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World of Warcraft

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General Discussion  » Finally came back to wow and played MoP

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54 posts found
  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1647

1/18/13 4:29:39 PM#41

I completely stopped playing wow when they added quest tracks. Back then, we used website to complete our quests. For every quest, i tried to complete them without seeking help. If its too hard, i use a website to complete it instead. Now, with the track system, it does not feel like an RPG anymore and thats why i hate wow so much right now.

 

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  Beanpuie

Elite Member

Joined: 6/15/07
Posts: 806

1/18/13 4:38:16 PM#42
Originally posted by dcrose001
Awesome, so blizz actually made a game that ppl with little to no skill play EVEN easier. This is good game? Combat in WoW in a nutshell: " Oh i see a mob, click auto attack, get up ,go get a latte, come back, mob is dead" wooot i feel leet. This explains why when wow babies come to AoC we have to spoon feed them , " what i have to actually DO something to kill a mob"

 

Spoon feed them... as in chopping their heads off the moment they step into white sands then tell them whats is best in life?

  Shadoed

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/03
Posts: 1480

1/21/13 5:59:09 AM#43
Originally posted by Realbigdeal

I completely stopped playing wow when they added quest tracks. Back then, we used website to complete our quests. For every quest, i tried to complete them without seeking help. If its too hard, i use a website to complete it instead. Now, with the track system, it does not feel like an RPG anymore and thats why i hate wow so much right now.

 

Sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever?!?

So you are annoyed that they added a system in game to help you along with quests (which can be turned off) but if you ever got stuck you would look at external sources anyway?

Going back to the original point of this thread, why are returning players from many moons ago so surprised that the game has changed so much and it isn't the game they remember? The reason for this is that the game has not evolved with the players that left in mind, it has evolved for the players that stayed and that did tend to be the casual crowd which makes sense as they are the people that stayed, paid and played.

I am a vanilla player and have seen the game change so much over the years but as i have never been into raiding so much since vanilla/BC the changes have not caused me too much pain.

It was what it was and it is what it is now, if it isn't the game for you any more then just remember the old days fondly and move on, for the rest of us there is still an enjoyable game to be played.

It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  Aethaeryn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 1870

1/21/13 6:24:59 AM#44
Originally posted by nukempro
 Removing class trainers? How does being forced to run back to capital city every lvl make the game better? 

What they have been doing is removing elements that make the game feel like a world.  I understand trying to make the game more accessable but at some point it stops being an RPG and starts turning into a lobby game.  

I remember before BC getting a key for a gate from a quest.  It meant that you could travel much faster.  There was a feeling of accomplishment by getting that key.  Then they just added a flight path over it (yet kept the quest in for some reason).

Dungeon Finder was another step.  These things killed world PvP.  No one traveled across the land and no one had to meet up anywhere.   You used to fly somewhere and then mount up and head out with a group.   You could run into things on the way.   Unless all you like to do is dungeons / raids they might as well make the game have offline play and I wouldn't doubt if that was next.

I get that travel time sucks and was used as a time sink but they have gone to far the other way.  I get from your post that you could care less about that stuff.   Some of us did.  Even as a casual player now I miss those things.  They have made leveling so quick that each world area is more like a drive by.  

Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 607

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

1/21/13 6:27:01 AM#45
Originally posted by trash656

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

 

We've had this discussion a few times but what the hell...

Clearly you haven't actually spent anytime really playing MOP, how do I know this? Because you rolled out the usual, 'it's a dumbed down version of the talent system, games were better in the good old days', lazy argument that all the internet badasses on here do to show how, 'hip', they are.

What's actually better, dumping five talent points into a hit rating talent that you only notice in gearing terms or actually choosing an ability that affects your playstyle? Are you also suggesting that visiitng a class trainer was a, 'feature'? Honestly it's laughable. Please do list all the other, 'features', that have been cut from the game and if you say, 'attunement quests', then you really are looking out of rose tinted specs.

The problem with the talent system is that many of the choices you make towards the end of the trees are just very clunky and only situation utility wise for many classes or just completely change how you play which is jarring at lv90, (Mages for instance). They made these changes so you'd actually change talents around for certain fights. A good idea but it doesn't quite work yet IMO.

The other big problem is dailies, this made me not bother anymore, (there at lv90 so just take my word on this). Sticking valor rewards behind factions you have to daily grind was just an idiotic decision decided to cockblock anyone who enjoys alts or just likes the raiding/dungeon scene.  They'll be more dailies as well in 5.2 and although there won't be gear upgrades from the faction and with the removal of the item upgrader, (new feature) nor any new dungeons,, many are wondering how there suppose to gear up for the new raid.  

