Originally posted by Nikopol

Originally posted by GrayGhost79
As a PvPer I truly hope never to see PvP in Neverwinter. I'm looking at the game for 2 things and 2 things only. The Foundry and PvE. 

Gotta agree. Those are the two things that will make me try this game.

I don't think of PVP when I think of D&D. If they make the PVE fun and the dungeon runs actually exciting, that'll do.

Once you get tired of PvE and your twiddling your thumbs you'll welcome PvP.  PvP is a major pillar in any MMO, no reason not to include it.  All the nay sayers always bring up how their PvE is impacted which is utter horse shit as I've seen more nerfs come from PvE reasons than because of PvP.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by BitterClinger

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Dihoru
D&D in the traditional sense of the universe is a PVE table top game, to have an MMO version of D&D with pvp elements would be... tearing the skin off D&D and slapping it on something else for the hell of it. This change while it will piss many people off (AN MMO WITHOUT PVP?!?! CAREBEAR HEAVEN!) it could allow for more PVE polish, perhaps a smarter AI which will challenge people beyond what a average level PVPer could ( I dream I know).

Except (and I seem to be bringing this up a lot lately) D&D is subject to the creative whims of the DM. Gary Gygax himself even stated that DM's should feel free to add to the game, throw out bits, etc.

So with that thinking in mind, any version of D&D that included pvp would fall under that same logic.

As a point of note, sometimes, in my campaigns, there would be pvp.

The only Canon for D&D is that the players and the DM are free to create their own canon.

Everything you say is true, and PVP can be used to create some great campaign scenarios.

The problem start coming when the message boards get flooded with gamers complaining about class balance. I don't know about the latest ruleset (4.5 is it?), but at no time since 1st edition and through 3rd edition have the classes been "balanced" for solo gameplay. So, while you can certainly run campaigns where there is only one player, a good DM is probably going to have to do some tweaking depending on the player's selected class.

That's true and I'm not sure what the answer is there. MY answer to the players would be "deal with it". The classes are what they are.

Then again, if the idea of D&D is to alter the game to suit the needs of the players/campaign/creative ideas of the DM then it's possible that the classes can be altered.

I never altered any classes in my games but I did throw out a lot of dice rolling as it tended to get in the way of flowing cohesive storytelling.

hmmm, and come to think of it, I actually I had several sessions with solo players. It easily can be done. I don't really think of D&D as solely a "group" game but as a game where one presents an interactive story to one or many players.

People bitch that their class was ruined for "PvP" balance when in reality more nerfs come from PvE justification just as much if not more.  People on the forums keep on singing this tune and it ever gets tiresome.  Or that the fail to see that their class is still as viable as the others, now that it's not the OP class anymore the QQ over it.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Nikopol

Originally posted by GrayGhost79
As a PvPer I truly hope never to see PvP in Neverwinter. I'm looking at the game for 2 things and 2 things only. The Foundry and PvE. 

Gotta agree. Those are the two things that will make me try this game.

I don't think of PVP when I think of D&D. If they make the PVE fun and the dungeon runs actually exciting, that'll do.

Once you get tired of PvE and your twiddling your thumbs you'll welcome PvP.  PvP is a major pillar in any MMO, no reason not to include it.  All the nay sayers always bring up how their PvE is impacted which is utter horse shit as I've seen more nerfs come from PvE reasons than because of PvP.

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

i agree.. while i did do PVP in Rift for a good while i wonder how much better and bigger the PVE side could of been had they not had to put so many resources into PVP. I'd honestly welcome them dumping PVP if it means more resources on other parts of the game like the foundry..

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Nikopol

Originally posted by GrayGhost79
As a PvPer I truly hope never to see PvP in Neverwinter. I'm looking at the game for 2 things and 2 things only. The Foundry and PvE. 

Gotta agree. Those are the two things that will make me try this game.

I don't think of PVP when I think of D&D. If they make the PVE fun and the dungeon runs actually exciting, that'll do.

