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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Blergh... I just CAN'T cope with these stories...

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84 posts found
  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

1/28/13 8:32:05 PM#61

Sith Warrior. Female (due to voice acting). Be as mean and angry as you can be. Hilarity ensues.

I love the Agent story, but just for kicks, nothing beats the above.

On Republic side, almost no good stories. Best would be the Smuggler.

 

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

1/28/13 8:37:24 PM#62
I find that its less the stories themselves, cause they aren't that bad. Its character development, its so... basic. the only character you get that doesnt feel like they are cut out of cardboard is the PC. and even they have their moments. I guess ive been Spoiled by Tornquist, His writing is just soo much better.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1437

1/28/13 10:38:02 PM#63
Originally posted by BadOrb

I have played 7 of the class stories all the way through , 2 BH's and seen ( in a group ) the smuggler story. I'm at 41 on one of my smugglers too and one of my Jedi's is at 43. Now if you chose different replies in NPC convos then the dialogue can be very different , especially with light and dark side choices. You may say but the outcome is the same , well that isn't completelly true as you kill or capture certain NPC's and that again changes parts of the story further down the line. The "whole" not liking the jedi's converstions is a little bit hard to understand fully as that is the way jedi's are mostly , very serious and stuck up , maybe you just don't like jedi's in general OP ?

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Looking at what I believe Jedi would be like. I though the JC story was what I expected. I liked the story, playing as a LS Jedi would play. I have gone back and am playing a JK now as a DS Jedi. And even though I am still a Jedi and want to help the Republic. I have different ways of going about it with my DS choices. Has been fun for me so far. The fun you have is based on how you play and your expectations. This type of play isn't for everyone.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 618

1/28/13 11:40:29 PM#64
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
Originally posted by Bossalinie

But it did have C3P0...which original fans refuse to admit he was just as bad as binks

A different breed of idiot.

C3PO is closer to the funny gay butler, compared to the entertainment for five year olds that Jar Jar provides.

Of course they are both bumbling idiots that trip over everything...

Hmm...well I didn't see any difference between Jar Jar swinging on a droid turret and C3PO small-step-shuffling wall to wall between trooper barrage on Leia's ship...but that's just me. The 5 year olds laughed and called them both stupid...

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2188

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/29/13 12:03:56 AM#65
Originally posted by Incomparable
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by jpnz

SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

Do you love star wars stories?

How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

Considering the prequels are actual SW stories, yes I liked them.

Course I loved EP4-6 more but I like all SW stories.

If you don't like the prequels, you don't like SW stories since the prequels are actual official SW stories. This isn't rocket science.

Well it isn't rocket science, but it isn't kindergarden either. SW stories can be told badly. SW stories can have poorly written dialogue. SW stories can have actors who do a poor job with poor dialogue. 

The prequels were good sw stories told poorly, just as I believe the SWToR stories were told poorly - 

so no it is not rocket science, but it is at least a university level understanding of literature, language arts, creative writing and film.

It is thoroughly possible to like SW but not like how some of the cannon was portrayed. I know it is possible, because it is how I and many many others feel.

Its also meant to entertain a large audience. So its not going to use complex wording, which I have no problems enjoying along with complex story which may feel like a puzzle. However, almost anything can feel cliche since its has been done before. The only way to not be cliche is either keep it simple or really go big in some way, which can make the game feel like its directed towards a niche market.

Not to put you in the spot, but if you thought of an outline of an alternative story for the jedi, do you think others would think it is better than the outline of the existing story of the jedi , for example, in swtor?

The point is that people have their own ideas, and dont like storytelling, and rather tell the story or maybe are just accustomed to a specific style of story. So you say others agree with you, but maybe its not so much so the story but a story told in a game that is not enjoyable for you?

So... think about the outline idea, and how it might make you realize that point.

I didn't have a problem with the outline of the stories though.....I had problems with the delivery. 

So, I'll use an example from the consular story to illustrate what I mean.

The outline;

Your master gets sick.

You are compelled as a character to help her.

You stumble on a dark plot which may take over/destroy/incompacitate the jedi order

You feel compelled to reveal this larger story.

- That's a good star wars story outline - 

But........

When your master falls prey to some mysterious illness, did you as a player (i.e. audience)  'feel' worried for her? Were you emotionally invested in the character? Did it seem like if you didn't make the right choices she wouldn't survive? Would you have actually cared if she did or didn't? If they killed her off would your jaw have dropped? Would you feel shocked?

