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Originally posted by Theocritus This sums up this thread indeed. I am pleased with the outcome of this thread. Thank You all. |
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1/30/13 10:55:38 AM#142
Originally posted by Theocritus Such BS. I play mainly crafter in mmo's and sometimes it gets tedious to craft and pve for loot and resources all the time. Sometimes i need a break from boring a$$ quests and aimlessly looking for resources to craft with. Thus PvP is a break from the "norm" and just to go let loose. When i PvP i do it in group, thus rarely get ganked. Also few games with open world PvP it was strict guild policy not to engage with someone under our skill level unless attacked first. Tired of these BS misconception about pvp, and made up stuff about being ganked all the time just so they can try to proove a point. Which is based on fabrication in most cases.
I like pvp because its a challange, human vs humanm, and i like smack talk. And i play crafter mostly, so you missing a few "types" there? And to be honest, 95% of the newer aged themeparks force you to pvp at end game for loot, gear, and coin anyways. Just because they instance it doesnt make it a safer pvp atmosphere. You proably die more in a raid or battlezone than you would in an open world environment unless you are clueless, clumsy, and just oblivious to your surroundings. And many times the battlezones are not equal on terms of skill, level, and size of team which is no different than being ganked (larger group/more skilled group killing smaller group/less skilled group). |
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1/30/13 10:56:26 AM#143
Originally posted by Isturi Agreed. /thread Currently Playing: Path of Exile, Everquest |
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1/30/13 11:03:12 AM#144
Originally posted by Isturi So you posted this thread with the conclusion already in mind, got some people to agree with it, concluded with a strawman and you are satisfied?
Well, you are easy to please, I'll give you that. How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun." |
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1/30/13 11:05:08 AM#145
Originally posted by Scottgun Really, so that's why most hybrid MMOs with console style interfaces are big hits with the PC gamers? I'd say that is more than enough reason to put a little more effort into retaining all of those fleeing or never starting PC gamers. It was a huge stink for FFXI when it released and they were forced to make changes. I know DCUO's interface irritated the hell out of me, now whether that played a big part in it's lack of popularity isn't proven, but probably likely. The same goes for FFXIV, which surely had other issues, but the interface was one of the big ones and guess what, is being changed for version 2.0. Any game that has both PvE and PvP, there is always a huge stink when PvP gets nerfed and everyone who does PvE has to suffer for it. I've seen it happen in DAoC, AO, Lineage II, Aion, SWTOR, WHO and GW2.
So yeah, there is a lot more return for putting in separate code for things like PvP balance and interfaces than some might think and that translates into real revenue.  |
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1/30/13 11:06:02 AM#146
Originally posted by Scottgun Agreed! Now that the argument has been "won", we can all go back to our regularly scheduled programs. Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure. |
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Originally posted by Scottgun I had no conclusion in mind. Acualy Theocritus conclusion seem to fit the mold of the thread very well. Yes I agree and hope not all would agree and fit in to the mold of the thread Ty for those who dont. But It is true I am easy to please. |
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1/30/13 11:08:45 AM#148
Originally posted by Vorthanion Fair enough. There could be resons to think there would be a good return for much effort. But just writing off any company that does the math and comes up with a different conclusion is just lazy is unfair. How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun." |
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1/30/13 11:16:48 AM#149
Originally posted by NaughtyP Ok. I'll make sure I never even take a break from PvE to do PVP since that would make me a ganker only in it to ruing someone else's fun. How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun." |
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1/30/13 11:31:22 AM#150
Originally posted by Scottgun Yeah, the fact is, your typical PVP griefers are the in-game equivalent of your forum trolls. They get noticed more and receive more attention because they are the loudest and most obvious. It often feels like they've overrun the place, but in reality, they are a minority. In the grand scheme of things, there are way more players just looking for competitive gameplay with thinking opponents. For every griefer, you easily have 10-20 players just looking for some challenging play with others. There's several different types of PvPers. Griefers, "If it's red, it's dead", honorable players who don't gank someone fighting 3 mobs or gank lowbies, arena junkies, battleground instance players, siege-focused guys, etc. Then you have those strange PVE guys who play on PVP servers/games because it adds some type of realism/thrill even though they don't really like PVP. The reason players who decide to try PvP and end up hating it think all PvP gaming is ganking is because the griefers tend to be the first people you encounter, waiting around to prey on lowbies and newbies and whatnot, while the regular(majority) of the PvP players are just somewhere else doing their own thing in areas more suited to their level of play. P.S. The reason no one shows good sportsmanship anymore, such as telling your opponent "Hey, great fight, man," or tips their hats in respect, is because games don't allow it. The majority of games today don't allow you to communicate with your faction enemies, etc. Makes me sad, I've had some great chats with folks in the past after a PvP battle, giving each other tips and showing appreciation for a great fight. |
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1/30/13 11:53:56 AM#151
Originally posted by Lokero Not true in the e-sports game like SC2, or LOL, or even WOT. You can chat with anyone. |
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1/30/13 12:07:35 PM#152
The real culprit are the FPS games & FPS gamers. If they had any skill at he fps They would still be playing them, but this group doesn’t have the skill to play FPS. So they have come to MMORPG is hopes of finding less skilled players than themselves.