Once you get tired of PvE and your twiddling your thumbs you'll welcome PvP.  PvP is a major pillar in any MMO, no reason not to include it.  All the nay sayers always bring up how their PvE is impacted which is utter horse shit as I've seen more nerfs come from PvE reasons than because of PvP.

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

Actually they are doing it quality and not an afterthought.  Hence why originally it was not included at launch.  PvP is another playstyle, provide a decent well thought out design and it will be fine.  It's not forced but there for those that want a change of pace.  They can still provide a decent quality PvP experiance without being a PvP centric game.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

i agree.. while i did do PVP in Rift for a good while i wonder how much better and bigger the PVE side could of been had they not had to put so many resources into PVP. I'd honestly welcome them dumping PVP if it means more resources on other parts of the game like the foundry..

Or it would have absolutely zero impact upon the game or one can simpely counter with that if Rift actually invested significantly into PvP then the game would have been much better.  Bigger teams does not necessarily equate to better quality.  If that's the case then WoW or SWTOR would have been the grandest games of all time and not the POSs that they are.  At least for SWTOR, WoW is decent or relatively good but not near as grand as your philosophy would state.

Rift's PvP had issues starting with beta.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

i agree.. while i did do PVP in Rift for a good while i wonder how much better and bigger the PVE side could of been had they not had to put so many resources into PVP. I'd honestly welcome them dumping PVP if it means more resources on other parts of the game like the foundry..

Or it would have absolutely zero impact upon the game or one can simpely counter with that if Rift actually invested significantly into PvP then the game would have been much better.  Bigger teams does not necessarily equate to better quality.  If that's the case then WoW or SWTOR would have been the grandest games of all time and not the POSs that they are.  At least for SWTOR, WoW is decent or relatively good but not near as grand as your philosophy would state.

Rift's PvP had issues starting with beta.

it was obvious from BETA Rift was a more PVE focused game.. any game that has a heavy PVE focus such as Rift, swtor, TSW ect imho are better off without pvp.. of course people enjoy it and play it but just my opinion i feel they put to much energy into these "tack on" pvp aspects of the game... and yes its true more resources does not automatically equal better content.. but it does give more resources on said content..

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by cwliias

Everything pertaining to PVP on the website and here has been removed, i know they postponed release so they could release the game with PVP.... But now they dumped the whole thing?

 

Am i wrong? hope so

 Uh you have it around the wrong way. They always said it would not release with PvP, and that they would add it in later.

No you have it wrong.  Originally yes, but in Nov/Dec they announced that PvP will be included at launch or was it earlier when the product was delayed?  Either way they did say PvP will be included at launch.

No, you have it wrong. Per http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/6374/Neverwinter-PostPAX-Interview.html and http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/07/e3-2012-hands-on-with-neverwinter-combat/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29 and .. Well, every source I can find, and I've been following it pretty closely. Now, I know it's pretty bold just to start making a bunch of posts on a forum bullying people and asserting my correctness so I do try to provide some evidence when I start telling people they're wrong. Maybe you have some links to the contrary? Maybe any dev post AT ALL supporting what you're saying? I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

Originally posted by Thane

Originally posted by Kabaal
People should be glad. PvP has never been Cryptics strong point, it's always just tacked on as an afterthought and their attempts at balancing would be funny if they weren't so bad.

actually pvp was never any mmos strong point so far (okai, maybe daoc's).

having instanced battlegrounds without any real meaning to the game's advancement is nothing you should be proud of imo ^^

I guess you haven't played many MMOs. UO EVE DAOC Shadowbane and WAR to name a few.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

When I want PvP I go to games that have either designed the game around PvP or at least have invested a great deal of time in the PvP system. 

Games that don't focus on PvP or simply tac on some sort of PvP system don't really give me much of any of that good old PvP joy. 

And no, PvP being an after thought is not a major pillar of any MMO. They've sunk a great deal of time into the PvE and Foundry system, those should be nice to see. They haven't from the sounds of things done the same for PvP, so I simply would rather not see it. 

i agree.. while i did do PVP in Rift for a good while i wonder how much better and bigger the PVE side could of been had they not had to put so many resources into PVP. I'd honestly welcome them dumping PVP if it means more resources on other parts of the game like the foundry..

