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Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Poll: Which payment model is ideal for ESO?

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397 posts found
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2909

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/28/13 12:13:33 PM#301
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by superniceguy

Subsciption with Lifetime Subscription option.

If it offereed LT sub I would take it.

TSW LTers will vastly disagree.  LT subs are retarded as one can never know the future of a game.

I have a TSW LT sub. I am Happy with it still, I get a lot of extras for being a lifetimer.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

1/28/13 12:15:42 PM#302
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by superniceguy

Subsciption with Lifetime Subscription option.

If it offereed LT sub I would take it.

TSW LTers will vastly disagree.  LT subs are retarded as one can never know the future of a game.

I have a TSW LT sub. I am Happy with it still, I get a lot of extras for being a lifetimer.

Funny enough they are talking about giving LT players more things since so many people were whiney Babies. Strangely enough the Lifetimers actually were generally happy with it. you saw a small minority who were unhappy.

 

Anyways as much as i dont like B2P, So long as WoW is still on the market P2P wont be profitable to anyone else. so i had to go with B2P.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/28/13 12:16:17 PM#303
Originally posted by floreairfoot
Originally posted by azzamasin

Regardless of how many players that play the game it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why WoW's playerbase are the worst based on things like" Official T-Shirts with the logo "I Survived Barrens Chat".

 

When that came out (years ago) it was funny and relevant.

I can't grasp how you think that works as an example, but ok.

I can't fathom how you wouldn't think it does.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

1/28/13 12:41:27 PM#304
Originally posted by Rayshe
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by superniceguy

Subsciption with Lifetime Subscription option.

If it offereed LT sub I would take it.

TSW LTers will vastly disagree.  LT subs are retarded as one can never know the future of a game.

I have a TSW LT sub. I am Happy with it still, I get a lot of extras for being a lifetimer.

Funny enough they are talking about giving LT players more things since so many people were whiney Babies. Strangely enough the Lifetimers actually were generally happy with it. you saw a small minority who were unhappy.

Anyways as much as i dont like B2P, So long as WoW is still on the market P2P wont be profitable to anyone else. so i had to go with B2P.

I can't see pure P2P ever being viable again in the forseeable future.  WoW has an intertia of player investment in the game along with so many people that moving on isn't a viable option.  It will surprise me if Blizzard will even be able to recreate that with Titan.  It will also be interesting to see if WoW hampers Titan's success, or if Blizzard will do something to encourage players to move on.

B2P is my favorite for games I'm very interested in because it has a good up front cost recovery for each account while keeping the barrier to entry fairly low.  Companies can show decent revenue gains without needing to move as much of the game into a cash shop.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  DavidVauhn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/11
Posts: 2

1/28/13 11:08:41 PM#305

Sub, for many reasons. The first and foremost being that I cannot stand cash shops. I hate the feeling that I bought this game, but I will never be able to obtain those small things in it. But selfish reasons aside, it will profit Zenimax much more. And with more profit comes more frequent updates, more stable servers, and an overall better experience. I've no problem paying monthly for a game that the devs are likely paying thousands a month to keep running, servers ain't cheap. 

As mentioned earlier (This isn't completely true) but at least for awhile, sub based games have a better community. I mean, it took a long time for WoW to go downhill like it is now, I played since launch, and believe it or not, there was a time when the community wasn't half bad. Granted a jerk/elitest from time to time, but those are in every game. 

 

  Incomparable

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 755

1/28/13 11:15:14 PM#306
Trying to be objective, and think how ESO would have the best appeal to video gamers from the genre then it would be B2P. The reason for this is bvecuase a lot of the fans of the lore do not pay sub fees, and therefore b2p is what they are accustomed to. 
 
Also another benefit of b2p is developers have to develop content that is suitable for a b2p model. Which means having content that is more repeatable, has strong retention, and each expansion has a lot of content to draw people in. I belive the motivation to develop content better for release and after is better with b2p for developers and even players looking at content to justify their continuation of putting money into a game.
 
As for the cash shop, as long as it is not pay to win, then it should not be a problem. A cash shop is another means for others to support the devs and also for the devs to make content that people would like which are small extras for customization. I believe if the cash shop is mostly for customization then it would be good for everyone.

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

1/28/13 11:58:25 PM#307

P2P, simply because cash shops for ingame items are a very slippery slope, in any form.   About the only way I would agree with a cash shop is if it was strictly to allow newcomers to a game to purchase items that vets had been given as anniversary rewards.  This would breath a little more cash into the game and except for the few that would feel "their" loyalty wasn't as valued because someone new could acquire them, albeit for hard cash, most would be happy.