One of the first lessons of engaging storytelling is not to 'tell' them how they 'should' feel, but rather to 'make' them feel the emotion you want to convey. Over and over and over, we were told 'you care about her'. The never once 'made' me care about her.

 Since the storywriting didn't actually make me feel invested in the characters and its outcome, I could not have cared less about her - and the main thrust of the story was that 'I' the jedi consular, was supposed to be invested in solving the problem - yet in reality,  I was not. 

They took a good outline and executed it poorly. 

Here are two other examples to illustrate the point.

1. Watch Bakshi's animated Lord of the Rings. Now watch Peter Jackson's. Exact same outline. Which was better storytelling, and why?

2. Read Game of Thrones or even watch the first season, if you haven't. There will be a point (unless someone spoiled it for you) where something happens which makes most people drop their jaw in utter surprise (actually there are several - but one in particular which would be tantamount to telling someone what rosebud was in Citizen Cane or revealing the end of 6th sense). The main reason your jaw drops - is because the author spent the entire book investing you in its characters. You cared about them. Never once did they tell the reader 'this is a character you care about'. The characters said things and did things that made me care about them.  In SWToR,  the story didn't invest me in the characters, the story told me, 'hey, you should be invested in these characters'. This is the poorest of choices a creative writer can make, and one that should be stamped out by the time you exit a Creative Writing 101 class.

And I'll leave with this final thought:

IF: I don't like star wars stories because I don't like prequals.

IF: I don't like star wars because I thought SWToR had bad storytelling.

THEN: I ask, have you seen the Star Wars Holiday special

Are you going to hold yourself to the same standard you are holding me to? And if you're response is, 'the holiday special' isn't canon - the game (and other SW games)  acknowledge, even celebrate Life Day right? Guess where it came from. 

FINALLY: I ask, if you like the originals more than the prequals - guess what - there is a reason, you've just admitted some Star Wars stories are told better than others, and thus you like them more. So inadvertantly, you just made my entire point.

 

 

 

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

1/29/13 12:42:48 AM#66
If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2188

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/29/13 12:46:30 AM#67
Originally posted by ignore_me
If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

I did.

But aren't I suppose to ignore you? /wink

 

  Azaron_Nightblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 456

1/29/13 4:02:17 AM#68

Originally posted by Zorgo

I didn't have a problem with the outline of the stories though.....I had problems with the delivery. 

So, I'll use an example from the consular story to illustrate what I mean.

The outline;

Your master gets sick.

You are compelled as a character to help her.

You stumble on a dark plot which may take over/destroy/incompacitate the jedi order

You feel compelled to reveal this larger story.

- That's a good star wars story outline - 

But........

When your master falls prey to some mysterious illness, did you as a player (i.e. audience)  'feel' worried for her? Were you emotionally invested in the character? Did it seem like if you didn't make the right choices she wouldn't survive? Would you have actually cared if she did or didn't? If they killed her off would your jaw have dropped? Would you feel shocked?

One of the first lessons of engaging storytelling is not to 'tell' them how they 'should' feel, but rather to 'make' them feel the emotion you want to convey. Over and over and over, we were told 'you care about her'. The never once 'made' me care about her.

 

Sadly due to its MMO nature I fear it was more of a lack of time thing than anything else... it probably would've been much better if she had at least been your mentor throughout Chapter 1 before falling sick, maybe even one that travels with you on your space ship for a while (much like Anakin and Obi-Wan often traveled together).

But yeah, most of the NPCs suffer from this lack of personal investment.

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

1/29/13 8:02:56 AM#69

In SWG you made your own stories.

'Nuff said tbqfh.

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/29/13 8:06:44 AM#70

For SWTOR they are  as good as they get, but I don't think stories like this really suit a MMO well, and should stick with single player games, maybe with co-op like Lego Star Wars

In Mass Effect 3 they had multiplayer but the main story was not.

The stories in SWTOR were mainly single player focussed, and commented as if you were the only one. One person in a cutscene, said "Get him, he's only one person" Not true, I was grouped with a friend so there was 2 of us. Comments like that lose the immersion when playing with others.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

1/29/13 8:11:39 AM#71

Play as a jugg.....

Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

1/29/13 8:23:53 AM#72
Originally posted by Maephisto

Play as a jugg.....

Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

I liked him until he betrayed me and tried to have me killed. After that I wanted to kill him. Plus his sniveling and whining at the end made ending his life so much more enjoyable. :)

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2188

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/29/13 8:34:29 AM#73
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Maephisto

Play as a jugg.....

Darth Baras is a pretty cool character, I have lots in common with him.  I hated when you had to kill him, such a sad moment.

I liked him until he betrayed me and tried to have me killed. After that I wanted to kill him. Plus his sniveling and whining at the end made ending his life so much more enjoyable. :)

It is definately good to hear that some people could get invested in their characters; I simply couldn't. 

Since the stories were just one of my issues with this game, I doubt I'll re-install just to try a jugg.....

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  1/29/13 11:12:13 PM#74
Dark Side is always cooler in games. It usually gets much more love. Most devs don't invest much into light side.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

1/29/13 11:54:39 PM#75
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by ignore_me
If you don't like the stories in SWTOR then you should just erase it from the machine. There is nothing else to this game besides the class stories.

I did.

But aren't I suppose to ignore you? /wink

 

hehe :)  I'm thinking making that name up while drunk was a bad idea.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  1/30/13 4:25:32 AM#76

I started to play Sith Warrior, yeah the story is much better.

Still, planet quests still are often dubious, but even here Empire is better. But... I am hitting Taris now, and it feels like a brick wall. With so few people making WZs now and low XP from WZs and PVP... I am not sure I will play further. Taris is SO SO SO horribad. XD

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Azaron_Nightblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 456

1/30/13 6:58:32 AM#77

Yeah... not too fond of Taris either, it's always been one of the planets where I lose momentum, then it gets better again until I reach Belsavis & Voss - at which point I'm likely to go play something else while I occasionally come back to torture myself again by struggling through those zones.

It's not that they are hard or anything, they simply bore me to tears.

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2528

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/30/13 7:03:52 AM#78
Originally posted by Elikal

Out of boredom and curiosity I went back to one sub months. I made my peace with lots of things, like the barren worlds and stuff. But many of the stories... so they are just SO bad.

Agent, Inquisitor and Smuggler, those were good stories. But Jedi... good grief, it's like a fanfic! So so so stereotype. Not a cent of humor. It's like what Mark Hammill said, when he first saw the New Trilogy, that it was so damn serious and no humor. Indeed. That was the big difference between Old and good and the mediocre New Trilogy. WAAAAY too serious. It's always noble Jedi, selfless bla blah... do those Jedi EVER get tired of their calender-wisdom? I mean, their sayings could be right outside a cheap horoscope!

And many, many of the planetary quests are just as awful. Sorry, but for a company claiming to take STORY so important, most of the stories SUCK. I mean, ok  they don't suck, but they are on a level like a fanfic! Save the sick master, get the princess... bla bla. God, can a story get anymore stereotype and lame?

 

EVERY NPC: "Oh save my farm/shop/family from the evil XYZ. And to do that you must take the Y from the END of the cave and wade through all mobs."

JEDI: "Verily, honorable stranger to whom I owe nothing,  it is my duty as Jedi to work for free! It was the will of the Force I came here to save your precious cake/diary/daughter/waffle collection."

 

Yeah. VERY creative writing. NOT!

Zzzzzzzzz....

 I found the smuggler story a snoozefest myself but to each thier own.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  1/30/13 7:54:57 AM#79
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

Yeah... not too fond of Taris either, it's always been one of the planets where I lose momentum, then it gets better again until I reach Belsavis & Voss - at which point I'm likely to go play something else while I occasionally come back to torture myself again by struggling through those zones.

It's not that they are hard or anything, they simply bore me to tears.

Yeah. I hope they add new middle level planets. Or do a total revamp like Cata did.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Azaron_Nightblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 456

1/30/13 8:15:40 AM#80
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

Yeah... not too fond of Taris either, it's always been one of the planets where I lose momentum, then it gets better again until I reach Belsavis & Voss - at which point I'm likely to go play something else while I occasionally come back to torture myself again by struggling through those zones.

It's not that they are hard or anything, they simply bore me to tears.

Yeah. I hope they add new middle level planets. Or do a total revamp like Cata did.

Yeah, that would definitely be welcome - I could even live with having to travel to those planets just to complete my class stories while getting the majority of my levels elsewhere.

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

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