Or it would have absolutely zero impact upon the game or one can simpely counter with that if Rift actually invested significantly into PvP then the game would have been much better.  Bigger teams does not necessarily equate to better quality.  If that's the case then WoW or SWTOR would have been the grandest games of all time and not the POSs that they are.  At least for SWTOR, WoW is decent or relatively good but not near as grand as your philosophy would state.

Rift's PvP had issues starting with beta.

it was obvious from BETA Rift was a more PVE focused game.. any game that has a heavy PVE focus such as Rift, swtor, TSW ect imho are better off without pvp.. of course people enjoy it and play it but just my opinion i feel they put to much energy into these "tack on" pvp aspects of the game... and yes its true more resources does not automatically equal better content.. but it does give more resources on said content..

I don't agree with that statment at all. Right from day one,  Wpvp was alive in RIFT. It was the best Wpvp game of the kind. PvP quest, fighting over RIFTs, Player run 3v3 tournaments, then PvP rifts. I played for 10 months, nothing but PvP. Leveled both toon through pvp. Everyone around me was the same. It seemed like there was only a handfull of people raiding at the time.

I never did a raid in RIFT even though I heard they were good. There was just so much pvp going on daily, I didn't have time.

More is better than less. I hope they work it out.

It seems pretty plain to me that splitting PvE and PvP into different games makes for a better experience for the type of gamer that likes one but not the other.  Certainly there is a class of gamer who likes to get a little chocolate in their peanut butter but I think it goes a bit far to say that PvP is a pillar of MMOs.

Personally, I'd like to see a game developed for arena battle MMO play where the focus could be on balancing for PvP without the need to bow to the needs of PvE.  I would also LOVE a game where the PvE balance wasn't subject to the vagaries of PvP's needs.

Long story short, I don't believe that an MMO needs to have every facet of play that every other MMO previous to it's release has come up with.  I'd rather see a game that really focuses on fewer (possibly only one) aspect of the genre and does it exceptionally well.  This isn't to say that the games out there now are bad, but rather, that it is ok to make (and want) a game that fills a smaller niche.

Originally posted by Dihoru
D&D in the traditional sense of the universe is a PVE table top game, to have an MMO version of D&D with pvp elements would be... tearing the skin off D&D and slapping it on something else for the hell of it. This change while it will piss many people off (AN MMO WITHOUT PVP?!?! CAREBEAR HEAVEN!) it could allow for more PVE polish, perhaps a smarter AI which will challenge people beyond what a average level PVPer could ( I dream I know).

Eh? I'm sorry, but nothing, not a single in D&D makes it impossible to have PvP in it. It won't be balanced PvP, but then again D&D was never about balance anyways. Back during the BioWare's NwN I had great time playing on RP server, with proper DM and an active Underdark vs Surface PvP aspect. 

Originally posted by salanae

could be good to have a game focusing on PvE.

there is too many games focusing on PvP lately, or trying (and failing) to do both.

 

I don't wanna ruffle feathers but I hope they did. Too many game launches or the months after launch have been ruined on games that launched with pvp first. It seems they don't want to allocate the resources to properly balance the game without directly affecting pve in games. I experienced it in Cata in wow which made me leave that game, and now In GW2 the title that was specifically supposed to separate the coded behaviors and damage ratios between pvp and pve so the respeccing nightmare I went through on wow wouldn't happen.

I hope they leave it out entirely honestly pve games have suffered long enough just so some nerd can gank someone somewhere in his mom's basement.

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by cwliias

Everything pertaining to PVP on the website and here has been removed, i know they postponed release so they could release the game with PVP.... But now they dumped the whole thing?

 

Am i wrong? hope so

 Uh you have it around the wrong way. They always said it would not release with PvP, and that they would add it in later.

No you have it wrong.  Originally yes, but in Nov/Dec they announced that PvP will be included at launch or was it earlier when the product was delayed?  Either way they did say PvP will be included at launch.

