PVE wise you'll have something like 3 huge TES games in one. 1 will be Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, 2 will be Hammerfell, High Rock, Orsinium (dont know bout this one) and 3 Summerset Isle, Vallenwood (not sure) and Elsweyr.

Thats why the above poster said that - since the factions dont meet each other in PvE, he asked "have you missed morrowind in skyrim?" Like... are you going to miss Hammerfell playing a Nord? You didnt in Skyrim so...

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/30/13 11:45:17 AM#110
People are still having this weird misconception that daoc was like taking a game like say rift then dividing the world in 3.

It wasn't, it was like taking a game like vanilla rift, adding 2 more games like rift, then adding a 4th game like planetside that players from the other 3 could pvp each other in.

People are moaning about getting less pve content, when in fact they are getting more pve content.
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17002

1/30/13 11:53:57 AM#111
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
 

No. I'm not offending you in any manner, but you misunderstood the other post (by eol).

What he meant is... What will be happening is when you pick a faction, the SCOPE will be your faction. Like... how can I explain this. The SCOPE of skyrim is skyrim... the pve scope of Ebon people will be "Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh". The pve scope of Dagger ppl will be their own lands and the pve scope of elves will be elfland.

Its like, pve wise, your "scope" is your own land, like in TES series. With an extra scope added for PvP. The PvP scope is "kill everything whos name is red, capture their little towers, secure their keeps and kill those damn imperials also.

But since PvE-wise the scope doesnt change, it will be just like any TES game.

you wont be missing cyrodill in TES because it is there, but you will be locked out of any other faction land just like in a TES game only this time PVE wise you'll have something like 3 huge TES games in one. 1 will be Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, 2 will be Hammerfell, High Rock, Orsinium (dont know bout this one) and 3 Summerset Isle, Vallenwood (not sure) and Elsweyr.

Thats why the above poster said that - since the factions dont meet each other in PvE, he asked "have you missed morrowind in skyrim?" Like... are you going to miss Hammerfell playing a Nord? You didnt in Skyrim so...

I completley understand that argument and you sumarize it well. Whatever faction you choose becomes your "skyrim" as opposed to "morrowind". It's as if one had a choice of multiplayer elder scrolls games , one of skyrim, one of morrowind, etc.

The issue is for elder scrolls players is that they have always been able to go the breadth of the land. Since the entiretly of the elder scrolls world (within limited resources) exists, they want to go there. They want to finally experience the breadth of the Elder Scrolls universe and walk on the sands of Elsweyr, climb the mountains of Skyirm, experience the great city of Cyrodyll (or however that's spelled). In Other Elder Scrolls games (well, morrowind and Skyrim) other lands have been made allowing players to go to Elseweyr, or Cyrodil, etc.

and no I'm not taking offense nor do I hope to give it. I just think that the point from elder scrolls fans is that they want to be able to experience the whole of Nirn with their chosen character in a way that represents their playstyle and they can't. Or they can but they need to make an alt and essentially play another game.

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 247

1/30/13 11:56:27 AM#112
Originally posted by ShakyMo
People are still having this weird misconception that daoc was like taking a game like say rift then dividing the world in 3.

It wasn't, it was like taking a game like vanilla rift, adding 2 more games like rift, then adding a 4th game like planetside that players from the other 3 could pvp each other in.

People are moaning about getting less pve content, when in fact they are getting more pve content.

Thank you for being so much better than me in the process of converting thoughts into coherent text. lol

Serioulsy... that was way simpler than what I said lol and shorter! Thanks!

To the others: WHAT HE SAID - DONT READ MINE READ THIS - says the same in a better and faster way lol

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 247

1/30/13 12:14:39 PM#113
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
 

No. I'm not offending you in any manner, but you misunderstood the other post (by eol).

What he meant is... What will be happening is when you pick a faction, the SCOPE will be your faction. Like... how can I explain this. The SCOPE of skyrim is skyrim... the pve scope of Ebon people will be "Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh". The pve scope of Dagger ppl will be their own lands and the pve scope of elves will be elfland.

Its like, pve wise, your "scope" is your own land, like in TES series. With an extra scope added for PvP. The PvP scope is "kill everything whos name is red, capture their little towers, secure their keeps and kill those damn imperials also.

But since PvE-wise the scope doesnt change, it will be just like any TES game.

you wont be missing cyrodill in TES because it is there, but you will be locked out of any other faction land just like in a TES game only this time PVE wise you'll have something like 3 huge TES games in one. 1 will be Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, 2 will be Hammerfell, High Rock, Orsinium (dont know bout this one) and 3 Summerset Isle, Vallenwood (not sure) and Elsweyr.

Thats why the above poster said that - since the factions dont meet each other in PvE, he asked "have you missed morrowind in skyrim?" Like... are you going to miss Hammerfell playing a Nord? You didnt in Skyrim so...

I completley understand that argument and you sumarize it well. Whatever faction you choose becomes your "skyrim" as opposed to "morrowind". It's as if one had a choice of multiplayer elder scrolls games , one of skyrim, one of morrowind, etc.

The issue is for elder scrolls players is that they have always been able to go the breadth of the land. Since the entiretly of the elder scrolls world (within limited resources) exists, they want to go there. They want to finally experience the breadth of the Elder Scrolls universe and walk on the sands of Elsweyr, climb the mountains of Skyirm, experience the great city of Cyrodyll (or however that's spelled). In Other Elder Scrolls games (well, morrowind and Skyrim) other lands have been made allowing players to go to Elseweyr, or Cyrodil, etc.

and no I'm not taking offense nor do I hope to give it. I just think that the point from elder scrolls fans is that they want to be able to experience the whole of Nirn with their chosen character in a way that represents their playstyle and they can't. Or they can but they need to make an alt and essentially play another game.