Oh yes, the LFR, that's the solution. Don't get me started on that.....   

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

1/23/13 7:20:32 AM#46

So, OP.

Did you like in Vanilla the fact that if you wanted to train Enchanting at high level, you had to go to Uldaman, cause the only master enchanter trainer was there? I didn't. It was a pointless waste of time. Now there are profession trainers everywhere.

Did you like the fact that ALL epic mounts were just recoloring of the normal mounts (beside the Forsaken ones which were kickass?) I didn't. Now epic mounts look epic.

Did you like the fact that a mage played exactly the same, no matter the "spec", to about around level 40-45? I hated it. Now your spec start at level 10 and it makes the game RADICALLY different even inside the same class (ie: warlock demonologist plays completely different from any other warlocks for example).

Did you liked the fact that you needed 40 people for a raid, needed goddamn flasks for all? food? Took hours? then the logistic of it all bein a nightmare so that most people did not bother? (FACT, only 1% of people ever saw Naxxramas, often considered the best Raid of the Vanilla era) I did not. I much like smaller things with less logistic to consider and more fun in my sessions, thank you very much (FACT: much more than 1% of the players have seen Dragon Soul thanks to the LFR, you might not like it but it is making so that Blizzard devs are not working for the top 1% anymore, which is a win in my book). You say you are 32. I'm 35, my time is limited and precious, I do not want to spend hours in minutiae, I do that at work already.

Did you really like going back to town to train? I did not care one way or the other. You still have to go back to town to craft, so there is still a push to congregate in cities.

Did you really like the fact that you HAD to be Resto as a druid (and you were just an innervate on a stick), HAD to be Holy as paladin, Warrior TANKS were the only one really worthy of the name etc etc? I didn't. I loved my druid, nobody wanted him cause he was a bear. Now Class balance is much better with all specs, more or less, useful and played. Class Balance will never be done, btw, but you can be any class, any spec and you will be useful to a raid.

I could go on. What is the purpose of this post? To show that Vanilla is often seen through nostalgia glasses. The flaws are just forgotten. Hey, so you do not like MoP and you prefer Vanilla, ok, it is your right to have an opinion, but when the basis of that opinion is "class trainers", "40 men raids" and "dumbed down talents" then I will react to it.

On the talents, many have already spoken. My 2 cents is that you cannot just look at the talents, you must look at the spec system and the glyphs as well, cause it was divided between those (and yes, I DO agree that 6 choices + glyphs + 1 spec are a bit little, could be more, could be done better, I am not trying to tell you MoP is perfect..).

Many of the obvious choices (someone mentioned shadow form for shadow priests) is now a spec ability that you get at XX level. Glyphs are also used to diverify your character and honestly.... they made away with mixing trees back in Cataclysm (or was it Northrend?) to make things clearer and simpler, yes. So that people would not auto-gimp themselves with not optimal talent choices. Complexity != Depth. Depth is about the meaningful choices you have in the game, Complexity is how hard is the game to play. Poor talent choices is complexity. 34 different classes, all with different play styles, is Depth.

Same thing for end game choices. Used to be Raid or  open world PvP. Now it is Raid (3 difficulty levels), PvP, (Pet Battles, they do not really give you gear, they are their own separate thing), Dailies until you die, Challenge Dungeons, Scenarios, Battlegrounds, Arena.. prolly forgot one or two. Nothing stop you from mixing and marching ofc.

 

 

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

1/23/13 7:46:49 AM#47
Originally posted by Volkmar

So, OP.

Did you like in Vanilla the fact that if you wanted to train Enchanting at high level, you had to go to Uldaman, cause the only master enchanter trainer was there? I didn't. It was a pointless waste of time. Now there are profession trainers everywhere.

Yes I did

Did you like the fact that ALL epic mounts were just recoloring of the normal mounts (beside the Forsaken ones which were kickass?) I didn't. Now epic mounts look epic.

Yes I did, though to be fair i played 700 hours as an undead priest

Did you like the fact that a mage played exactly the same, no matter the "spec", to about around level 40-45? I hated it. Now your spec start at level 10 and it makes the game RADICALLY different even inside the same class (ie: warlock demonologist plays completely different from any other warlocks for example).