You can identify these people by the demand for pvp in forums, their complaints about rpg combat being “face roll” and a demand for a more action (FPS) style of combat. Other buzz words used by gamers who prefer FPS is the need for more dynamic events and NPCs. These players failed at Far Gear’s of Modern Duty, but are hoping to find some acknowledgement of their skill. Skill they clearly don’t have, in MMORPG’s. FPSs are mostly played on consoles, the commonality of hardware leaves only skill as the deciding factor in victory (usually). In that setting the failed FPS player has no hope of achieving the notoriety they falsely believe they deserve. After abandoning FPS in shame, they try PC based MMORPG. The diversity of hardware configuration assures them that there will be some whose hardware negates their skill and gives the FPS gamer a chance to win at pvp. When the FPS gamer continues to fail at pvp, they turn to ganking. Their reasoning, pve players clearly are not good at pvp and are easy targets. Contrary to popular belief the FPS gamer are not kids but 20 year olds, ex-college students whose parents still buy them everything. Pardon any spelling errors |
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1/30/13 12:12:59 PM#153
Unfortunately for Arenanet a lot of us are burned out on PVE and small scale PvP and we thought WvW was the best part of Guild Wars 2 by far. Why is that unfortunate?
Rendering issues. Exploits. Extreme unbalance between servers and consequently server hopping, which just made things worse.
So yes, a lot of us are tired of PVE and enjoy the challenge of PvP, especially PvP on a huge scale. But creating and maintaining that type of content seems to be beyond what Arenanet can manage or wants to allocate resources to. Much easier to whip up a few dungeons, tack on some shiny top end gear, and take the rest of the day off.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. ~Albert Einstein |
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1/30/13 12:19:59 PM#154
Originally posted by Konfess As opposed to PvE'ers who are college professors. How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun." |
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1/30/13 12:27:35 PM#155
Originally posted by nariusseldon But they aren't MMO's, the thread is about MMO's as per its title, please try not to derail. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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1/30/13 1:02:09 PM#156
Originally posted by Isturi I could not care less for pvp then I currently do. PvE is only world I'm interested in. I was also always kind of person that will help any player in trouble with pve world, does not matter if "opposite faction" and not to jump on his troath when alredy half dead from pve fight. |
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1/30/13 1:06:55 PM#157
So what are these pvp centric mmorpgs ? I would love to try them.
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1/30/13 1:17:21 PM#158
Originally posted by SQTO I'm still trying to figure that out. I asked about that earlier in the thread and didn't get much of an answer. According to this site's game list, there have been about 250 games released since Jan 2008. Of those which ones force PvP on the players... the only answer given was Aion. That's 0.4% of the population. How can anyone complain when they own 99% of the market share? "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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1/30/13 1:21:12 PM#159
Originally posted by dave6660 Eve Online has forced PvP. Darkfall is forced PvP so is Mortal Online, Archeage seems like it will be (sad to say, otherwise I'd play it in a heartbeat), Age of Wushu/Wulin is forced PvP, and many games have PvP servers.
Personally, I'm not interested in either getting ganked all the time when out in the open world or having to run around with 20 people everywhere I go to not get ganked, so these games don't remotely appeal to me even though I love being able to go to an area with large scale PvP if and when I choose to.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. ~Albert Einstein |
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1/30/13 1:22:54 PM#160
From the poll results so far, it seems that PvP players are just a vocal minority. Glad to hear it tbh. I always feel i get a lot of crap for being a purely pve player.
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