No, you have it wrong. Per http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/6374/Neverwinter-PostPAX-Interview.html and http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/07/e3-2012-hands-on-with-neverwinter-combat/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29 and .. Well, every source I can find, and I've been following it pretty closely. Now, I know it's pretty bold just to start making a bunch of posts on a forum bullying people and asserting my correctness so I do try to provide some evidence when I start telling people they're wrong. Maybe you have some links to the contrary? Maybe any dev post AT ALL supporting what you're saying? I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

How bout oh..... actually looking at the official site forums or watch vids that stated this instead of using your minimal knowledge to pass off misinformation, or lack of in this case, as fact.  Go to the FAQ in the offical forums and find the section starting that PvP will be included at launch.  Here's a hint "Robust PvP" look for that in the New User FAQ in the official forums.  Ask any follower of NW and they will tell you that PvP is included at launch, unless they recently changed that.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by cwliias

Everything pertaining to PVP on the website and here has been removed, i know they postponed release so they could release the game with PVP.... But now they dumped the whole thing?

 

Am i wrong? hope so

 Uh you have it around the wrong way. They always said it would not release with PvP, and that they would add it in later.

No you have it wrong.  Originally yes, but in Nov/Dec they announced that PvP will be included at launch or was it earlier when the product was delayed?  Either way they did say PvP will be included at launch.

No, you have it wrong. Per http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/6374/Neverwinter-PostPAX-Interview.html and http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/07/e3-2012-hands-on-with-neverwinter-combat/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29 and .. Well, every source I can find, and I've been following it pretty closely. Now, I know it's pretty bold just to start making a bunch of posts on a forum bullying people and asserting my correctness so I do try to provide some evidence when I start telling people they're wrong. Maybe you have some links to the contrary? Maybe any dev post AT ALL supporting what you're saying? I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

How bout oh..... actually looking at the official site forums or watch vids that stated this instead of using your minimal knowledge to pass off misinformation, or lack of in this case, as fact.  Go to the FAQ in the offical forums and find the section starting that PvP will be included at launch.  Here's a hint "Robust PvP" look for that in the New User FAQ in the official forums.  Ask any follower of NW and they will tell you that PvP is included at launch, unless they recently changed that.

Is it easier to post insults rather than a link?

The faq you told me to go to has this... 

Q: What is Neverwinter?

Neverwinter is a free, action MMORPG based on the acclaimed Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game. Epic stories, action combat and classic roleplaying await those heroes courageous enough to enter the fantastic world of Neverwinter!

Explore and defend one of the most beloved cities from the Dungeons & Dragons Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting as it rises from the ashes of destruction. This immersive MMORPG will take you from the besieged walls of the city to subterranean passageways in search of forgotten secrets and lost treasure.

Q: What is Dungeons & Dragons?

D&D is a fantasy roleplaying game first published in 1974. The game allows players to role play the part of an adventuresome hero in a setting rich with details and perilous encounters. D&D is widely regarded as the beginning of the modern roleplaying game. For more information on D&D and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, visit the official web site.

Q: When is Neverwinter's release date?

Neverwinter is scheduled to be released in Early 2013. Make sure to Registerand sign up for the official Neverwinter newsletter to be among the first to know the exact release date!

Q: What are the System Requirements for Neverwinter?

The full system requirements for Neverwinter have not yet been determined. Check back here for details!

Q: Is an Internet connection required to play Neverwinter?

Yes.

Q: How much will Neverwinter cost? Will there be a subscription required?

Neverwinter will be a free-to-play game. There will be no cost for the client, and no subscription fee will be required.

Q: I'm interested in being a beta tester for Neverwinter. Where do I sign up?

When you for Neverwinter, you are automatically added to the pool of potential beta testers. You will be notified if you are selected to participate in beta testing.

Q: Will I be able to make my own adventures and play through them with my friends?

Yes! It wouldn't be a true Neverwinter game without a content-creation tool! Players will be able to shape and add to the world of Neverwinter by creating and building their own adventures or full-fledged campaigns from the ground up using The Foundry for Neverwinter.