Imo, most P2P companies feel more of an obligation to keep the players happy on a continual basis(ie.ingame gms, account recovery options, etc) instead of like with B2P pointing them to a future expansion or if you're lucky a decent content patch and justifying any problems with a "hey, it's f2p what do you expect?" and for ingame service, don't hold your breath. 

Also with B2P most players lose their attachment after the first couple of months simply because they feel they've paid two month's worth of a sub and when the newness wears off and if the game isn't living up to expectations(real, assumed or implied) the players flee, dollars in tow, iow's, it turns into a F2P experience.

F2P otoh tends to attract drifters who seldom care about the game past "winning" it and even less about the other people that play it, driving many of those other players away and leaving a whole subset of gamers disenchanted with mmos and their supporters in general and either become drifters themselves with no attachment, monetary or emotional, to any game or searching out those games who's companies/creators still believe that loyal customers that are willing to pay you regularily for your continued efforts are more valuable than millions of players who are willing to eat your bandwidth as long as they don't have any obligations to the game and most certainly not with their wallets.

 

When it comes down to it, whether P2P, B2P, F2P, Freemium, Premium or whatever you want to call it, all of the items are virtual,  and when you quit playing the game, or it quits you, none of it will survive past the entertainment memories you gathered and hopefully some of the friendships you may have made while playing it.  As for value, what's the price of entertainment?  How much is your cable bill, movie allowance, opera budget, golf game, etc?  None of those are items you get to keep either, they're all just memories, hopefully good ones otherwise you're getting shafted.  When I spend my money on entertainment, I like to pay for something I want to see, hear, participate in, or play, not so someone else can play for free.

  Sephiroso

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

1/29/13 12:03:50 AM#308

So i stopped readin at "don't answer as a customer, answer as if you were the owner of the company"

 

Yea...you do realize how many pre-teens are on this site right? And even then, putting age aside, most adults can't even put themselves realistically in a company owner's shoes like that and make an informed decision. It's why so few are successful company owners and so many are just mere peons.

 

So yea, pointless poll. Sorry

 


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

1/29/13 6:41:50 AM#309

iv seen alot of people saying B2P means the develpers have to put focus into game play to amintain retention. . . . .WHY

the only module that they have to work for retention instead of new peple is P2P because they want you to keep up your sub any other version and once you have bought the game or all the dhinies in shop they no longer can get anything from you and at this point they dont care about you

so tell me please explain to me why the devs would care about core game play and retention if they already got your cash

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Ice-Queen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2435

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

1/29/13 6:45:10 AM#310
Originally posted by itgrowls

For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
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  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/29/13 6:46:08 AM#311
P2P is dead.  Theres not one company (besides Blizzard) that is doing well with that model.  The average MMO player is clueless to the workings of how things really are.  B2P and F2P are the future.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 615

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

1/29/13 7:19:16 AM#312
Originally posted by Malacth

I don't know why people even want to pay subs anymore, isn't it only WoW and Eve that actually have subs nowdays?

 

B2P is the way forward, the game should initially be worth the fee to purchase (ie Huge) and then have a cosmetic cash shop (dyes, cosmetic gear, mounts, pets etc) and updates/expansions should be purchased (as long as they are large, and not just small patches.)

 

In other words, the way The Secret World has gone.

 

I think this payment model is good for a few reasons. 

1.) The developers make most (if not all) of the budget of the game back when the boxes initially sell.

2.) You can play whenever you want, you've bought the game, you should be able to play it whenever, not just rent it when you pay a sub etc.

3.) The company is still making money from the cosmetic shop consistently.

4.) The developers are working harder and faster to release decent updates/expansions, decent because players won't buy crappy ones, and faster because the company wants the money. (monthly preferably.)

5.) The player has full control over what they are spending their money on after they've initially purchased the game.

 

My two cents anyway.

It's a god awful way to fund a game because essentialy it's a question of economics.

i.e if there's a demand for cosmetic cs stuff what do you produce? More of the same and ignore the other stuff that doesn't make you money, like bug fixes,content gaps etc. 

Also they'll make things as absolute, 'must haves', that you need to buy.  Lockbox keys are across many games and are resented by most of the playerbase who get the feeling the developers are treating them like an ATM. CO is one of the latest to do this, they have new mounts released with the last patch.  You can only get them from a lockbox, (which you have to buy), which has a terrible random chance of dropping them so it's essentially gambling with crap odds.

The problem with many cs is there just far too greedy and will change to drastically depending on profit margins.  As a subscriber you have certain rights, your paying for a service and you can tell that company if your not happy. If a game does well then developers will invest to keep you there. As a f2p player if you think somethings wrong you'll either be ignored or banned as they target is the next schumuck with more money then sense.