Was priest, brother was mage, he disagrees with you saying "that guy was bad"

Did you liked the fact that you needed 40 people for a raid, needed goddamn flasks for all? food? Took hours? then the logistic of it all bein a nightmare so that most people did not bother? (FACT, only 1% of people ever saw Naxxramas, often considered the best Raid of the Vanilla era) I did not. I much like smaller things with less logistic to consider and more fun in my sessions, thank you very much (FACT: much more than 1% of the players have seen Dragon Soul thanks to the LFR, you might not like it but it is making so that Blizzard devs are not working for the top 1% anymore, which is a win in my book). You say you are 32. I'm 35, my time is limited and precious, I do not want to spend hours in minutiae, I do that at work already.

I managed to kill 1 boss in Naxx before we got to close to expac for our guild to care. Then they destroyed 40 man raiding.  Our server had 3 guilds just starting Naxx, 1 alliance, and 2 horde.

Did you really like going back to town to train? I did not care one way or the other. You still have to go back to town to craft, so there is still a push to congregate in cities.

Yes I liked having to go to town to do town things.

Did you really like the fact that you HAD to be Resto as a druid (and you were just an innervate on a stick), HAD to be Holy as paladin, Warrior TANKS were the only one really worthy of the name etc etc? I didn't. I loved my druid, nobody wanted him cause he was a bear. Now Class balance is much better with all specs, more or less, useful and played. Class Balance will never be done, btw, but you can be any class, any spec and you will be useful to a raid.

Certain classes were broken at times (poor poor paladins), but in the 40 man system there was always room for some unique flowers.  My guild had me tank Ony as a shadow priest just to say we had done it. (Vanilla days) They also had me spec shadow and group with the warlocks for PEW PEW PEW awesomesauce. (i liked being MT healer and was class leader. Each week we switched which priest was shadow)

I could go on. What is the purpose of this post? To show that Vanilla is often seen through nostalgia glasses. The flaws are just forgotten. Hey, so you do not like MoP and you prefer Vanilla, ok, it is your right to have an opinion, but when the basis of that opinion is "class trainers", "40 men raids" and "dumbed down talents" then I will react to it.

Vanilla was better.

On the talents, many have already spoken. My 2 cents is that you cannot just look at the talents, you must look at the spec system and the glyphs as well, cause it was divided between those (and yes, I DO agree that 6 choices + glyphs + 1 spec are a bit little, could be more, could be done better, I am not trying to tell you MoP is perfect..).

Many of the obvious choices (someone mentioned shadow form for shadow priests) is now a spec ability that you get at XX level. Glyphs are also used to diverify your character and honestly.... they made away with mixing trees back in Cataclysm (or was it Northrend?) to make things clearer and simpler, yes. So that people would not auto-gimp themselves with not optimal talent choices. Complexity != Depth. Depth is about the meaningful choices you have in the game, Complexity is how hard is the game to play. Poor talent choices is complexity. 34 different classes, all with different play styles, is Depth.

Same thing for end game choices. Used to be Raid or  open world PvP. Now it is Raid (3 difficulty levels), PvP, (Pet Battles, they do not really give you gear, they are their own separate thing), Dailies until you die, Challenge Dungeons, Scenarios, Battlegrounds, Arena.. prolly forgot one or two. Nothing stop you from mixing and marching ofc.

 

 

 

  User Deleted
1/23/13 8:14:33 AM#48

For anyone out there itching to taste MoP.... get the damn free trial and roll a Pandaren whatever.  You will see all the stuff you will need to see right in the starter zone.  Level it up to 20... will take a day at most.  Repeat it once with another Pandaren character.  If, after having done this twice, you feel MoP is exciting and new... buy the damn game, but only after doing the Pandaren starter zone atleast twice.  This will prepapre you for life at level 90.  You can even try out the bet battles.  So basically all that is new in MoP is playable in the free starter edition.

Warning: Don't bother trying PVP unless you are a rogue or a hunter... you're stuck in the 20-24 twink bracket.  They outlevel you, they outgear you, and most importantly, PVP in the lower levels is woefully unbalanced.  LOL, if you think PVP is unbalanced at 90, try it at level 20... as something other than a rogue or a hunter.

 

  Keora

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 4

1/23/13 10:54:49 AM#49
Originally posted by trash656

The original WoW, and Burning Crusade Raids were much more difficult then they are now.

I had to jump in just to reply to this. First, I don't see how you can claim this after only just returning to the game, especially with the current tier already on farm. Secondly, I can assure you that the heroic content is still very much a challenge on average. Some of the hardest tiers ever have been released after TBC.