Q: What is The Foundry?

The Foundry for Neverwinter is your chance to craft the world of Neverwinter your way. A robust and powerful toolset, you can use The Foundry for Neverwinter to create and build new adventures and campaigns to share with your friends and the entire Neverwinter community. Learn more by visiting The Foundry info page.

Q: Tell me about Neverwinter's developer, Cryptic Studios.

Cryptic Studios is a leading developer of massively-multiplayer online roleplaying games. Past releases include City of Heroes and City of Villains, the first superhero-based MMORPG; Champions Online: Free for All, the first free-to-play superhero action MMORPG; and Star Trek Online, the hit MMO based in the rich Star Trek Universe.

Heres a link: http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/faq

I didn't read "PvP will be in at Launch"

So... where else should I check? You have links to back up your info or just insults?

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by cwliias

Everything pertaining to PVP on the website and here has been removed, i know they postponed release so they could release the game with PVP.... But now they dumped the whole thing?

 

Am i wrong? hope so

 Uh you have it around the wrong way. They always said it would not release with PvP, and that they would add it in later.

No you have it wrong.  Originally yes, but in Nov/Dec they announced that PvP will be included at launch or was it earlier when the product was delayed?  Either way they did say PvP will be included at launch.

No, you have it wrong. Per http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/6374/Neverwinter-PostPAX-Interview.html and http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/07/e3-2012-hands-on-with-neverwinter-combat/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29 and .. Well, every source I can find, and I've been following it pretty closely. Now, I know it's pretty bold just to start making a bunch of posts on a forum bullying people and asserting my correctness so I do try to provide some evidence when I start telling people they're wrong. Maybe you have some links to the contrary? Maybe any dev post AT ALL supporting what you're saying? I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

How bout oh..... actually looking at the official site forums or watch vids that stated this instead of using your minimal knowledge to pass off misinformation, or lack of in this case, as fact.  Go to the FAQ in the offical forums and find the section starting that PvP will be included at launch.  Here's a hint "Robust PvP" look for that in the New User FAQ in the official forums.  Ask any follower of NW and they will tell you that PvP is included at launch, unless they recently changed that.

Hey, thanks for your arrogant insults. I'm sure you've shown just how warranted your quaint little verbal barbs are be linking to exactly 1 credible source? Perhaps I'm supposed to be too awed by your forum warrior skills and too distraught by my limited intellect to notice that you e do e nothing but make arrogant personal attacks because someone dared to ask you for evidence to disinformation that you are spewing that contradicts everything out there. Now please, just an adult and post a link to your proof.  I love pvp. I want it to be in at launch. I want you to be right. Prove it instead of these lame ad hominems and unproven claims. 

It's in.

Here's a new user faq on NW forums : link

Originally posted by SavageHorizon
This is great news if true.

 I second that

I dont see what the big deal is in having both PvE and PvP.  I think with the ARPG combat style PvP would be a blast if it was done properly.  PvE content is fun , but alot of the times gets repetitive and boring.  PvP is laways action packed and every  fight is always different.  So you get tired of grinding Rep or collecting MATS. Go jump in some PvP for awhile. Kill , be killed all in good fun.

Of coarse this is just my opnion , and my  opnion is based off of the fact I enjoy playing both. In any case having the option to do both couldn't hurt ...right?

Originally posted by Keller

It's

Here's a new user faq on NW forums : link

Thanks for the link. I checked it out and it's an unofficial FAQ made by a fan. The pvp info he is referencing appears to be coming from an interview with athene and  a comic con interview. I watched both and found nothing to support it would be in at release. Like I said, I want it to be in, so please link me just one interview where a dev says it will be. 

The FAQ is by a mod, not a fan so that is my mistake, I do apologize  I'm still unconvinced because he does say the FAQ is unofficial and I still cannot find a link to a dev saying it will be in at release. I just can't trust one source that labels itself as unofficial when there is so much information to the contrary directly from the devs. It does make me more hopeful im wrong since the guy is a P moderator. I just ave to heàr it for myself