I know... and I cant say it wouldnt be fun to be a nord and take a stroll to hammerfell... BUT... considering what you see in WoW and other games that let you walk around the other faction's lands, I have to choose the lesser of two evils. I rather not go to Hammerfell than to have a WoW-like experience where faction simply doesnt matter at all at any level.

If you're questing or "pveing" you get ganked by a 90... or corpse camped by some idiot who has no life between his randoms. If you ask for help, your own faction says "oh man, screw that... just log another toon and come back later", if they're sieging your capital "guys they're coming for orgrimmar" - "screw it, just finishing buying my pots in ah then I have to go raid xxx let them have fun, I dont care", or "theres an horde farming in Goldshire /wave /kiss" - what the hell?

In daoc... you saw a little tower getting attacked, you issued a freaking call to arms and everyone would drop what they were doing and come to help... crafting or fighting dragons, didnt matter, people would just all quit their stuff and ran to the frontiers... from the well geared 50s to little 35's, you'd seen them all there, because "Our stuff is OUR stuff and no one TAKES OUR STUFF".

Its hard to explain the concept in DAoC without mentioning something that I'll get flamed and ridiculed by it but I'll say it - Realm Pride. The lack of "contact" with other factions didnt allow for you to develop any kind of emotional feeling towards them besides "hate them, kill them, take their stuff, if they do the same, try and get their women and children also, get their heads on pikes on the way to our keep just to show them". So... to promote the rivalry and utter hate towards the other faction is needed for you to only see the bad stuff about them - taking your stuff - if you realize that they're just like you doing the same stuff, you grow a feeling of "understanding" - and pvp (and curiously real life wars) only really work when you only demonize the enemy... if you're at war with China or Russia, you dont really want your troops and common citizens to watch them having dinner with their families and celebrating birthdays, that would just soften your "fighting spirit" - same applies here :)

Thats why I agree with no contact with other factions. I dont want to /hug /wave /kiss a Breton... I want to /slit, kill them all and /pray. (I used to /pray in DAoC after killing someone cause the character would do this cross sign emote with his right hand like a extreme unction or anointing of the sick (since I was an alb)

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/30/13 1:22:37 PM#114
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Deakon
I would say the itemisation and progression system are Both tes and daoc. Stuff like crafting being important, lateral progression after level cap, just wandering off and finding stuff etc.. are strong concepts in daoc. Both games have a simmilar grimy darkish fantasy setting too. It's some of the reasons the 3 newest tes games remind me strongly of it, especially Morrowind as it uses the same engine. Although I would say ac is the closest mmo to tes.

I was talking about being able to use any item type regardless of class and the fact that theres skill based progression (more i use fireball the more fireball levels up), those concepts are verry elder scrolls

  User Deleted
1/30/13 1:26:08 PM#115
Nope, not at all.  I could care less than I do right now.
  urzan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 5

1/30/13 1:33:52 PM#116
Completely agree with OP and videos.
  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1094

1/30/13 1:41:17 PM#117
Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't do everything in tes games.

In skyrim you make a choice imperial or nord, you get to change your mind 2nd quest in but after that you're locked to that quest chain. You cant be both a vampire and a dawnguard, you can't be both a werewolf and a vampire. You also have to choose blades or dragon priests. You also will have fun getting in the mages guild if you've pumped all your stats into combat.

In Morrowind you had exclusive choice of 3 houses, joining various guilds put you in opositions to the others, joining the morag tong expelled you from the dark brotherhood etc..

You generally need to make a few characters to do all the quests in tes games. Less so with skyrim, but with Morrowind and oblivion it was common to make 3 chars one if each archetype, then pick factions to join that wouldn't black your oath on other factions.

The problem is, with all those choices that were available you never had to choose ANY of them. You were not forced into a particular playstyle from the start. You create a character, explore the world, discover things and somewhere along the line might be faced with a choice. No matter how many choices there was, like 3 houses or either werewolf or vampire....you always had the choice of walking away.

No matter what character I make, whichever race I choose, I am part of the war and I cannot do anything about that. And seeing as the war only actually takes place in 1 or the 10 regions that is a pretty big thing to force onto people. That is a really BIG problem for me personally. And from that stems all the other problems like not being able to explore the entire continent of Tamriel like the posters say I can!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17002

1/30/13 1:46:16 PM#118
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
 

I know... and I cant say it wouldnt be fun to be a nord and take a stroll to hammerfell... BUT... considering what you see in WoW and other games that let you walk around the other faction's lands, I have to choose the lesser of two evils. I rather not go to Hammerfell than to have a WoW-like experience where faction simply doesnt matter at all at any level.

If you're questing or "pveing" you get ganked by a 90... or corpse camped by some idiot who has no life between his randoms. If you ask for help, your own faction says "oh man, screw that... just log another toon and come back later", if they're sieging your capital "guys they're coming for orgrimmar" - "screw it, just finishing buying my pots in ah then I have to go raid xxx let them have fun, I dont care", or "theres an horde farming in Goldshire /wave /kiss" - what the hell?

well, my first mmo experience was lineage 2 and if someone was ganked your whole guild/alliance would be there. So, I take it in WoW you never had a group get killed only to gather 200 supporters to cross the land just to rez them and exact retribution on the offenders?

I understand "realm pride" but just in the form of one's own guild/alliance family".

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2406

1/30/13 2:19:03 PM#119
Faction lock is one of the only things keeping me interested in this game.
  loulaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 789

1/31/13 4:49:43 AM#120
well the OPs matter really turned me off, also their global server who is smart enough to place you with friends (?) makes me worry, for sure not going for preorders etc on this title ...

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