I also don't mind the class trainer issue. I justify it by just assuming that since my characters get stronger then they're probably talented enough to come up with the spells on their own through their own testing and research.

Some further points that you've made I can agree with, and some others I also disagree with. Ultimately you seem to want WoW to go in a more sandboxy direction and I can support that idea.

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1795

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

1/23/13 11:04:49 AM#50
Originally posted by trash656

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

so, you played wow so you can use ineffective weird talent speccs and run to your class trainer?

seriously, do i need to comment on that???

 

what they did was: 

* advance the talent system to a lvl where you can actually CHOSE between a few skills instead of not being able to chose between many skills because you actually needed to take a specific one to be valuable for your raid.

* remove the "return to xy" requirement on lvl up. it's way faster now, most people dont play for the experience to run to a specific place every hour during lvling

 

and yes, the pet system is exactly what you think it is, pokemon wow style. but. people like it. you dont. fine :)

 

 

from my point  of view this game is STILL fun. raids need to be organized propperly (unless you wanna do the dumbed down version, aka LFR, which is basically preparing you for the main raid, that's all).

 

uh, and what sony did with SWG was making it a wow clone(from an open skill based game). so realy, how could wow be a wow clone? wow is wow ^^

 

you dont like it?

that's okai, no reasons are needed for you not to like it i guess. and since you named none that actually make sense we should all be fine here :>

 

but on the other hand, i am playing in the same guild, on the same server, and the same faction since classic (and actually with the same char till MoP). that seems to be unusual too - seeing all the allies comming to horde, all the players guildhopping every 3rd day and so on.

maybe what wow needs to be fun is a working community, which i have in my guild :P

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  iamthekiller

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 99

1/29/13 10:22:28 AM#51
Originally posted by pmiles

For anyone out there itching to taste MoP.... get the damn free trial and roll a Pandaren whatever.  You will see all the stuff you will need to see right in the starter zone.  Level it up to 20... will take a day at most.  Repeat it once with another Pandaren character.  If, after having done this twice, you feel MoP is exciting and new... buy the damn game, but only after doing the Pandaren starter zone atleast twice.  This will prepapre you for life at level 90.  You can even try out the bet battles.  So basically all that is new in MoP is playable in the free starter edition.

Warning: Don't bother trying PVP unless you are a rogue or a hunter... you're stuck in the 20-24 twink bracket.  They outlevel you, they outgear you, and most importantly, PVP in the lower levels is woefully unbalanced.  LOL, if you think PVP is unbalanced at 90, try it at level 20... as something other than a rogue or a hunter.

 

Interesting so doing the Pandaran starting area twice somehow is the same thing as exploring an entirely new continent? All the new content? What about the 2 new BG's? What about the new dungeons and the new raids? What about the hundreds of quests that deliver the story?

What the trial shows you is the panda starting area..the panda race..and perhaps the monk class at low lvls. And it's really not good rep of the class, meeting them at lvl 90 pvp is much better rep. A week after hitting lvl 90 im geared for LFR, I just did Heroics and I started doing dailys as well but only when Im waiting for ques. I don't grind them out like so mad man, i just do em whenever. The people who have issue with dailys are obssessed with WOW and can't fathom taking it easy...they MUST CONSUME ALL CONTENT!!!

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11273

1/29/13 10:24:45 AM#52
Originally posted by iamthekiller

What the trial shows you is the panda starting area..the panda race..and perhaps the monk class at low lvls.

trial has no access to Monks or DKs

  Manestream

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/03
Posts: 561

1/29/13 10:33:13 AM#53

Unfortunatly, I will also have to agree with the OP on this. I also returned to WoW after a 5/6 month break (3rd one since wow had released) and i had been playing sw-tor uptill it went f2p (however it had also become rather boring too). Anyways after returning and inputting a 60 day timecard for WoW and getting MoP this time round I have not played as much, it has not gripped me at all like it did back in its day. Yes the game has succumbed to time and being toned down to nothing.

Still worth playing but not for long periods of time, I was waiting on the new Darkfall game to come out but after hearing about it already from several sources I dont think I am going to bother with it now. So will just hope and wait for something decent to come along (as per usuall) but doubt anything will.

  snoop101

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 389

2/09/13 12:46:13 PM#54

I agree  with the OP 100%

 

IMO Blizz would get so many more subs back if they make legacy servers. I would sub in a heart beat if they made Vannila or BC servers. 

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