Secret World is a failed sub game, they've taken this approach to try and generate interest and money. If this doesn't work then they'll change their model again to squeeze more cash out of the remaining players. B2P/F2P always means you have to come up with new ways to make extra money and that makes it far too easy to exploit your players.

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/29/13 7:24:26 AM#313
Like eve. Just sub, with option to buy / sell subs in game.
  Remyi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 14

1/29/13 8:30:58 AM#314
Originally posted by Tayah
Originally posted by itgrowls

For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

 

Hell, my rich friend bought my copy, and was going to pay my monthly subscription, in order to get me to play it with him. I didn't even think that game was worthy of HIS $15 per month.

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1079

1/29/13 8:57:37 AM#315

1) P2P

2) F2P /w balanced cash shop/sub system

 

B2P used to sound like a good thing, then GW2 happend.

But the most important is to use the payment model they designed the game with which is P2P.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/29/13 9:37:43 AM#316
Originally posted by Remyi
Originally posted by Tayah
Originally posted by itgrowls

For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

 

Hell, my rich friend bought my copy, and was going to pay my monthly subscription, in order to get me to play it with him. I didn't even think that game was worthy of HIS $15 per month.

That isnt the sub fee's fault tho, its the quality of the game

  Remyi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 14

1/29/13 1:32:26 PM#317
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Remyi
Originally posted by Tayah
Originally posted by itgrowls

For all those who want another P2P marvel let me remind you of the last one we had, "May the force be with you". Yeah we saw how well that went didn't we, and please please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting it's not due to the payment model.

Let me remind you also that over a million people bought the game, fully knowing it came with a subscription fee. The problem wasn't the sub fee, it was that the game wasn't good enough for an mmorpg to warrant a sub fee. It was a B2P game from the start, only Bioware were too arrogant to realize that til it was too late. People will pay a sub fee if they enjoy playing an mmo and want to conitinue to play it.

 

Hell, my rich friend bought my copy, and was going to pay my monthly subscription, in order to get me to play it with him. I didn't even think that game was worthy of HIS $15 per month.

That isnt the sub fee's fault tho, its the quality of the game

 

True. But games aren't perfect at release. Look at how rapidly the subscription count declined because of it. People don't want to hang around, paying a monthly fee for an unestablished game when they can just go back to WoW.

  maysonite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/11
Posts: 1

1/29/13 9:10:21 PM#318

P2P is the only respectable option for AAA games.  B2P doesnt pay enough to get a AAA game.  Cashshops are crap unless they are cosmetic ONLY.  The only real way to make it is have a game that rivals the polish WoW has set as a MMO standard and use the sub model.  If you cant rival WoW's polish then they will need to use something other than P2P.  

I personally cant stand low cost games because of all the bots and farmers.  While its not 100%, P2P games seem to have less botting and immature players.  I cant stand being nickel and dimed for the extras.  Cashshop for cosmetics is fine, but they way GW2 played their cashshop is the reason i quit playing.  When GW2 was in development they kept saying the cashshop was not going to give anyone an edge over other players.  when the game was released and the cashshop was functional......i realized they were full of $hit.  In GW2 you can literally buy gold and gems and in turn gear up.  its not the top tier gear but its close enough to piss me off.  

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2638

110100100

1/29/13 9:19:16 PM#319

i would prefer a sub model for a high budget AAA mmo like this but i do think they need to prepare for a mass exodus after people inevitably leave the game after a few months.

i have no problem with them switching to a F2P model after that as long as there is still a subscription option.

i will not play a gimped watered down version of a game i want to play.

if its B2P like GW2 without restrictions, fine but other than that i want it to have a sub.

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 487

1/30/13 10:08:54 PM#320
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Destai
Originally posted by Aeonblades
P2P Subscription. It's the best way to avoid 75% of MMO asshats.

Or set it up for failure. It's not viable, the proof is in the amount of failures we've seen. It's an unnecessary barrier to entry.

All that proves is that if your going with a sub you need to have your ducks in a row come launch, these failiers you mention didnt fail because of the pricing model they failed because the games weren't worth the pricing model, if the procing model was to blame those games would have failed right out the gate rather than sell well and not retain

It's the total package of the game that affects the behavior of the customers. There's more to maintaining subscriptions than "having your ducks in a row". A subscription implies a relationship, with a price floor. If a potential customer is already in a commitment with another subscription game, they might not want to leave that. Personally, I wouldn't want to. I certainly don't speak for all consumers, but I'm sure others share my sentiment and those people are also potential customers. If you remove that barrier to the game, consumers would be more comfortable buying a game, trying it out, and moving on. No other genre has such a dilemma with price models. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

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